Black "Privelege"? or White Arrogance?

Too late at night to read this and make a proper response.
After breakfast and coffee I will try reading this again.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: Sargeras

The Irish were treated much worse for way longer, and then sold as slaves for fractions of a black slaves worth.

This is demonstrably false. I'm pretty sure I've called you out on it before. You heard that some where and you've just blithely repeating it because it fits your world view but not because it's true. It's a pervasive myth but it can be traced back to perhaps three sources: two pseudo-historical books White Cargo: The Forgotten History of Britain's White Slaves in America and To Hell or Barbados and a book self-published by a holocaust denier who claims that Jews were behind the slave trade in the Americas —They Were White and They Were Slaves: The Untold History of the Enslavement of Whites in Early America.

Please care enough to investigate for yourself so you can stop spreading misinformation.

Today, do Irish decents act like idiots and blame it on the past they didn't even live through?

Given a need to justify your prejudices with a belief that seems reasonable and born of objective analysis, you've made use of the the myth exactly as it was intended. You're not only complicit in your own delusion, you're contributing to the delusion of others.

In 1959, the average black male made 52% of what the average white male made. By 1974, this had risen to 61% but then we hit peak manufacturing employment followed by a regression. What do you think that number is today? It bounces around in the low-mid 70's. When there have been economic downturns and the unemployment rate has gone up, it's gone up higher for a longer period of time for black people. As a group, they haven't had an opportunity to build intergenerational wealth so there's less to fall back on. Economically depressed areas have predictably poor education and infrastructure. Lack of economic opportunity is nearly universally tied to an increase of gang membership in urban areas (I'm sure you're aware of the rise of Irish gangs in the mid-19th century?). Then there has been the disproportionate effects of "The War on Drugs."

Proper integration will require an even footing that will only ever be achieved by successive generations of employment opportunities that don't exist. The movement of more and more white people out of the middle class (as it shrinks) if it continues, will in my estimation, lead to increased racial tensions. We can all rise together but let our mutual prosperity falter and you can best believe that there will be a predictable uptick in the "us" vs "them" mentality. It's a repeating pattern in American history and we're seeing signs of it right now in my opinion.

This is absolutely not false for a fact!!!

My family still has our ancestors " freedom papers" to prove it!!!

This is like holocaust denial!!!

It is a fact!

This happened!!!

Oh but I forget, they called it " indentured servitude " which means it wasn't slavery right?

They just had to work for free every day at their " employers" behest.... What is slavery again?

You know, they own you get to force you to work for free, and can buy and sell you at their whim... But sure, it wasn't slavery...... Retarded BS semantics argument if I ever saw one.

a reply to: Sargeras

Oh but I forget, they called it " indentured servitude " which means it wasn't slavery right?

Indentured servitude is not chattel slavery. They are completely different things that you are conflating, likely because the source of the myth you have come to believe conflated them for you.. I will definitely have to post a thread about this in dissection disinformation when I have more time.

My family still has our ancestors " freedom papers" to prove it!!!

I have records of my Irish ancestors purchasing and later selling two slaves around the turn of the 19th century. I have tax rolls and census records showing indentured servants who were also Irish. In fact, I have read family stories, I've read historical accounts of daily life from the revolutionary and civil war period family letters, books, newspapers, etc because it just so happens that aside from what I would otherwise know of American history, I also happen to have done fairly extensive genealogical research.

Indentured servitude is not chattel slavery. The two are being conflated and at the same time, conditions of indentured servitude in the colonies/America is being conflated with that of Caribbean colonies and even then, some of the claims being made are dubious. On top of that, you're giving absolutely no thought to changing laws, sentiment, trends in immigration, etc.

Did you know that at lest half (and by some estimates, as many as two thirds) of the Europeans in the colonies at the outset of the American Revolution had arrived under indenture?

Nobody is saying that indentured servitude isn't bad or that Irish haven't faced deplorable circumstances but you believe a myth and you're promoting it as truth. Worse yet is your reason for believing in and spreading the myth.

originally posted by: Sargeras
a reply to: Astrocyte

If that is the case, it is of their own making.

The Irish were treated much worse for way longer, and then sold as slaves for fractions of a black slaves worth.

Today, do Irish decents act like idiots and blame it on the past they didn't even live through?

No?

Then your entire post is as worthless as your attempt to use idiot speak to church it up and make it sound important.

There is not one single concept that can't be stated plainly, the fact you said it like you did is an attempt to shroud the BS you just typed behind a wall of crap.

" use idiot speak to church it up and make it sound important. "- That's awesome!

And this would be the problem with society. Psychology is the root of the problem, people get a PhD in understanding the human brain and emotional responses. You trying to label groups and expected outcomes by gender, race, economic standing, and cultural factors. These things are not predictors of future behaviors but instead should be used to understand an individual person on case by case basis to help people understand themselves. That is where the quackery of psychology and the true uses of it lie. If you try to predict future behavior based on generalities you will paint everyone into a box instead of helping people understand how to better themselves.

Sounds like somebody just finished up their first year of psych classes.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: Sargeras

Indentured servitude is not chattel slavery.

Of course not.

They just signed a 7-year contract that turned into 50 years based on "behavior". And were denied over and over again the promises presented to them at the time of the agreement. Oh, and if they died then the contract was assigned to their children.

Also, many African slaves were duped by the same practice and still successfully grail the term "slave"; it really isn't as different as you've convinced yourself it is.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

It's circular, yet it is accumulative. Hebbs law (a neurological law) says what 'fires together wires together', which basically means the neurons in our brains are information hungry; however, they are not thermodynamically invincible. Lack of use will lead to degradation, and with it, the quality of any particular skill we had up till then cultivated.

Is this not a circular process? It is. So how are we to think about this? You see a problem with the logic, yet the etiology, ontogenesis, and phylogeny of all developing biological systems is in fact fundamentally circular - just take the carbon-oxygen cycle between animals and trees. This is the essential basis of all developing systems on earth, from the smallest cell to the most complicated animal i.e. us.

Our thinking is nested within these processes, which means, and as developmental psychology and biology make absolutely irrefutable, are thinking is also circular, but this time between what we perceive (and experience) and what we we expect (or act). Perception and action. Eventually, as we grow more cognitively complex, our internal universe is structured by what we perceive about our selves when we find ourselves accosted with certain feelings (this being the gift/burden of being a human being: the mind has become tantamount to an external environment). Now, we make adaptations within our own mental space, which adds more and more complexity, and indeed, different centers of organization (a 'self state') within our more basic window of perception (ego).

Reality is circular. And it is utterly tragic that human beings, so many within this thread, do not understand how the world works, and so unconsciously and unwittingly feed into dynamics that are delusional and dangerous (to the viability of our species).

a reply to: TexasSeabee

I see what you're saying.

However, we are structurally identical organisms. This structural similarily is a consequence of functional similarity, which means our brains are genetically programmed to search for the same information so as to make meaning out of one anothers actions.

Don't dogs do this and whales? And isn't it ok to generalize certain things about whale or dog functioning based upon how they respond to one another? All that I have claimed is that humans are at root fundamentally sensitive to one another's judgements, so that a pattern of negative relational communucations with important others will create expectancies. This applies to every biological creature that has ever been studied, and any self aware human being can also witness it within his or her mind whenever they experience themselves negatively as a result of a particular facial cue from another face, itself judging the other, inasmuch as their facial expressions are dynamically tethered to their shifting emotional state.

We need to pay attention to these sorts of things. But it's hard!