U.S. has lost 5 million manufacturing jobs since 2000

a reply to: Willtell

The downfall of America is the uneducated voters who keep the status quo.

originally posted by: onequestion
it seemed to be working fine when people had the money to spend.

Nope, never has been "fine".
I guess I'm dealing with a lot of people who are far younger than I am, but some of the older members will know that we saw the decline of the logging industry because of a lower demand and cheaper competition, the decline of coal mining because of a lower demand and cheaper competition, the decline of steel manufacturing because of competition, the decline of dairy farming because of competition...

These things have been happening for decades, and it has nothing to do with the world suddenly being "run by monsters".

originally posted by: onequestion
When the giant mega corps decided to go public and buy out all the competition we began seeing wages decline and jobs move overseas.

No, we didn't.
We've been seeing industry moving overseas for decades. This is what happens when trade becomes easier through advances in technology and an improved political situation.

originally posted by: onequestion
These aren't the only sectors of the economy this effects these people retrain for different jobs and further devalue the rest of the market.

There are a lot of things you and others are either not considering or wilfully ignoring because it doesn't suit your narrative.

It ends with the consumer. None of this exists without the consumer. You have no supply if there is no demand.
You want to pay less for something, a company wants to supply that thing, they need to get the lowest bidder in to manufacture it otherwise it's not worth manufacturing that thing.
That thing is not going to be manufactured in the US because you will not work for the same pay a young person in China will work for. Why will they work for less? Because most of those workers are only the first or second generation to come out of the farming communities for a better life in the city (which in the case of China is debatable). Give it another decade or two and they will be on the streets, on strike, protesting about their poor wages and conditions.

Then your prices will go up, then those corporations will be moving operations to another low-paid developing nation for manufacturing, then your consumer prices will come down again.

It's pretty funny that so many seem to be following Trump's bs about all of this, while he himself used China for the manufacturing of so many of his products.

The reality is your population wants more while spending less, that's a reality of all our nations whether you want to claim otherwise or not. In order to have those prices low (and therefore able to sell those things) you need a a workforce willing to earn far less than the average American is willing to earn.

And this brings us again back to immigration. The only reason so much of your food is so damn cheap (cheap enough that millions of tons of it is wasted every year and you can buy a burger for less than $1) is because your farmers rely on cheap immigrant labour, people willing to work for a wage few Americans are willing to work for. The same with delivery, the same with retail.

Look at the demographics of employment for all these low-paid opportunities and the truth is right there for anyone with half a brain to see.

You cannot have it both ways, if you want low prices you have to have manufacturing in other nations, or allow immigrants to come in and do that work - if not, expect to be paying a hell of a lot more for everything you consume.

Come on guys, this is Economics 101.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Willtell

My friend works at IBM they are shipping tons of IT jobs to India. He does IT and his job is safe only because he works with a product almost no one at IBM understands.

My brother lost his job with IBM, was hired back about 6 months ago, and is now getting laid off again!! He says they've moved a few Egyptians to his team and are letting the Americans go. (He is premium call center and has his own clients)

People should have voted Perot instead of falling for the Clinton campaign.

Slick willey felt off back then.. as the years have gone on, the clinton family reign of corruption just keeps on growing.

originally posted by: Konduit
You obviously don't know how economics really works.

I clearly know more than Trump, and clearly more than many in this thread.

originally posted by: Konduit
The only reason it is cheaper to manufacture overseas is because countries like China purposely (and often illegally) devalue their own currency to make it cheaper and steal jobs from other countries.

It's cheaper to produce in China not because of devalued currency, but because of the labour force willing to work for less. Currency value is just one aspect of global MARKETS and trade, not a comparable function within manufacturing and export.
Generally, you're confusing financial markets with manufacturing - perhaps deliberately.

originally posted by: Konduit
And the only reason they can get away with this is because the US doesn't charge tariffs on the goods they are shipping back into the country. You can thank lobbyists and special interest groups for that.

I can thank people who understand that the US consumes far more than it can produce for that.

originally posted by: Konduit
Do you know why Harley-Davidson still exists? Because Ronald Reagan Put a 45% Tariff on Motorcycles Coming Into the US.

the motorcycles imported from Japan were mostly medium-weight bikes in the 700 to 850 cc range, that consumers realized that they were not substitutes for Harleys, and that anyway they were never directly competing with H-D products before 1983. 2- that Harley saved itself when it was bought by its management team and began operating independently of AMF in 1981. After H-D was bought back, the company quickly overhauled its styles, spent more on research and development to create new and more reliable models and strengthened its marketing and distribution channels. In the critics view, these managerial efforts that began in 1981, not the import relief, had much to do with Harley turnaround. That it was mere coincidence that it happened during the same period tariffs were in place - See more at: cyrilhuzeblog.com... 8uBEwF2.dpuf

originally posted by: Konduit
Trump is the only candidate promising to do the same thing with companies like Ford, Nabisco and Carrier Air Conditioner... essentially forcing them to either bring production back into the country or face a heavy tax (35%) which negates the profit they make from slave labor countries.

And if those companies choose not to invest in the same level of progress Harley did at the same time such tariffs were placed on the import of motorcycles, what do you imagine will happen?

Incidentally, It's quite remarkable that the same people who often scream about business freedom (when it suits them) then complain when those same corporations use their freedoms to make a profit through manufacturing in a cheaper location, and thereby offering the product at a cheaper price.

The Conservative American is a hypocrite, as always. You want your businesses to be able to pretty much do whatever they want, until it becomes an inconvenient political situation, then you selectively and carefully change your minds about that one specific thing and hope that no one notices

originally posted by: TaleDawn
The manufacturing job losses are mainly due because we are entering into the information era. So this was bound to happen eventually.

You replace humans with machines on the front and this what happens. The more tech grows the more Human jobs would be lost.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

originally posted by: Willtell
Thank the politicians in Washington for being bribed and lobbied by the corporate pigs who want to move their operations into slave wage countries and deprive the American worker of economic stability at the expense of their, 20, 30 and 40 million dollar a year salaries…with perks!


That’s it, that’s the sole reason for this con job led in this case by Bill Sleazyball Clinton aided and abetted by the Republican congress.

Now Obama is double downing on the future destruction of the American middleclass with TPP.

And the only champions of getting rid of this are, Donald Trump and Bernie, two unelectable candidates.

Remember in order to justify the move they had to create EPA rules and regulation that would ban or restrict manufacturing here. also the American's Unions wanted higher wages for their members (higher wages=higher dues) and so these locations where the regulations were not so strict and the labour cheap. So off to Mexico, India, China, Brazil, and Ecuador went our Manufacturing.

a reply to: Rocker2013

If you don't pay your employed enough money to buy the goods your manufacturing than its not worth manufacturing in the first place.

Reallllllyyyyyy simple. And yes mega corps put small businesses out of business because they can't compete with the prices. Their able to do this by purchasing things in larger quantities. Things the smaller businesses can't do.

a reply to: onequestion

Wow, you've really been doing some deep searching about this - your posts lately show the inner debate you're having. Thanks for sharing it with us; interesting to watch the progress of a young adult navigating these waters.....

It's awesome that you're paying attention.
S/F!!

a reply to: onequestion

When the giant mega corps decided to go public and buy out all the competition we began seeing wages decline and jobs move overseas.

These aren't the only sectors of the economy this effects these people retrain for different jobs and further devalue the rest of the market.

Right!

And many of the Americans are being forced to train their own replacements, knowing full well that those newly trained will receive half of the salary. If it were me, my personality would refuse - no, I won't train my replacement for you, and they won't receive a portion of MY SALARY while I do it. I was out the door when that happened.

People are having no choice but to 'retrain' - and it's costing them billions of dollars; if they don't, they are simply dropped from the labor pool list of candidates.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Thanks and I have no choice. The first ten years of my adult life were dedicated to a sport that i can't do and now I'm in a position of having to determine my future and the options are very very bleak

a reply to: onequestion

Thanks and I have no choice. The first ten years of my adult life were dedicated to a sport that i can't do and now I'm in a position of having to determine my future and the options are very very bleak

Actually, and I hope you take this in the spirit in which it is intended, at 28 years of age, you have only actually finished latent adolescence. That's when experimenting/dedicating oneself is more about learning what your limitations are - so try to think of it as having attempted that dream and discovered it was beyond your capacity. Oh well.

You TRIED. It wasn't your forte. So be it. What other interests do you have? Hey, giving it your best shot is all any of us can do. I have tried many endeavors to which I was extremely dedicated, but just unable to master: calculus, for example (I lack the abstract math gene), physics, physical tasks related to stamina....even job choices and relationships: I tried, I dedicated myself. So - oh well - that was a no-go.

What other things interest you? At 28, or 38, or even 48, you ALWAYS, ALWAYS have options.
The job of a young adult is to explore their interests, take chances. Now, you know. Move on, don't beat yourself up, and just keep swimming. You've got 50 years ahead of you - sounds like you're having a classic "quarter-life crisis." It's otherwise known as maturing.

All the best! Feel free to PM me (I actually studied this stuff, and am qualified and credentialed, if you need someone to toss around ideas with). Again, just the fact that you're facing your current circumstances and thinking of your options and way forward means you have won half the battle.

a reply to: onequestion

When a major change happened to me I was in a similar strait. So I listed out everything I could do and started listing it on Craig's list. Software hardware repair for computers, Painting, furniture repair, oil changes, house cleaning, building maintenance, dog walking stuff like that.

And for the two years I was out of work I was able to do Apartment painting. I offered my service to paint a two bedroom Apt no trim and no ceilings for $175 (you can get more depending on where you are at). It usually takes me one day around 10 hours to complete a two bedroom apt.

I had more work than I could do. with all those private Apt rentals in the area I am at. I was making over $800 a week. And they paid for the paint and all the supplies I needed to do the job.

I am almost ready to just quit my job and go do it again.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

And this sums up the problem. You consider $800 a week real money. That doesn't even put you in the top half of wage earners in the country, and that's something you're willing to walk away from a career for?

What these corporations and elected officials did undermines the security and sovereignty of this nation. The CEO's of these companies hide their money offshore so they don't have to pay taxes. They get bailouts on top of it all. Then they expect our kids to fight their wars while they sit in their castles and contribute nothing that makes America great. As far as I'm concerned it's treason. If they want to exploit us and other nations for nations for cheap labor maybe they should go live there. Why should they continue to have all the benefits of being American if they're not going to contribute anything to this country.

If it were up to me I would have started lobbing heads off a long time ago. Americans are to busy fighting among themselves to give a rats ass. The media manipulates and divides the people and Americans as a whole have become complacent. I honestly believe bloodshed through revolution is the only thing that will sort this out. If it ever came down to it I'm sure the government would turn the military on us.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Wow thanks for the well thought out response and the gif is hilarious.

I will and thank you.

a reply to: wantsome

I agree whole heartedly with you.

a reply to: Aazadan

It means he makes more than 74 million working people.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Aazadan

It means he makes more than 74 million working people.

I suppose that's one perspective. The other is that he gets $875 a week working 50 hours/week (plus the overhead of lining up work), normalized to $700/week at 40 hours to do a job which doesn't really have a higher ceiling than that. There is no room for advancement. In exchange for giving up on a future, he gets to sit 10% below the median income and at a wage that's effectively capped and comes with no benefits. I've said before, if you're making less than $23/hour you shouldn't be doing the job because that equates to 1967 minimum wage purchasing power, others like Dave Ramsey have a similar but different metric of 3x minimum wage which depending on the state ranges from $21/hour to $30/hour.

That doesn't necessarily make me right or you/the other person wrong, it's just another perspective. I suspect we differ greatly on the basic philosophy of work and what it should pay.

U.S. has lost 5 million manufacturing jobs ...

If the Bush & Obama administrations had not rotated the people who stack burgers and create submarine sandwiches into the 'building' and 'manufacturing' job descriptions---

then the 5 Million lost Manufacturing jobs would (in-reality) be closer to 20 Million Jobs...
thank god the government counts burger flippers as 'Industry & Manufacturing' and Catsup as a 'vegetable' in the school lunch programs... & pan-handlers are definitely sub-contractors in the gov't versions of the non-farm job growth figures every month


just a few examples of the 1984 newspeak we are being fed by the Globalist puppets we call MSM, & the 2 party system of Government here in the USA

have YOU got any PC Twists on the false reality propaganda the lefties and neocons are feeding us as 'official' statistics from DC, BLS, homeland screwity.... tyvm