Scare me, please.

This is probably a shot in the dark, but what the heck. Maybe I'll learn something useful from posting this. Maybe not. Anyway, as I've said before, I've struggled with an eating disorder for a long time, and am currently diagnosed as AN-R (anorexia nervosa-restricting type). I've been in therapy again since December--and I'm steadily getting worse. I went into therapy wanting to get better, but for whatever reason, I have kept cutting down what I eat. Today, for instance, I had about 500 calories if I'm rounding up--and most of those calories were soda. When I first started therapy, I was around a 1000/day if not slightly more. My 'homework' since my last appointment is to eat 1000 calories a day at absolute minimum (since 1500/day proved to be unattainable).

Problem is, when I do that, I feel like a failure. Even though doing so wouldn't be failing it would be the opposite. Which I already understand and accept as being true. And yet, still I do the opposite. Point being: I have a problem with intellectualizing. Oh, and with being flippant.

Why am I getting worse? I know it isn't logical, I know that I need to eat. I keep freaking out at myself because I can't fight it. I don't want to start looking obviously sick again. I've already lost over 20 pounds since December--and I wasn't fat to begin with. Now, I'm nearing that point where if I lose more weight I'll look like something is seriously wrong with me. I have been on/off obsessively recording my daily calories. I even caved and weighed myself for the first time in years, the other day. And although I was very pleased at the weight loss, I still felt fat even though I logically know that I am not. It's ridiculous--I shouldn't have even stepped on the scale. The call of the one ring was too strong.

Is this kind of thing normal for therapy? To get worse, first? My therapist keeps telling me I need to eat--and I know he's right. I want to do the right thing, I just feel like I can't. I know I can think my way out of this, because I've done it before. But it's just so enticing because starvation feels so focused. I want this to stop. I don't want to do this anymore.

Someone, please scare me. Don't sugar coat anything. Let me hear the worst. I need to wake up.

Keep it up and you will die.

I am sorry and wish you the best

a reply to: rukia

What worse. We succeed and fail. And we will die. Sucks but we move on.

a reply to: rukia

For your therapist to be saying 'you need to eat'...is umm...brilliant!

Obviously that is what you need. It sounds as if some long term, perhaps residential treatment would help you.

It's a control issue in most cases and this is something that you can control, maybe?

You are killing your body by starving yourself one cell and body function and organ at a time.

Your hair will fall out eventually and your teeth.

Your eyesight will suffer permanent damage and if you are vomiting/purging along with the starvation there is damage being done to your esophagus that is irreparable.

I totally get it! Now get some real help! IMO

Different therapy/therapist.

Good luck to you!

a reply to: rukia Perhaps you don't take the therapist's advice because you don't like being told what to do? And you feel more in control when you count your calories and consume less than is rational.

What about your muscles? They must be getting weak.
I really hope you figure this out and realize what your healthy weight is.

Maybe 1500 is to big a step.. at least go for 1200.

Think long term effects... think longevity in life.
Do you know why you think you are over weight?...I mean the mental aspect.
I'm guessing you are not overweight and perhaps becoming underweight.

Enjoy food! It tastes good.
Please take good care.

rukia

Okay, I need to preface this by saying: mods, I realize this might violate t&c but bear with me.

Do you live in a medical marijuana state? If so, please, for your own sake, give cannabis a try.

www.vice.com...

There is more research out there regarding this issue. Talk to your therapist and doctor, see what they think. Hopefully it will help you.

a reply to: TNMockingbird

Er, residential treatment has no empirical backing at all and apparently makes people worse. It's quite the conspiracy, actually. I've never done it, nor would I ever. But I did consider it until I did more research.

Honestly, eating is really the only thing I can do, apparently, if I don't want to get worse. The other option is to keep getting sicker. I agree that it sounds like stupid advice, but I think he's right. What else is there for me to do? Not-eating makes my thinking eating-disordered. So to stop that, I need to eat. It makes sense. And yet, it seems like such an overly simple solution for what feels like something so overwhelming.

Basically, it looks like I need to grow a pair and just do it.

a reply to: peppycat

You're right--I don't like being told what to do at all. Good point. I hadn't thought of it like that.

originally posted by: rukia
a reply to: TNMockingbird

Er, residential treatment has no empirical backing at all and apparently makes people worse. It's quite the conspiracy, actually. I've never done it, nor would I ever. But I did consider it until I did more research.

Honestly, eating is really the only thing I can do, apparently, if I don't want to get worse. The other option is to keep getting sicker. I agree that it sounds like stupid advice, but I think he's right. What else is there for me to do? Not-eating makes my thinking eating-disordered. So to stop that, I need to eat. It makes sense. And yet, it seems like such an overly simple solution for what feels like something so overwhelming.

Basically, it looks like I need to grow a pair and just do it.

It's difficult for me, I am battling with my own weight at the moment, but not for the same reasons, although it is still, technically, anorexia nervosa but my manifestation of the disorder is markedly different from yours. I am currently supposed to eat 5000 calories a day (I don't count calories, that is roughly 3 meals a day, plus snacks). I can, on days do that, but if I skip one meal, I am buggered, two and I am on the slippery slope.

So yeah, grow a pair, and just stuff it in, or honest to god, you're going to wear your body out and it won't take anymore, your organs will begin to fail or you will be sectioned, stuck in a hospital and force fed through a tube, whether you like it or not.

Take control before it is taken from you. That's what works for me.

Or you could think of all the children in the world starving to death as we are discussing this,and be grateful that you have access to healthy food-and eat small portions of food about 5 times a day. An apple or banana,some 100% fruit juice (soda is horrendously unhealthy) some steamed veggies,a small chicken breast.Or make a pot of healthy veg soup and consume small amounts through out the day.

There's a lot of healthy foods out there that you can prepare in a healthy way,that will support your health while not causing you to get fat.I get that anorexia is a mental disorder but you are going to have to force yourself to consume Some food every day,otherwise you Will die.Or become so chronically sickly that you will wish you were dead.

I going to be honest with you,Rukia,i do not like you.But i am the mother of a young woman too and i would hate for you to die or damage your body so much that you will have have health problems all your life long.And people who are skeletally thin look ugly.I know your beauty is very important to you-but carry on like this and you will lose your beauty,your health,and eventually your life.And that would be a tragedy,and a completely Preventable tragedy at that.
I really do wish you all the best-and you come across as a tenacious,determined even stubborn young woman.Use that,to help yourself.No one else can!

originally posted by: Raxoxane
Or you could think of all the children in the world starving to death as we are discussing this,and be grateful that you have access to healthy food-and eat small portions of food about 5 times a day. An apple or banana,some 100% fruit juice (soda is horrendously unhealthy) some steamed veggies,a small chicken breast.Or make a pot of healthy veg soup and consume small amounts through out the day.

If you are food-phobic, for whatever reason, fruit is one of the worst ideas, as fruit are natural appetite suppressants. As are many "healthy" foods.

What she needs is some good animal fat, and a plate of greasy chips. Maybe a cream cake. Or two.

a reply to: rukia I'm the same way with being told what to do. I'm surprised your therapist hasn't discussed your diagnosis as a control issue... because that's what I get from what you are doing... not wanting to have someone tell you what to do and you controlling your calories.
Eating lots of tasty food a little bit at a time can be a relaxing fun way to enjoy food and keep fit.

When I was in high school I looked at my body as though I was fat. I look back on pictures and wonder how in the world I thought that way at the time...I was quite thin. It had something to do with not accepting my body type as it was... my body just isn't shaped like a supermodel and no amount of body sculpting exercise can change that fact.

Self acceptance and understanding the actions we do and the thoughts we think are key... especially the actions and thoughts we do on auto-pilot.
If you are not seeing healthy results with your current therapist... maybe find a better one?
Be well and take care.

a reply to: rukia

I'm sorry to hear that. Always enjoy to read your posts around here.
Do you want to die? I stop eating when I want to vanish.
Maybe you really should try marijuhana if you can?
Laugh a bit, relax, a nice barbecue with friends, maybe?
Just as a first step.
The problem is, the more pressure you put on it the more food becomes an issue, defiance is a natural reaction to that.
Try to make the circumstances you eat in more enjoyable, company could help. High calorie drinks, maybe?
But I am really not in the position to tell you what to do. Just from experience I'd guess it is a symptom and not the real issue? Get a better therapist.

I agree with TNMockingbird - your therapist seems clueless!!! You should look into getting a new one, and specifically one who has been recommended by patients who were treated successfully.

Here's the thing: The anorexia is not the 'primary' problem - though the therapist should be helping you develop methods to safeguard your health 'while' working with you to find the 'true' problem (the reason you became anorexic in the first place).

You need a therapist who will push you (and work with you) to examine your childhood with a fine tooth comb, so you can figure out (right back to the earliest experiences - which could even include subtle, 'casual', maybe unintentionally hurtful, remarks by family)..

Eating disorders, especially anorexia, tend to evolve in girls as ways to assert control when the family dynamics involve one or both parents being rigidly controlling of the child...

These disorders can also develop as a result of low-self esteem due to societal influence and peer pressure, which encourage extreme thinness (at the expense of health)...

There can also be combinations of the above as well as combinations of other factors which can cause the kind of psychological distress (anxiety, depression, etc) where an eating disorder manifests as a coping mechanism -

- for example, while anorexia may start out as a (seemingly) simple desire to diet in order to lose some weight, it soon becomes a sort of addiction to hunger, as the patient finds that having absolute control over their food intake reduces the over all anxiety inherent to a childhood in dysfunctional family interactions...

Oh gosh, I'm sorry...I didn't mean to go on so much - the point is:

Any eating disorder is just the symptom/result of the 'true problem' -
- so until you dig deep into your past and your 'self' and figure out the origins/root causes and then do the psychological work of resolving the feelings associated with those originating 'issues' -
- you may never be permanently free of the anorexia...And in order to achieve the above, you need to find a really good, insightful, intuitive therapist - one you feel a 'click' with (it took me three tries to find one that was a good 'fit').

Also, I did a lot of therapeutic 'work' on my own by actually studying (the related) psychology myself - the internet is a great resource for learning, and the more you know, the more likely you will be successful in achieving wellness!


Best wishes, and if you have any questions, feel free to PM me..

a reply to: rukia

I know I can think my way out of this, because I've done it before.

Indeed - your current thinking is what got you to where you are now, I suggest you reevaluate your lateral interpretation of what it means to sustain life or you will die, young.

If your doctor can't get it through to you then you're on your own - your call.

a reply to: rukia

Karen Carpenter dropped dead of a heart attack at the age of 40 after years of battling anorexia. I also had a friend who had a heart attack at the age of 28 for the same reason... luckily for her she survived but is now on heart meds for the rest of her life and is at high risk for another heart attack, the next one will be fatal.

Without the proper nutritional requirements and caloric intake, your body is literally eating away at itself which ultimately slowly weakens and kills your heart, one cell at a time.

The heart muscle is one of the only organs in ours bodies that does not heal itself once the damage is done.

Weaken your heart and you can guarantee yourself a much much shorter life span.



Is that what you want ?!

To drop dead at 30 ? 40 ? 50 ?



Wake the hell up.





... and no, I'm not apologizing for doling out some tough love.

a reply to: rukia

Why am I getting worse?

For what is worth, your problem is not in the food, it`s in your head. You need stop looking at the numbers and just eat until you are no longer hungry. Stop drinking soda, drink water and eat more for a better effect, you will consume better nutrients for your body and you will feel better.

Also If you are not already doing it, I`d recommend physical activity of any type...jogging, cycling, hiking, swimming, team sports...whatever you enjoy most. It will help relieve stress and worries in your head because you will know that now that you have done something for yourself, you can eat, as will help with your metabolism to process food and water faster and more efficiently. It`s a win win combination, all you have to do is take a first step.

Good luck!

originally posted by: rukiaI know I can think my way out of this, because I've done it before. But it's just so enticing because starvation feels so focused.

Starving yourself, will only get you directly to check out. Your angry and resentful loved ones aren't going to care how focused you were and when they find your calorie logs. It's going to break their hearts, not bring you admiration.

You're right, You can't be a failure if you conquer anorexia, so give that brain more than 500 calories to get it done. Then you can obsess over how much money you saved on medical and therapy expenses and give yourself a wonderful vacation in a place that has your favorite foods with someone you love.

I'm going to tell you something and I hope after reading it you will count your bloody blessings and go out and eat something.

Nearly 18 months ago I got bit by something. I believe this triggered the problems I currently have.

First off, I noticed a nut allergy, including being allergic to peanuts which are legumes. As are beans and lentils. So a whole food group that I can't eat. I have an allergic reaction to just being near nuts, never mind eating them.

Try finding even a soup that doesn't contain beans or lentils or that's been made in a nut-free environment.

I'm allergic to root vegetables, raw tomatoes, soya, bananas. I've got other problems with food intolerance.

I got a respiratory disorder part of which includes consumption - my body 'eating itself'. I first noticed about a year ago that I'd lost a bit of weight which was surprising since I'd been too tired to do the daily walks I was used to.

As time went on my appetite diminished as did my options as to what to eat. Also, I wasn't well enough to cook.

At one time I was living on a bowl of cereal and a couple of slices of bread a day. But then I realised that the bread was made with soya flour, and I'd recently identified soya as a problem.

I found I couldn't sit or stand for too long so if I wanted cereal for breakfast I'd have to lug everything into bed and pour it all out whilst propped up as comfortably as I could get. It became too stressful.

Now breakfast is a box of microwaveable chips, although I get a bit of a reaction to potatoes it's not as bad as the reaction caused by other food.

Lunch is a packet of microwaveable rice and a fruit & coconut yoghourt. Dinner the same, unless I fancy a bag of crisps.

I try to get an extra 1,000 calories a day sometimes by drinking fruit juice but it's too hard to drink so much now. I used to like coconut milk but the brand I used to buy includes almonds, so that's out.

I've had coughing fits nearly every day and my throat seems to be very tender. Eating anything is actually hazardous, sometimes I choke and it's terrifying.

I currently look anorexic. I can't breathe properly unless I'm lying down, so I spend most of my time in bed. If I want anything I have to get up for it and suffer. Making something as simple as a hot drink is a major undertaking for me.

And, no, there is nobody to look after me. You try doing laundry or dusting or dealing with post if you can only spend a couple of minutes upright without needing to lie down.

And I know if only I could improve my diet and eat a bit more I might feel a bit better. I can't even go out in the sunshine. Just walking up the path to feed the birds nearly kills me.

Don't tell me you can't eat. You can breathe, you can move around and you're throwing it all away.

a reply to: rukia

Yup, get a new therapist.

Preferably somebody who struggled with the same kind of disorder and got over it. Also, you need to make friends with people who overcame this, go to a support group.

Once you see other people, in worse situations than you are, and that you'll be there, if for no other reason than you REFUSE TO HELP YOURSELF you'll turn around.

And I don't need to scare you.

You're just being stupid, but you know that. ( and that's not an insult btw, just an observation that in this one thing, you can overcome and you will, but you treating yourself like you can't, is stupid.)

Also pretending you don't know why you can't is really intellectually dishonest to yourself.

~Tenth