Black "Privelege"? or White Arrogance?

The problem with the human mind is that its logic is functionally circular. What we claim about the world is logically, and psychologically, circular, because our brains are logically, and causally, circular.

Now, without sounding condescending, if you had trouble understanding that first sentence, there is a very high likelihood that you didn't "assimilate" or properly understand, the underlying logic of my approach. That thing we call "cognitive" or "conceptual", is not something immediately obvious, but something fundamentally constrained by early life brain development. To put what I'm saying into simpler language, you don't understand what you don't want to understand. Until we humans can come to acknowledge how deep our self-deception goes, we are, no doubt, going to destroy the civilizations we have created and probably leave ourselves into a dystopian condition which we may as well regard as a process ofdevolution.

No one wants that, so lets recognize that human beings are natural dissociators. In terms of evolution, biology and psychology, the term we use when encountering difficulties in functioning is "adaptation". To adapt is to try to find some better and more comfortable (or stable) state vis a vis the outside perturbation. Adaptation is at the basis of life, from the first cell to the complex multicellular organisms we call animals. Life is NEVER the same, but always adapting and evolving itself with reference to its environment. Not sometimes, but ALL THE TIME. Capitalized letters can sometimes be annoying to read, but this deserves mentioning: your body is an insanely complex construction of at least 80 trillion different cells, and that doesn't include the trillions of microscopic bacterial cells that live in us and on us.

So, with this reference in mind (our dissociativeness, or tendency to turn our attention away from ideas or concepts we don't want to know i.e. because it disturbs how we emotionally feel) lets look at the very simple reality of blacks in America. But the story cannot be isolated, freezing the present and breaking it off from the causal relationships with the past. Life evolves with reference to constraints, contexts, and continuity. Therefore, being sold into slavery and being related to over many generations in a deprecatory and dominating way, the human organism, American Africanus, came to change not merely physically, but emotionally and cognitively (what they felt and thought) which, we must recognize, was always CORRELATIVE in nature. This means that the internal state was a physical embodiment of the communicative cues (both non-verbal and verbal) coming from the dominant society. Because humans evolved in small-band tribal groups, our thinking is intrinsically comparative in nature. When we think (with symbols and concepts) an emotional logic that takes into account the self-in-context, or it's status vis-a-vis others, frames how we think. Thus, whites naturally identify with other whites, and blacks with others blacks. And each of them experiences the other in terms of their own intrinsic needs vis-a-vis this "comparative logic" of status. So, blacks, having been reduced as slaves, and essentially treated as sub-human, are (with this present condition) experiencing themselves as pathetic and shameful. These are the emotions, by the way, that emerge when one person bullies another person. The bullier, blinded by his own experience of dominance, fails to notice the shame-state forced into the experience of the other by his dominating actions.

What happens in our minds as we communicate with one another is function of how we pay attention to the needs of the other. Of course, how well we pay attention: who really thinks this piously? Monks, philosophers, scientists. Thinkers may do this, but for the most part, the mind of an adult Human Being reacts reflexively when he thinks, so his thinking is largely reflective of his own developmental history and early-life attachments. Thus, people who "pay attention to the needs of others", is really simply a person who reacts to the output (or expressivity) of other peoples actions in a positive way. And for them to do this, they needed to have a similar early-life context that "scaffolded" this way of reacting (embodied in the caregiver) so that their engagements with others had this fundamental expectancy. Remember my mention of 'circular causality'? This is an example of that: people only react to others in ways reminiscent of earlier-relationships. If freezing before speaking was typical of your early-life, with continued brain develop, the complexity of your later cognitive "phenotype" is likely to be an "elaboration" of this core emotional issue. Anyone who looks shy has a reason for that. Likewise, the open person. And so too the arrogant narcissist (read: Donald Trump). It takes wisdom to stop and think, whereas the bully (Trump) just wants to go ahead and take advantage of his advantage. How that advantage came to be in the first place, however, will, as etched out in this post, not want to be consciously known. Like a power-obsessed ape, only those thoughts which enter their reflexive mind will be engaged with, and at the same time, everything you say will enter a particular category within their expected rhetoric. Their rhetoric, or what they plan to say, is all thats in their mind as they hear you or as they read your words. And this reality matches up quite well with neuroscientific finding that show that the thalamus (deep center of the brain, center of the limbic system) actually sends out 6 times as much information to the cortex than receives information. This has been interpreted (quite properly and plausibly) as evidence that what we think we know is a function of what we EMOTIONALLY NEED. We are not rational creatures, but emotional creatures that need to do work to think rationally.

So to be rational means to listen. To be able to listen, requires that you be able to inhibit your immediate emotional arousal (BTW, this capacity to inhibit our affective arousal is a recent evolution to our vagus nerve, creating an area of very large motor neurons that regulate the unmyelinated parasympathetic neurons of the vagus. Because of these neurons, we can use our mind to inhibit feelings in our body, by controlling how we breath and also how we relate to certain affects (feelings in the body)). Then, if you do this, I think most rational people can recognize some basic things:

Trauma is inherited by "cyclical psychodynamic" cycles of relational functioning that rebuilds in each generation certain autonomic, affective and cognitive habits that are, of course, built into the cellular architecture of the brain and body.

African Americans, on the whole, remain "constrained" by the social and institutional aspects of their societies, in relation to society in general, by retaining habits of perception (believing) and affection (feeling) that ultimately can be seen to stem from conditions when they had didn't have equal rights (the hundred year period between emancipation and civil rights movement) as well as when they were slaves. Society has not done enough to change the system-patterns that maintain this dynamic. Constraints, must be lifted. Contexts must be made more amenable to growth. And most of all, continuity must be acknowledged.

edit on 30-3-2016 by Astrocyte because: (no reason given)

a reply to: Astrocyte

If that is the case, it is of their own making.

The Irish were treated much worse for way longer, and then sold as slaves for fractions of a black slaves worth.

Today, do Irish decents act like idiots and blame it on the past they didn't even live through?

No?

Then your entire post is as worthless as your attempt to use idiot speak to church it up and make it sound important.

There is not one single concept that can't be stated plainly, the fact you said it like you did is an attempt to shroud the BS you just typed behind a wall of crap.

a reply to: Sargeras

If that is the case, it is of their own making.

So you didn't understand anything I wrote.

Are you a biological organism? Yes. You are. You, your mind, and yes, your beliefs, are also circularly created.

The Irish were treated much worse for way longer, and then sold as slaves for fractions of a black slaves worth. Today, do Irish decents act like idiots and blame it on the past they didn't even live through?

Way to provide analysis. Do you think this qualifies as a proof? Just say something, and people will accept it?

Think about this: maybe your statement only appears true to you (and others) because you HAVEN'T BOTHERED to do any searching for proximate-causes for why Irish people are better off (or even appear better off).

I haven't done such work, but I can postulate based on first causes (in biology and mind) that the Irish got out VIA OUTSIDE SUPPORT.

There is not one single concept that can't be stated plainly, the fact you said it like you did is an attempt to shroud the BS you just typed behind a wall of crap.

Really? You think everything that can be said can be said simply? Do you think the concepts that underlie your use of this computer are simple? And if they were explained to you - abstractly, no doubt - would you also dissociate from the shame/frustration you feel in struggling to understand (or not having the proper preparation to understand?)?

Not likely. I'd imagine your magical view that "not one thing can't be stated simply" is something your mind dreamt up to keep yourself from feeling wrong.

originally posted by: Astrocyte
a reply to: Sargeras

If that is the case, it is of their own making.

So you didn't understand anything I wrote.

Are you a biological organism? Yes. You are. You, your mind, and yes, your beliefs, are also circularly created.

The Irish were treated much worse for way longer, and then sold as slaves for fractions of a black slaves worth. Today, do Irish decents act like idiots and blame it on the past they didn't even live through?

Way to provide analysis. Do you think this qualifies as a proof? Just say something, and people will accept it?

Think about this: maybe your statement only appears true to you (and others) because you HAVEN'T BOTHERED to do any searching for proximate-causes for why Irish people are better off (or even appear better off).

I haven't done such work, but I can postulate based on first causes (in biology and mind) that the Irish got out VIA OUTSIDE SUPPORT.

There is not one single concept that can't be stated plainly, the fact you said it like you did is an attempt to shroud the BS you just typed behind a wall of crap.

Really? You think everything that can be said can be said simply? Do you think the concepts that underlie your use of this computer are simple? And if they were explained to you - abstractly, no doubt - would you also dissociate from the shame/frustration you feel in struggling to understand (or not having the proper preparation to understand?)?

Not likely. I'd imagine your magical view that "not one thing can't be stated simply" is something your mind dreamt up to keep yourself from feeling wrong.

No my making is not circular, my making, and that of all life is linear.

As in a forward progression from single celled to present.

Lol

As for the rest.... Actual smart people can explain general relativity, quantum mechanics and anything else plainly.

Only those trying to confuse or deceive need hide easily understood concepts behind a veil of rediculous babble, hence how politicians talk.

Which is exactly what you did in your op.

a reply to: Astrocyte
I'm sorry I clicked on this thread. That's all. Have a nice night

a reply to: Sargeras

Then your entire post is as worthless as your attempt to use idiot speak to church it up and make it sound important.

Well, I understood all of it so I guess I must be fluent in idiot-speak.

a reply to: Astrocyte

Cognitive dissonance is a human feature, not some black bug in the system.

Have a nice day now! And screw that Eugenics BS btw.

originally posted by: Astrocyte
The problem with the human mind is that its logic is functionally circular but LINEAR (not abstract). What we claim about the world is logically, and psychologically, circular, because our brains are logically, and causally, circular.Now, without sounding condescending, if you had trouble understanding that first sentence, there is a very high likelihood that you didn't "assimilate" or properly understand, the underlying logic of my approach

Logic; that which is reasonable/understandable (not functionally circular). A reasoning human would call this 'common sense'. Question: what describes creativity (that which is not logical) but magical and cannot be learned within the pages of book someone wrote that you happened to read because it was part of a curriculum signed up for? You cannot learn creativity; it is an intrinsic part of the human soul/mind and naturally occurs because humans are cunning/inventive. You have not named a Logic God/writer of any treatise: my choice invented; "Mr. Logistics", (a branch of military science maneuvers).

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: Sargeras

Then your entire post is as worthless as your attempt to use idiot speak to church it up and make it sound important.

Well, I understood all of it so I guess I must be fluent in idiot-speak.

Most intelligent folks are.

It is the ability to see it for what it is that is actually important.

The entire objective of this post, was to try and make people reading this feel "stupid" in order to validate your own hypothesis.

Thats a pretty low approach IMHO in order to try and make a point.

This whole OP can be summed up as "You dont understand, so youre stupid, therefore I am right"

Typical, intellectually dishonest, and disgusting.

a reply to: Astrocyte

The problem with the human mind is that its logic is functionally circular. What we claim about the world is logically, and psychologically, circular, because our brains are logically, and causally, circular.

If the mind was circular we wouldn't learn anything, and we would be in an endless Jourdain paradox. I don't see how your initial premise is true.

Edit to add:

Star and Flag. Don't stop writing. But don't bother grouping people according to the similarity of minor exterior features and qualities such as skin color, or you might as well group people according to height, weight, foot size, age, baldness, eye color while you're at it. Racism in its widest meaning is the belief that humans can be subdivided into race. And they cannot, save maybe for descriptive or anthropological reasons. Otherwise, the overlap is endless, and any theory regarding links between outer features and behavior, intelligence, are falsified the moment any case proves the opposite, and there are many of them. To project words and thoughts and intentions and reasons into people according to a such a superficial category, is the cause of all this nonsense and mistake. Don't even bother identifying any one in that way. And hell, don't even identify yourself in that way. We don't exist solely in our pigments or epidermis. Rather, remove the category of race from your method, and the belief that has any meaning, and racism disappears.

a reply to: Astrocyte

I love how you took all that time to type out all that blabber to fit in how it correlates to Trump lol.

Seriously though... It is simply a state of mind mixed with bad culture. Culture of wanting to stay on welfare and have babies they cannot afford while thinking thug life is cool...

There are no social constructs holding them back.

Stopped feeding the PC machine... They are Americans

When can we just forget about race? I would like to point out when people call something for being racist they are themselves for thinking that way.

BTW....

WE HAVE A BLACK PRESIDENT.

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: Astrocyte
Cognitive dissonance is a human feature, not some black bug in the system.

Mandelbrot's repeating black bug beetle algorithm at the heart of the Chaos fractal system is REALLY FUN!

a reply to: Astrocyte

originally posted by: CrazyWater
The entire objective of this post, was to try and make people reading this feel "stupid" in order to validate your own hypothesis.

Thats a pretty low approach IMHO in order to try and make a point.

This whole OP can be summed up as "You dont understand, so youre stupid, therefore I am right"

Typical, intellectually dishonest, and disgusting.

That is the way I saw it as well.

There is no need to talk in such a way other than deception.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Mandelbrot's black bug beetle algorithm at the heart of the Chaos fractal system is REALLY FUN!

lol! That's some frank talking, blaze away!

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Astrocyte

Lesmisnthrope: If the mind was circular we wouldn't learn anything, and we would be in an endless Jourdain paradox. I don't see how your initial premise is true.

Thats right. The premise is true just not logical. Those caught in circular thinking (hamster wheel) are diagnosed as ADHD/OCD/ ..etal. Logical thinking is linear/not abstract.

a reply to: Sargeras

The Irish were treated much worse for way longer, and then sold as slaves for fractions of a black slaves worth.

This is demonstrably false. I'm pretty sure I've called you out on it before. You heard that some where and you've just blithely repeating it because it fits your world view but not because it's true. It's a pervasive myth but it can be traced back to perhaps three sources: two pseudo-historical books White Cargo: The Forgotten History of Britain's White Slaves in America and To Hell or Barbados and a book self-published by a holocaust denier who claims that Jews were behind the slave trade in the Americas —They Were White and They Were Slaves: The Untold History of the Enslavement of Whites in Early America.

Please care enough to investigate for yourself so you can stop spreading misinformation.

Today, do Irish decents act like idiots and blame it on the past they didn't even live through?

Given a need to justify your prejudices with a belief that seems reasonable and born of objective analysis, you've made use of the the myth exactly as it was intended. You're not only complicit in your own delusion, you're contributing to the delusion of others.

In 1959, the average black male made 52% of what the average white male made. By 1974, this had risen to 61% but then we hit peak manufacturing employment followed by a regression. What do you think that number is today? It bounces around in the low-mid 70's. When there have been economic downturns and the unemployment rate has gone up, it's gone up higher for a longer period of time for black people. As a group, they haven't had an opportunity to build intergenerational wealth so there's less to fall back on. Economically depressed areas have predictably poor education and infrastructure. Lack of economic opportunity is nearly universally tied to an increase of gang membership in urban areas (I'm sure you're aware of the rise of Irish gangs in the mid-19th century?). Then there has been the disproportionate effects of "The War on Drugs."

Proper integration will require an even footing that will only ever be achieved by successive generations of employment opportunities that don't exist. The movement of more and more white people out of the middle class (as it shrinks) if it continues, will in my estimation, lead to increased racial tensions. We can all rise together but let our mutual prosperity falter and you can best believe that there will be a predictable uptick in the "us" vs "them" mentality. It's a repeating pattern in American history and we're seeing signs of it right now in my opinion.

Well this was 5 minutes of my life i'm never getting back..oh well let me not prolong it.

a reply to: theantediluvian

Proper integration will require an even footing that will only ever be achieved by successive generations of employment opportunities that don't exist. The movement of more and more white people out of the middle class (as it shrinks) if it continues, will in my estimation, lead to increased racial tensions. We can all rise together but let our mutual prosperity falter and you can best believe that there will be a predictable uptick in the "us" vs "them" mentality. It's a repeating pattern in American history and we're seeing signs of it right now in my opinion.

Precisely. And given the neolib's War on Education, we'll see even more division via private schooling on the one hand and austerity cuts on the other.

“There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”

Warren Buffett