Scare me, please.

a reply to: CagliostroTheGreat

Yes! Thank you--and I agree. So far this thread has been very helpful, and I definitely feel more of a sense of urgency about changing. This sort of dialogue helps me to combat the false 'logic' of the eating disorder, if that makes sense. I have considered your proposition--and I fully agree with you. It does help. Certainly, I don't think that I would be this lucid without it.

However, I live in Wisconsin at the moment, so unfortunately I don't know of a way to legally pursue it. When the chance presents itself, I will take it. ^_^ If anything, it definitely takes the edge off of anxiety.

rukia

I'm glad to hear it. Hopefully one day we will eradicate the stigma of this medicine. I think that you need to sit down in a quiet room with maybe some soft music playing, burn some incense and bring yourself to as relaxed a state as you can achieve (no small task if you have issues with anxiety) and have some serious "real talk" with YOU. Because, ultimately, you are the only person that can fix the problem. Everyone else is just part of a very important support structure. I know it sounds new agey, and I apologize, but this is a technique that I have personally used to get over certain emotional issues I had in the past. It sounds crazy talking to yourself but, after all, you know you better than anyone, right?

I hope my mindless yammering has provided you with at least some modicum of insight. 😌

a reply to: rukia

I'm a psychiatric nurse and I don't really understand the condition. I've had a bit of experience nursing people with eating disorders many years ago as a student nurse, and I found the experience both frustrating and soul-destroying; no care plan or advice seemed to have the remotest effect on the patients' determination to starve themselves to death.

Death was almost as commonplace as on elderly units. Usual manner of death - heart failure during sleep. Girls in their 20s, 30s.

Forgive my ignorance but two separate things seem to be an issue with sufferers of anorexia - the actual physical act of eating food, and a persistent delusion that they look fat.

I remember standing in front of a full length mirror with an anorexic lady; she stated she looked fat, despite appearing painfully thin with a BMI of about 14. But she stated that I was thin, though I was about twice her weight with a normal BMI.

Antipsychotic medication was usually prescribed to treat the delusion, though it appeared to be completely ineffective.

If you have a problem with the physical act of eating food, you could try blending all your food and making them smoothies. That way, perhaps you can trick your mind into believing you aren't actually eating anything, just having drinks.

Good luck. Stay well.

a reply to: rukia

I logged on which I rarely do because although I think each other's experiences can't actually help us, we can only help ourselves, sometimes it can open our eyes.

I had a pretty bad situation as a child and I was often suicidal in thought since age 11.

In my 30s I went through a divorce with from the only person I had ever really let into my life and indeed after a couple of years of extreme pain which no one else will ever understand, I tried to kill myself. I had been in counseling about a year and it was helping but no one could stop the pain.

So I tried to die seriously and was hospitalized. While in the mental facility I started looking at my fellow ill persons and their pills and their whiny attitudes and their I am never going to get better defeated outlook and the way the workers really looked at us with pity for some with anger for others, disgust even and something happened to me.

I made a decision after 35 years of life! Really! It is all about what we decide! All of the years and I simply had never really decided I don't want to be like them, like that. I have never been suicidal since through pain and high water I remain, even when depressed strong.

No one else can make a true decision for us, do we want to live? We all know what it takes if we want to die we always have that option and it is always under the table if sometime in the future we want it. But for me I want to stand and be proud of my new found strength and I have all of these many years now.

A decision, it is all the same, being fat, skinny, alcoholic, smoking, violent,...name the fix is all about taking a good real look and for me I had to see me in others before I realized who I was, a good mirror and a decision.

Okay...

Keep it up! Scarecrows take up a lot less room at the morgue and cemetery. Your neighbors will appreciate it.

Life is 100% fatal. Pretty scary, no?

I second this post:

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: rukia

Why do you want to die?

To hear that you've struggled with insecurities since you were a little girl hurts my heart.

I think instead of just treating symptoms, you've got to get to the root of this issue and find out what destroyed you when you were so young... because I'm sure something has. Then practice radical acceptance about it, and get started in setting new standards for yourself.

Repetition is key in neurological re-conditioning... so maybe cut out photos of girls that are a healthy weight, write their weight down next to the photo's with positive words like "healthy" and stuff, and look at them every day and aspire to be more like them everyday. Once you begin to look like them and after three months or so of that, it'll start to feel like the norm.

I read in my text that after three months of repetition of something, it will begin to come more naturally to you.

You can literally change how you see things. Three months at a time. I've experienced it.

What you consider chubby/fat can begin to look skinny and healthy, literally. Just set a goal weight and maintain that weight for three months, and etc. You can take baby steps. You can set a goal for maintaining a weight for four months just to be safe, and you'll begin to "see" differently, guaranteed.

When you have the urge to cut back... think of something ELSE you want to do, and reward yourself or punish yourself with other things that don't involve food. Like, "if I eat this, then I can let myself do ____!" etc. It's about re-adjusting your focus, where you were focused on food, now you are focused on something else. If you "mess up" then just let it go as a mistake and get back on track the next day.

I second group therapy as well, too. And a new therapist.

Hope you get better!

Btw, I have Type 1 diabetes... that means I'm on a life-long diet if I want to keep my limbs and live, until they find a cure!

It's an auto-immune disease that forces me to count carbs, and so now I keep track of all the food I eat, too. I've been surviving on carb counting for three years now... I never once counted calories. I eat between 100-175 carbs a day. I never have soda, I cut out all sweet things like cakes and cookies- I haven't had a bagel or a soft pretzel in three years! I drink water and coffee only, lol. I eat a #-ton of veggies, some fruit, high fatty meats, and mostly whole wheat breads. I try to keep actual sugars under 20 grams per meal. I am now used to giving myself the serving size of everything I make... So my diet is ultra strict. Maybe if you can't quit the dieting, you should just switch to a different but healthier diet. Just something to consider.

a reply to: CJCrawley

Thank you for the advice. That's a good idea.
I don't even know how to describe how that feels, to see myself as 'fat'. It's like I experience myself as larger than I am--and then that translates to seeing myself distorted in mirrors. I think I see myself correctly sometimes, but I do see myself as being fatter than I truly am. I was shocked seeing pictures of me when I felt fat, but I was incredibly thin. It's very disconcerting.

Unfortunately, no medication has empirical evidence of actually working to treat anorexia. People with eating disorders aren't crazy--just as depressed people or anxious people aren't crazy. I've never met one who was. I have done an exhaustive amount of research on eating disorders-- and I'm still not positive about the nature of the persistent and insidious delusion of 'fatness'. However, from what I can discern with my limited experience, I don't think that it is psychosis--I think it must have something perhaps to do with spacial and depth perception, possibly. Or maybe something else, entirely.

I've been told it's not about food or fatness at all--but rather about trying to fix something inherently 'wrong' with the sufferer from their perspective. For me, feeling fat is synonymous to feeling embarrassing or shameful. Since fat isn't a feeling.

Perhaps it's because people with eating disorders are kind and sensitive in a society that is far too materialistic and devoid of such emotions. It's about more than that, though. Even though I have an eating disorder, I admit that I don't fully understand it. So I don't think you're ignorant at all--you have more experience than me and you're 100% correct in describing treating people with eating disorders as frustrating and soul-draining. You couldn't have said it better. It's very frustrating from the sufferer's perspective, as well. I can't even imagine how difficult it must have been for you.

I mean, look at me, I'm trying to fight back because I understand that it's not logical--and while the advice does resonate with me, I find it overwhelmingly difficult to comply. I have been forcing myself to eat more since making this thread, but I'm still under 1000. It's almost laughable, how ridiculous this is. It's like something stops me from doing the advice, even when I know that it is sound. I commend you for having had the patience to deal with people like me without going postal. It is tragic that death is common among sufferers. I believe the last percentage I heard was 20% die of complications related to anorexia.

I don't plan on adding to that.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I'm dying of laughter that was funny.
But point taken--thanks--that was quite a graphic image

a reply to: geezlouise

Thank you! I know what caused this--and I actually have a thread about it, funnily enough. It's not something normal, though. Like seriously abnormal. (check it out if you'd like) My therapist--bless him lol--has been told everything and instead of declaring me off my rocker, he basically said that the point of it all is that I am resilient and that I can overcome this like I have everything else. It's a matter of dealing with that fear, I think. Of coming to terms with the fact that I have no control over anything. Something like that.

Because besides that, there's seriously no reason I should have this problem. I had a great childhood, minus the creepy stuff. I am comfortable in knowing myself. I'm a confident person. I'm not insecure--just self-deprecating. I am very hard on myself because I find it difficult to forgive myself. In a way, I hate myself. But in another, I'm incredibly selfish. So it's slightly paradoxical.

My fiance says that I need to learn to appreciate myself. I just see myself as being annoying because that's generally how I'm viewed--even by those who love me. I guess I resent that. I don't know what starving myself has to do with that, but there's nothing that's really bothering me. Most people with eating disorders have specific reasons. I don't for some reason. And I can't figure it out for the life of me.

Well, that's not entirely true. I can figure it out if we go off what happened to me as a toddler, then I think the answer is that I am sick because I did not say yes. Why that is, God only knows. But I am proud of myself that I said no, regardless of the short-term outcome. And yet, I also think that I am terrible, because it happened at all.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I suspect there is a strong spiritual component to eating disorders. Sufferers and research studies alike describe the eating disorder as a 'demon'. I find that weird, all things considered.

It is interesting to note that besides a torn Anterior Talofibular Ligament from running too much, I escaped literally unscathed from my previous bout of being severely sick. I know that brain connections play a role in anorexia, specifically in the role of ambivalence, but to what degree that causes the disorder itself I do not know. The cause is an unknown. Therefore finding 'why' shouldn't be the key focus, really. It should be moving forward, in spite of why. You're totally right about rewiring and conditioning, though. And I keep trying to do that, only to get scared back into thinking that I'm going to get fat or something stupid. It's rather draining and maddening lol

a reply to: rukia

and I'm still not positive about the nature of the persistent and insidious delusion of 'fatness'.

A thought some may laugh at unless they also know someone effected by a prior life.

Maybe people with this disorder are people who died because of being overweight in a previous life. Again in that case maybe hypnosis regressing might help.

a reply to: rukia

May I ask you a question - what's the absolute worst thing that could happen to you if you gained a few pounds? Plenty of people do and just carry on with their lives. It won't kill them.

Now, how many hundreds of pounds would you need to gain before obesity threatened your life?

And how many tens of pounds would you need to lose before you died?

How long would it take - either way?

a reply to: berenike

Absolutely nothing, of course. I understand that. I know that I'm being ridiculous. I would have to really try to become obese to actually end up becoming obese. I don't even know if I could do it if I tried. My body isn't made to be obese. I'm very petite. To die, it depends on how long my heart lasts. Last time, I got down to 84 from 128. I wasn't exactly dead, but I looked like I was going to die. Felt like it, too. I don't think I'd last lower than 80 for long. And I don't want to test that hypothesis out, either. I'd have to start throwing up again, and I don't want to do that. At the rate I'm going now, I would say it would take me a very long time to get back down to that weight. At least several months if it continues at the rate it's at now.

This time, it is like I can't stop myself. I know it's wrong. I don't want to do things like weigh myself surreptitiously or make excuses not to eat. But once the thought occurs to me, I find that resisting doesn't work. I feel compelled, almost. It's strange. It isn't me. I know that it's illogical--and I am having a difficult time thinking my way out of it because I get this irritating ambivalence due to intellectualizing things. The egosyntonic nature of anorexia is what makes it truly scary, in my opinion. I have therapy this Wednesday, and I'm about to get yelled at for losing even more weight.

Anorexia isn't really about 'fat' or weight or even food. Apparently, it's about something else. I don't care about other people and their weight--that doesn't matter to me. My aunt is obese and she's a beautiful woman. Fat isn't really fat it's more like failure. I see myself as excessive. I see everyone else just fine. It's just me that I see as being larger than I am. Sometimes, I see myself how I really am. But as this progresses, those times become more infrequent. It's quite distressing. I really am getting sick of this. I'm trying to eat. I'm just not getting better. It really sucks

I know nothing would happen to me, but the idea of gaining back weight fills me with this deep, swooping dread feeling in my navel. Essentially, the idea sends me into a panic. I want to feel like whatever it's just a few pounds like everyone else. I just can't.

As you can see, I feel a bit trapped by all of this.
I feel so foolish.

a reply to: rukia

Trapped. Foolish. About to be yelled at by your therapist.

That's awful. You deserve more out of life than that. It's a horrible trade-off against any sense of achievement you might feel by maintaining a low body weight.

Some things, I suppose, have to be seen as a challenge and regarded as a maze or a ball of knotted string. You know how many times you can get lost in a maze and it's infuriating because you can't find that one way out? Or how much you unravel that string only to make the tangles worse?

You're a fighter, right? Somewhere, at your core you're up to this. You just need to find that right way.

I set myself goals some days. The mantra is: by close of play today I will... And, whatever I have said I'd do, it will get done by bedtime.

Maybe that would work for you or you need to find your own 'magic words'. But you do need a daily plan of action.

On the days when I vaguely think that something needs to be done the chances are that whatever it is won't get done simply because I don't feel up to it.

But if I've said 'by close of play today' it doesn't matter if I feel up to or not. No excuses.

Grit your teeth and Confront - another magic word.

I might have mentioned this before but when I've had a poorly appetite I've had the same food at the same time every day. Then, even if I'm not hungry, I'm expecting to eat that food item. And I'll miss it if I don't bother, the thought is there that I should have it. That would always get a result.

Please stop beating yourself up so much. Try replacing all those negatives with positives. You're not foolish or trapped - you're battling to find your way out of a challenge. You're strong and resourceful and your will to win has got you this far.

a reply to: berenike

Thank you very much. I do hope I have it in me. I will never give up fighting. I'm no quitter

And it has to be said that this anorexia b.s. is the only thing in my life that isn't going ridiculously well at the moment. It starkly contrasts the direction that everything else is taking. So, I know that I have a lot to look forward to that I certainly want to be alive and well for. I say really morbid things, but I don't feel so dark all of the time. I get in these slumps, where I get all negative for a while. I'm silly like that
Okay. I'll try to be nicer to myself, too. Everyone tells me that. I guess it's about time I listen.

Ok, obviously "just eat" isn't going to work. You need to get to the true root of the issue. It's great that you're seeking a therapist/counselor, but in all honesty 9/10 of them are idiots. YOU need to figure this out.

Several years ago I had a dream out of nowhere where my toddler age daughter was dead. It was very realistic and very terrifying, it really stuck with me to the point where I was researching the meaning of it. One site suggested that it symbolized the death (as you feel) of your inner child. And to overcome it, visualize the scene again and say to the dead child what you would want to say to yourself. (weird and confusing, bear with me). I tried it....bawled like a baby, but I seriously think that little exercise helped me get over years of repressed crap. Dreams are truly the best way to communicate with your subconscious.

Here's a deep meditation exercise that's always worked for me:
Before you begin decide what you want to know. Your case seems extra complicated, so maybe the first time ask "Why do I do this?" Then the next time "How can I heal?" etc. It may take several tries for you.

Do this as you're falling asleep.

Meditation: Picture yourself in a garden. The details are up to you, just a peaceful, tranquil place. But there has to be a pool/fountain/body of water. Relax. Begin with your toes, then your feet, ankles, etc. Breathe in deeply and every time you exhale the next part of your body relaxes. If thoughts creep into your mind, don't fight them just let them float on through. If you get all the way to the top of your head but still don't feel 100% relaxed, or still have intrusive thoughts...just start over. Keep going until you're relaxed.

Deep meditation: Once you're completely relaxed and empty minded, walk over to the pool. Begin stepping down into it. Deep inhale. Exhale with each step. With each step down into the water you are even MORE relaxed. Until you are completely submerged. You dive down into the dark depths of the water and at the bottom you see a treasure chest. You swim to it and open it. Inside is a bright light. THIS is your answer. But don't try to consciously figure it out, just picture it. Picture that THAT is it and you've found it.

Keep repeating the exercise until you fall asleep. The answer will come in your dream.

Sounds crazy, but on the rare occasion I've done this it's worked brilliantly. You're obviously going through some deep rooted sh*t, but you obviously WANT to get better too. I pray for self discovery and healing for you! I don't even know you, but you deserve it. I think it's time that YOU acknowledge the fact that you deserve it as well.

Yeah, just read through your other thread about your 'dirty laundry' predicting this condition.

And some people think it's squirrelly cuckoo, but I also agree with SeaWorthy's suggestion that it may be a past life link.

When you go into your dreams for answers, be prepared with the whole hearted attitude of "This has been my path up until now, but I'm DONE with this sh*t. It's time to move on." But you have to be firm and really mean it.

There's been some reason you were fated for this, and some reason you've been holding onto it...but enough is enough. Time to close this chapter and open up the next one.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

While I don't believe in past lives, I still think that what you suggest is interesting so I will try it. I agree that for some reason I'm fated for this, and I agree I do admit I must be holding onto this. Enough is enough. I will do my best. Thanks

a reply to: rukia
The past life thing is just a theory. And even for people who have past life 'memories', there are all sorts of possible explanations. Maybe they're just tuning in to someone else's experience. Or maybe a small percentage of their soul did live another life, and now it's joined up with other soul material to form a 'new' soul, but some of the memories remain. I don't claim to have all the answers and I try not to be fruity woo woo in my beliefs, I just try to stay open minded.

But I will tell you the meditation exercise works. I've only used it twice. The first time I was charged with a BS criminal charge and they were trying to get me to plea. I was so sick of the process I was torn on what I should do. I did the exercise and that night in my dream I was telling someone about my dilemma. An older woman came up to me and said "I'm sorry to eavesdrop, but I used to be a judge. Don't EVER plea if you know you're innocent." The next day I told my lawyer no deal, and within a couple of months the charge was dropped completely- because they finally realized/admitted it was total BS.

The other time I was trying to get pregnant, but it was too soon to take the test. It was driving me nuts. So I did the meditation. I had a long, crazy dream (as usual) but at the very end, right before I woke up, I was teaching a cooking class. For some reason there was a big bucket filled with blue carnations. It was just so out of place that it stuck with me after I woke up. I looked it up and back in Victorian times people would communicate with flowers. Carnations meant 'yes'. Blue...boy, of course! Sure enough I was pregnant with a boy!

Good luck! Feel free to PM me.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

That's pretty wild! In my opinion, I think that the most-logical explanation for 'past life' things is the fact that memories are collective, in a sense. For instance, the Akashic Records. I like what you said about tuning into another person's experience. I think that's probably exactly what it is. I usually just call it daydreaming, but who knows! Dreams are definitely something else, though. I, too, have had dreams that are portents of what is to come. It seems to be a common experience. But it's definitely mysterious, that's for sure