U.S. has lost 5 million manufacturing jobs since 2000

What's with the spinning Rats above ATS..??

a reply to: Rocker2013

You obviously don't know how economics really works.

The only reason it is cheaper to manufacture overseas is because countries like China purposely (and often illegally) devalue their own currency to make it cheaper and steal jobs from other countries. And the only reason they can get away with this is because the US doesn't charge tariffs on the goods they are shipping back into the country. You can thank lobbyists and special interest groups for that.

Do you know why Harley-Davidson still exists? Because Ronald Reagan Put a 45% Tariff on Motorcycles Coming Into the US.

Trump is the only candidate promising to do the same thing with companies like Ford, Nabisco and Carrier Air Conditioner... essentially forcing them to either bring production back into the country or face a heavy tax (35%) which negates the profit they make from slave labor countries.

a reply to: Teddy916

Nice guinea pigs. Redefines thread drift.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: charlyv

Do we keep trudging against change and continue to think that we can solve the economy or do we change the problems with the system and distribution in the first place?

If we don't need people anymore for jobs what do we do?

That is a great question, in which I would answer in picking our leaders wisely, and being more involved collectively in what they do. Society is going to change big time. There are solutions out there that are radical... and it looks like we need to seriously consider them. If people refuse (or cannot) change professions when they see the signs that they will most likely not be viable anymore... we have to accommodate them in the interim. It is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

a reply to: onequestion

You see what was not known when Bill Clinton signed in 1993 and in 1994 two back to back 20 year trade agreements with the Chinese, was part of the agreement was to move US based Manufacturing to China.

We wont get out of any trade agreement with china until 2034 unless there is a war.

Since that time China has garnered all our trade and military secrets because of those trade agreements.

the spread the wealth campaign has been going on since then. China was once a poor nation now they are the richest their people were among the poorest now US people are among the poorest.

We were treated to a butt kicking by the Liberal left even as far back as the mid nineties.

time to get back what is ours and keep it.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

War it is.

a reply to: onequestion

I think that if anyone could find a loophole to get out of those China contracts, or could find a way to renegotiate new contracts that work for everyone to replace those contracts - it would be Trump.

That would be better than war.

a reply to: BlueAjah

So we're just going to sacrifice multiple generations to a contract?

Time to break the contract let China do as it pleases.

a reply to: onequestion

We probably are going to need some kind of agreement, because there is no way to totally stop trade.
We just need an agreement that is fair to both sides, but which favors the US return as a strong manufacturing country.
Without some kind of rules, it would become chaotic, and we would just be taken advantage again.

ETA: It goes without saying that the current trade agreements are horrible, and have hurt the US. They are very bad deals.
If those making those deals had known what they were doing, we would not be in this mess.

a reply to: BlueAjah

I'd be surprised if there weren't exit and renegotiate clauses worked into them.

If not then anyone who signed it needs to be fired and jailed immediately.

originally posted by: BlueAjah
We used to manufacture clothes, appliances, cars, furniture. We could be somewhat self sufficient as a country. Now we are almost totally dependent on other countries to supply us with the goods we need to survive. Of course a global economy has its benefits. But not when the strength and stability of one country is totally destroyed at the benefit of other countries.

Trump understands that the future of our country is looking very bleak, and I believe he wants to fix it, and knows how to do this.

There's something to be said for self sufficiency but there's also something to be said for interdependence. Interdependence not only makes countries more reliant on each other which lessens the likelihood of war but it leads to skill specialization which creates higher wages because the supply on labor for every specific job is less (skilled labor obviously). The flip side to that is it cuts large numbers of potential jobs out of the job market leading to unemployment and low wages on the necessary but non skilled positions which is what you see now where 80% of wage earners are declining in purchasing power and we have a population with skills that are no longer relevant to the job market.

Personally, I'm not really sure what the correct answer is. Mercantilism benefits just the country and does so in a short time frame while free trade ultimately benefits the whole world and brings about a much greater benefit to everyone if given enough time.

What I do know however is that the number of hours we need to work per capita is declining and whatever economic system we go with is going to require we take that into account and after considering that it makes me lean towards the concept of specialization as it leads to some very high wages for valuable work alongside lower wages which can be subsidized. The alternative leads to low skill positions being rather highly paid which is great for quality of life but not so good for global competitiveness, it ultimately leads to a lack in innovation.

I guess it comes down to what you would like to see from the country. Would you like to see a highly performing country that does and creates great things or would you rather have a nation that's a bit more humble with a comfortable life for all? Something in the middle is probably ideal but that's not very easy to achieve because both economic concepts tend to be all or nothing.

a reply to: BlueAjah

I think those who are behind the scenes knew what would happened they just didn't want the American people to know they were going to get the shaft.

Part of what propelled this was all the EPA rulings that were enforced in the eighties and nineties and since is what is keeping manufacturing out to the US and possible for good.

We need our own manufacturing base in case of world war.

That's ok, we have a few million more burger flippers now.

The manufacturing job losses are mainly due because we are entering into the information era. So this was bound to happen eventually.

You replace humans with machines on the front and this what happens. The more tech grows the more Human jobs would be lost.

a reply to: TaleDawn

Manufacturing has not been replaced with information.

Our "stuff" still comes from someplace. It does not magically appear out some information
Believe me, although some processes are more automated, it still takes many, many, people to manufacture.
There are millions of people in other countries doing jobs that could be done here, if manufacturers would have kept their plants here.

The manufacturing happens in other countries.

Some people might be too young to remember how different our country was when manufacturing plants were everywhere. People could get out of high school and be sure they could find a job someplace that paid a living wage. Manufacturing made America proud, and it felt good to buy things "Made in the USA". I have watched as plant after plant closed, and companies shipped their manufacturing overseas. I live in an area with many "ghost" buildings that used to be proud and bustling manufacturing plants. One of the biggest and proudest - is now a casino. So... yeah, that is what we have become now.

ETA: Billy Joel wrote a good song that describes the situation well

Thank the politicians in Washington for being bribed and lobbied by the corporate pigs who want to move their operations into slave wage countries and deprive the American worker of economic stability at the expense of their, 20, 30 and 40 million dollar a year salaries…with perks!


That’s it, that’s the sole reason for this con job led in this case by Bill Sleazyball Clinton aided and abetted by the Republican congress.

Now Obama is double downing on the future destruction of the American middleclass with TPP.

And the only champions of getting rid of this are, Donald Trump and Bernie, two unelectable candidates.

originally posted by: TaleDawn
The manufacturing job losses are mainly due because we are entering into the information era. So this was bound to happen eventually.

You replace humans with machines on the front and this what happens. The more tech grows the more Human jobs would be lost.

This is not true because were also losing IT jobs by millions as well.

HP, Dell, and Apple and many others have all moved much of their operations overseas.

I know because I was a consultant for HP for many years

...You call up their support and get an Indian accented guy named Frank or Charlie.

a reply to: Willtell

My friend works at IBM they are shipping tons of IT jobs to India. He does IT and his job is safe only because he works with a product almost no one at IBM understands.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Willtell

My friend works at IBM they are shipping tons of IT jobs to India. He does IT and his job is safe only because he works with a product almost no one at IBM understands.

Yeah it’s pitiful.


The IT companies even want foreigners over here because they figure their desperate and can pay them less than they can pay Americans.


They'll work long hours and won't demand overtime like Americans.

Just more corporate abuse and greed


This will be the downfall of America, corporate greed

a reply to: onequestion

U.S. has lost 5 million manufacturing jobs since 2000........ Yes, but where have they gone. Where is most of the goods in the world today made?

its not the US, many other countries have suffered the same fate and I suggest that if you study Agenda 21 you will gain insight into why this interesting development may have occurred.