Tax day, did you pay your fair share?

a reply to: thinline

All I know, is that I am NOT a wealthy man, I do NOT make a lot of money. $42k, this cycle, to be precise. I lost LITERALLY 1/4 of my income to state and federal taxes. Now thanks to this "great" state, I still I owe them more. Thanks to Obamacare, my return dropped from just about $1K, to about $300. Apparently $40k puts you in "maximum fine territory", as my guy put it.
So yeah, I paid my "fair share"

a reply to: Metallicus

That's why itemized tax returns exist. This last year my business boomed. It went really well and being a sole proprietor all of my income was counted as gross income. My gross income was more than double Bernie's this year, but after expenses my taxable income was less than his. I get the tax law more and more as I delve further into business, and had I been on the hook for over $500k income this year, well lets say the IRS would arrest my ass. I spent $435k total in expansions, labor, and overhead costs. My taxable income was under $60,000 after all other things my accountant found. I made about $35,000 take home total. Now, granted, that is because I spent a LOT into my business this year, or the take home would have been 6 figures. If the tax code required me to pay on my gross income, it would have taken me 10 years to expand the way I did in one single year.

Best way to put it is, if you make a lot in one year, spend a lot that same year on assets and expansions. They will provide you income over time at a lower tax rate. Either that or become so big you can buy legislation and move money offshore.

originally posted by: MDpvc
a reply to: thinline

All I know, is that I am NOT a wealthy man, I do NOT make a lot of money. $42k, this cycle, to be precise. I lost LITERALLY 1/4 of my income to state and federal taxes. Now thanks to this "great" state, I still I owe them more. Thanks to Obamacare, my return dropped from just about $1K, to about $300. Apparently $40k puts you in "maximum fine territory", as my guy put it.
So yeah, I paid my "fair share"

25%? You're not counting it correctly.

If you're so 'fortunate' as to double your income, look to tracking every dime. You'll quickly find out that it's closer to 50%, after all. 30 or so up front- and 20% in the rear.

Actually, I suggest everyone do it. Supposedly mint.com can do this for free- but I use a paid application. Links to my credit union and credit card, and all of my expenses go to credit. I classify every expense based on purpose, and at the end of the year I can break it down based on category. Sales tax, Taxes on gas, Property tax (If you pay rent, look up the tax rate in your area, that percentage is a percentage of your rent), etc etc. A quick and dirty spreadsheet can work out exactly how much of your "take home" income goes to tax. Add that to what they take out net vs gross (if you're under 50, you won't see medicare, that's a tax on you for them...) and you'll have a pretty grim understanding of what you really pay.


The good news is that money itself is a broken concept in the US and almost the entire world- it's going to fall apart, and much like russia in the early 90's it will be cheaper to wipe your ass with 20's than it would be to buy toilet paper. Only we won't have the 20's available, since it's all digital and will be wiped out in the blink of an eye. (Assure yourself that they will lie through their teeth about it, though, and try to keep it alive once it's gone)


Your debt, your savings, your retirement, and your income are all dust in the wind. But remember, never trust anyone over 30, eh?

originally posted by: Vector99
The WSJ can say all they want about it, but they cannot refute my sources.

CNN better?

Bernie and Jane Sanders earned nearly $206K in 2014, tax returns show.

They had income of $200,000. Just because some of it was Social Security does not mean they did not get a check for the amount. You think someone is going to toss $60,000 in income just because it is not 'adjusted'?

They made $200,000. The end.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

No, CNN isn't better than my sources

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Their AGI was was $205,271. Their TAXABLE income was $140,994. Of that taxable income their tax due was $26,961. Their federal withholdings were $31,825. They received a refund of $4,172.

Instead of reading an article about it and agreeing with it how about checking the direct sources aka here and here

The WSJ can say all they want about it, but they cannot refute my sources.

originally posted by: Vector99
No, CNN isn't better than my sources
.

Funny how you are trying to spin this as adjusted versus gross when everyone else seems to understand that income is income.

Would you rather have $140K in adjusted or $200K in gross?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Maybe you should use a tax man properly. Some people are smarter i suppose. He would be audited if it was illegal no? Better luck next time.

originally posted by: lightedhype
He would be audited if it was illegal no?

Did I say he did anything illegal? It just seems ironic that Mr. Fair Share paid 13.5%.

originally posted by: markjohn
a reply to: Metallicus

My take of "fair share" is that we pay based on how much you can pay.

Oh, well that's easy. I can't afford to pay any of my tax liability.

a reply to: thinline

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Words cannot express the levels of anger, pure hatred, malice, and hostility I feel towards that agency, the politicians who support that agency, and the people who accept my money stolen by that agency, the IRS. If I had a magic genie grant me 3 wishes wish one would be watching them boiled alive in front of me, wish two would be for their resurrection, and wish three would be recreating the results of wish one only with a handheld video recorder so I can watch it over and over again. THIEVES. Legalized thieves living off of the time and work of Americans purely to provide the Meal Ticket's payout to the Kept Voter base.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Vector99
No, CNN isn't better than my sources
.

Funny how you are trying to spin this as adjusted versus gross when everyone else seems to understand that income is income.

You lost me there. I'm not spinning anything, the only spin is how the media is telling the story. Did you bother to read my links? First one is his actual tax return, second is the 2015 tax table from the IRS directly.

His/their AGI (adjusted gross income) was 205k. He/they had personal deductions totalling around 65k. Notice the keyword, DEDUCTIONS. Every single American gets the same thing. Bernie isn't special. That left him with a taxable income of $140k. The taxes he owed on that was 27,650 putting it at around 20%, not 13.5%

Would you rather have $140K in adjusted or $200K in gross?

Huh? No clue what you mean by that, it doesn't make sense.

There isn't a single working American that pays taxes based on their AGI, not one. Are you familiar with the term standard deduction and personal exemption? That is the minimum federally set mark that everyone subtracts from their AGI if they don't have itemized deductions. The standard deduction and personal exemption for last year totaled $10,350 ($6300 SD, $4050 PE). If you had business related expenses that totaled more than $6,300 you fill out the long form and go with what is called an itemized deduction. You still get your personal exemption in addition to your itemized deduction as long as you are not claimed as a dependant by someone.

Taxes are confusing to say the least, but no, Sanders did not pay a rate of 13.5% last year.

originally posted by: Vector99
...DEDUCTIONS.

Exactly. Mr. Fair Share likes to get people all riled up about how certain people do not pay their fair share but many of those people not paying their fair share do not pay their fair share because of legal deductions which Mr. Fair Share is taking advantage of as well.

There isn't a single working American that pays taxes based on their AGI, not one. Are you familiar with the term standard deduction and personal exemption?

See above. Mr. Fair Share did what certain people he bitches about did, he took deductions. When someone gives the bulls*** line that Warren Buffet paid a lower percent in taxes than his secretary they are leaving out how the income was earned and what types of deductions they both took.

I am highlighting the absurdity of what Mr. Fair Share is saying which is what every politician says, 'Do as I say and not as I do'. If he wants to bitch about certain people not paying enough taxes because of deductions than maybe he should not be taking deductions as well.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I'm not a Bernie fan, trust me. He has nice intentions and ideas. But a unicorn delivering you ice cream daily, while a good idea with nice intentions, just isn't realistic.

But to say he paid 13.5% isn't accurate. I honestly don't have a clue about Bernie, pretty much at all. The first bit of attention I paid him was during the last debate, where I learned he wants to break up the banks. Every question asked of him turned into that, or so it seemed.

fun scenario I just played out in my head
-Mr. Sanders, summer is hot and winter is cold, would you agree?
-I agree that banks are so big that in the winter they block the sun, and in the summer they reflect it. They are too big, we need to break up the banks so winter has a chance to be warm, and summer can be cold. But the banks are too big, bottom line.

originally posted by: Vector99
But to say he paid 13.5% isn't accurate.

His effective tax rate is 13.5% and that is as accurate as it gets. You would not have people quoting this in every news article if it were not. I completely understand that this is because of deductions which is why it is called an effective rate.

fun scenario I just played out in my head
-Mr. Sanders, summer is hot and winter is cold, would you agree?
-I agree that banks are so big that in the winter they block the sun, and in the summer they reflect it. They are too big, we need to break up the banks so winter has a chance to be warm, and summer can be cold. But the banks are too big, bottom line.

Larry Sanders should do that in his next SNL skit.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: thinline

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Words cannot express the levels of anger, pure hatred, malice, and hostility I feel towards that agency, the politicians who support that agency, and the people who accept my money stolen by that agency, the IRS. If I had a magic genie grant me 3 wishes wish one would be watching them boiled alive in front of me, wish two would be for their resurrection, and wish three would be recreating the results of wish one only with a handheld video recorder so I can watch it over and over again. THIEVES. Legalized thieves living off of the time and work of Americans purely to provide the Meal Ticket's payout to the Kept Voter base.

It's comforting to know you advocate watching the horrible murder of my mother and the many good people who work for the IRS. I guess working is only admirable when it's for companies/agencies you like.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

His effective tax rate is 13.5% and that is as accurate as it gets. You would not have people quoting this in every news article if it were not. I completely understand that this is because of deductions which is why it is called an effective rate.

If that is the case, get this, the "effective rate" I paid in taxes last year was .02%

a reply to: Vector99

It would be worse if you were telling people who made more than you to pay more if they were using the same methods that you were not lower their effective rate.

a reply to: corvuscorrax

Well, to flip the tables on you, is being a shakedown man for the mafia "admirable?" What about armed robbers, are they "good people?" Is it a respectable career choice to be a car jacker? How about the ever popular cattle rustlers of the old west?

Theft is theft is theft. The IRS is an agency of thieves living in a den on iniquity known as the US government. A veritable treasure chest of legalized criminal enterprises ranging from theft to graft to kidnapping to murder to terrorism all under one umbrella held by an Eagle. Yay us! :rolleyes:

a reply to: thinline

Heck, we pay taxes on groceries, and everything else, so oh, yeah! The politicians haven't a clue. When one talks about abolishing income tax, they'll get my attention.