Religious Leaders Off the Rails

a reply to: olaru12

Love that little video. I've watched the entire series on these guys. I find it really funny how he says HA really hard after every second wordHA. He is in prison now for trying to shoot his ex wifes new boyfriend.

a reply to: carewemust

One of the reasons I left the church was when I found out the pastor bought a Harley and Lincoln navigator and then a 1.5 million dollar estate while the members of the church struggled along. Those purchases weren't even with their salary they were just expenses paid by the church. Their idea of a mission trip was staying in 600 dollar a night hotels in Peru while asking the suffering people they preached to for "love offerings".

a reply to: Joecanada11

How desperate for meaning or whatever are these people to not see what they are doing is just plain crazy???

How much time and money do they waste on this stuff??? I guess they're getting a show out of it so it's entertainment but I have a hard time believing that these people are for real. It's like mass hypnosis or something. But these people are regular people. Have jobs. Make decisions. Drive on the Hwy with the rest of us. Etc.

We are surrounded by mindless meat bags who can be convinced of anything. I can't believe that this is the world I live in and these are people that are basically like myself. How can we be this similar and this completely different too. It's amazing.

Has anyone ever been to one of these events as an outsider and somehow ended up dancing or speaking in tongues or falling from the power of the pastor or acting drunk or something???

I'm curious as to how it happens and what they are thinking before during and after.

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: carewemust

One of the reasons I left the church was when I found out the pastor bought a Harley and Lincoln navigator and then a 1.5 million dollar estate while the members of the church struggled along. Those purchases weren't even with their salary they were just expenses paid by the church. Their idea of a mission trip was staying in 600 dollar a night hotels in Peru while asking the suffering people they preached to for "love offerings".

If people knew the truth about the "afterlife", they wouldn't give these immoral characters the time of day. But this all comes with life we're living...in America on planet Earth, at this point in history.

a reply to: mOjOm

I was a member of a pentecostal church for about five years.
I've experienced both....
I believe that I have been slain in the spirit by the power of god, but I also believe that I've been pushed over by the ego of the person praying. both happens, as far as the wacky video shown here, I just can't explain it, ain't never seen anything like that one... and I've seen quite a bit.

a reply to: mOjOm

I joined a church like this. I think what happens at least in my case is that you go along with it so as not to feel like an outsider. I joined that specific church because of my ex wife lol. It's kind of a mob mentality effect that takes over. They also play a lot of music and it gets the energy of the room flowing. I believe what I thought to be the "holy spirit" to be nothing more than the feeling you get attending a concert or sports event.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: NthOther
If you think Pat Robertson represents mainline Christian thought, then I'm not sure who's more deluded--him or you.

I'm not so sure about that. Sure, Christianity used to be all about compassion, forgiveness and NOT passing judgment, as FamCor stated, but since Christianity became political in the US and adopted the principles of the Republican party, they have become the antithesis of compassion and understanding and have taken up the job of religious Judge and Jury and in some cases, executioner as well.

Pat Robertson is whacked, though. Still, a lot of people who call themselves Christians "follow" him...

Tough Love, like in the OT.

Very biblical.

a reply to: burgerbuddy

It may be biblical but that doesn't make it Christ-like.

Even the Pharisees quoted bible verses as they called Jesus evil and caused him to suffer.

a reply to: burgerbuddy

I don't think "Tough Love" includes anyone dying from it.

Not much can be learned from starving to death. Or anything else resulting from death. Death doesn't allow for anyone to apply what might be learned from that "Tough Love" experience.

a reply to: mOjOm

hmm.. tough love...
there is a small sect of christians who believe that the women is to be obedient to the husband in all things... I know there is, I've been to some of their churches, I've ran across their members on forums before. I tried to tell on of these people that you can't always be obedient to someone, and still be acting in love one time... for instance, when the alchoholic is demanding the rent money for his next trip to the bar, and well, he kind of stripped the right of the wife to act in love in the relationship. in his mind, marriage could never grow beyond the servant/master relationship.

originally posted by: ketsuko
If I'm not allowed to judge, does that mean I can go out and murder people? After all, true Christians won't judge me and I am not supposed to judge myself ... right?

I'm not talking about True Christians. I'm talking about the religio-political entity that call themselves "Christian" today.

Seriously, this whole don't judge thing has been taken to ridiculous extremes.

Whatever you have to tell yourself... IMO, it's not for you to determine whether or not someone else is breaking a commandment. That's not your job. It's God's. But then, I was raised by a True Christian.

And how can we tell if the people who are praying and giving to the needy are being ostentatious and hypocritical about it ...

Why do you need to tell? God knows. It's not your place to judge.

If someone tells you not to have an affair or judges you harshly for having one, they better not be over there having an affair of their own.

This is how the modern Christian thinks.

And I know the bible. You don't need to quote it.

Anyhow, I guess my point is that all of life to one degree or other is judgment based. Do you want to wear blue or yellow today? Should eat pancakes or waffles?

And making decisions, while technically, is making "judgments", that's not what is meant in the bible. That's just a cheap way of getting around the true meaning of the biblical verses.

a reply to: Cheddarhead

But if that's true, how does Pope Francis read the same scripture and have a totally opposite interpretation? He has upset the Religious Right many times with his opinions. Pat Robertson and the Religious Right have a nasty, uncaring mindset and use scripture to justify it.

Are you implying there are religious right and religious left? Are you saying that you have the gift of sorting out right from left in religions? Never heard that expression before. What was Jesus? Right or left? Is left good or is right good? Maybe both? So the pope upsets the right so you are saying the pope is the left?

a reply to: Seede

and... if the gov't allows christian dogma to dictate it's policies, just what side will be allowed to dictate, the left, or the right?? and how long before the side that is dictating turns on the other side and persecutes the "not really" christians?

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Cheddarhead

But if that's true, how does Pope Francis read the same scripture and have a totally opposite interpretation? He has upset the Religious Right many times with his opinions. Pat Robertson and the Religious Right have a nasty, uncaring mindset and use scripture to justify it.

Are you implying there are religious right and religious left?

It's not an implication...it's a fact as this thread has illustrated.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Seede

and... if the gov't allows christian dogma to dictate it's policies, just what side will be allowed to dictate, the left, or the right?? and how long before the side that is dictating turns on the other side and persecutes the "not really" christians?

It's already started with the concerted effort by the "right wing" Christian war on GLBT citizens of this country. The right wing conservatives are even going so far as to use this hateful persecution in media campaign spots.

www.au.org...

An American Theocracy.....it will be a bloody mess.

a reply to: Joecanada11

One of the reasons I left the church was when I found out the pastor bought a Harley and Lincoln navigator and then a 1.5 million dollar estate while the members of the church struggled along. Those purchases weren't even with their salary they were just expenses paid by the church. Their idea of a mission trip was staying in 600 dollar a night hotels in Peru while asking the suffering people they preached to for "love offerings".

Wonder how that even got started? Most all legitimate church organizations have a board of elders and a congregational election as to the preacher's salary. If a church gets taken for a ride then its the people's fault. Instead of leaving maybe you should have stayed and thrown the bum out.

a reply to: olaru12

ya I know, but who in their right minds actually think that it's going to end with those hot topics such as abortion and gay rights, it's not and sooner or later, they are going to be trying to meddle in other christians methods of worship, their beliefs...

a reply to: mOjOm

Let them Starve to Death!! Wasn't that lovely advice and no doubt answers the age old question of "What would Jesus Do??" Yes Pat, he'd say Let them Starve to Death.

You ask what Jesus would do? Jesus came and went and while He was here what did He do? Very little to feed the poor and very little to heal the sick. A couple here and a couple there but not much of anything other than that. He never built a hospital and He never handed out shovels and seeds. So He just did did what Robertson and all of the rest do. He let them starve to death. Never figured out if He was left or right. Tell us -- what is your opinion outside of kicking a guy in the teeth? Have you given all of everything you own and fed the hungry or heal the sick? I know I haven't.

John_12:8 For the poor always ye have with you; but me (meaning Jesus) ye have not always.

a reply to: Seede

John 12:8 is a perfect example showing Jesus being nothing more than a selfish preacher. The oil that was wasted on him could have been used to feed very many. This verse shows Christ's true character. Along with when he had his disciples steal a donkey, etc.