Vulnerabilities of Wireless Two-way Communications

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Insult me?! No way in hell friend! Im on your side! I volunteer because I like giving back...but I dont agree with everything.

Ive also gone on record that while Im helping load those FEMA trains(if they exist) in the darkest days ahead...Im not so foolish as to not believe theyll push me too on the last one out afterwards.

Everything is an agenda...a dual one. One we know, one I know(volunteers), one you are told, one none of us are told, the real one, and the hidden ulterior motive only THEY know.

But at least I know that all goin' in. Stay well, friend. I enjoy your posting.

Remember. We both share nearly the same 10-20....and the same thinking....

Copy? 10-4 MS-clear...

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Ego te absolvo, in nomine Einstein, et Neumann, et spiritu Feynman

Bless me Swamp Buck for I have been a smart ass.


Nice write-up of the vulnerabilities of 2-way radio communication. When conventional communications is down, we'll have to fall back on 2-way radios. It makes sense to be aware of the operational vulnerabilities of these systems and the need to protect them.

We'll have to agree to disagree about Ham Radio Operators becoming government tools. Not all of us will be toeing the government line.



BTW: Shouldn't "spiritu" be "Sancti" ?

-dex

originally posted by: intrptr

Not really, they are quite different, both in cause and effect.

I believe I said, "when it comes to electronics".

Induced current in conductors like circuits, wires and even railways… zzzt.

Even when it comes to electronics, it's different. You have to protect differently for the two, both in space and on the ground.

There's no fast component to a CME, for instance. It's all heave. The geomagnetic heave is different for a CME and for a nuke as well - it affects what you'd have to do for protection, if they bothered to at all.

a reply to: mysterioustranger

So Mysterious, you're near my 10-20 then? Good to know you're around here somewhere.

When the SHTF I intend to use the "Channel 3 Project" developed by AmRRON (American Redoubt Radio Operators Network) and TAPRN (The American Preparedness Radio Network) when communicating on unlicensed two-ways. That is CB Ch 3 (26.985 MHz), FRS Ch 3 (462.6125MHz) and MURS Ch 3 (151.940Mhz) as contact frequencies. I developed a call sign system and will be known as SWM-0640 (Sierra Whiskey Mike Zero Six Four Zero) and the handle is Swamp Buck of course.

I hope to be in contact with the ham operators if necessary and have a list of everyone in my transmit range stored in my computer. The F.C.C. does allow for unlicensed use of the amateur frequencies if there is an actual emergency, but quite a few hams still use the CB anyway. It's not like Uncle Charley is going to come after me if the situation is bad enough.

a reply to: DexterRiley

Thanks for the reply Dexter Riley. Of course I realize that not all amateur radio operators will be tight with the man, but many will be hooked into the system. Not that this is a bad thing really, I'm sure it would be good at first until there is a nasty crack down on all of us "domestic terrorists". It all comes down to personal conscience when things get dicey.

Concerning the Latin phrase, that's a bit of a private joke with Bedlam and myself. You should be directing that to him to be absolved from your sins (bows head and begins prayers).

a reply to: Bedlam

So Bedlam, it appears that you don't believe there is much going on to protect communications systems from EMPs. I was under the impression that lightning protection would help protect from EMPs as well.

Of course with my flawed and limited mental capacity, I must have been mistaken about that, please forgive my ignorance (begins praying again). Though we are not worthy, perhaps you can grace us with your bountiful wisdom and enlighten us with your limitless knowledge on all things scientific? Please use simple language that can be understood by children with a 5th grade reading level.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Yes, I am. I also have a log cabin cottage north of my home location in the Huron National Forest along the AuSable river. Amish-Menonite country up there as well.

It will be people like you in a pinch that will keep the lines of communication open....

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck
a reply to: mysterioustranger

I have posted a number of threads on the subject but shy away form getting a Ham ticket or being involved with those guys. In my opinion the amateur radio scene is counter productive for an open source network and it makes your personal information available to anyone who wanted to look up your call sign.

IMO, the ham crowd would be in the pocket of Uncle Sam during an emergency or crisis, not to mention a government crack down on dissenting citizens. Plus many of the ham operators have an exclusive attitude that sticks in my craw.

I'd rather use unlicensed frequencies and stick to personal matters if normal lines of communications were blacked out for any reason. Not that I wouldn't help on occasion if the hams were to talk on the unlicensed frequencies in such situations. I also believe that the F.C.C. is over restrictive and don't want to play their games either if I can avoid it.

I have been saying that for years on ATS haha.... and believe me the ham crowd is in Uncle Sam's pocket, crisis or no crisis. They will bust yo a$$ for anything they deem unacceptable, dissent, anti-fed etc... Most emergency volunteers think they are working for the Feds/fbi/cia etc.... seriously.

However, you are missing out by not being active in the ham radio community, as your list is somewhat wrong.... You can still be anonymous with your radio activity while licensed. I hold an extra and use unlicensed frequencies all the time, especially in the 1750-meter band. I mostly do QRP CW work for fun.

You can't hide your chatter from modern technology, especially from something simple as SDR, unless you use some form of encryption, and even then some hams find decryption enjoyable.

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

I was engineer for a remote meter reader. All one needs do is decode the
transmitting frequencies, determine what content is in the wireless
messages, usually a layer in a protocol stack, and try to understand what
information is being transmitted back and forth in the wireless
communications channel.

It requires insiders to code interfaces to steal the data, maybe from a
wireless modem, and intrude into the network accessing files on the
target machine.

Most quality hardware and devices are made with military standard EMP
resistant components and would withstand or recover functionality
quickly in that event. Hardware that would be permanently disabled
by EMP or by massive explosions of thermonuclear matter from the sun
would necessarily be in close or direct proximity to the damaging pulse
/ wave of energy.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

a reply to: imitator

Imitator, you said the following . . .

You can still be anonymous with your radio activity while licensed.

How can the F.C.C. not know who you are unless you provide fraudulent personal information when you apply?

Can you have your call sign and information with held from the F.C.C.'s public list of licenses?

How can one be anonymous with their amateur operator's license? Please tell us how this can be done.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Ted Koeppel just released a book called 'Lights Out: A Cyberattack, A Nation Unprepared, Surviving the Aftermath'. I also hear EMPs in regards to the electrical grid, particularly of America, and the need to insulate it mentioned all the time on Coast to Coast AM.

Are we getting close to an orchestrated attack - sometime in 2016 or 2017? Or are these issues of EMP just "something to keep in mind"?

a reply to: corsair00

I would have said the nuclear blast that created the EMP would be more of a problem..

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

No you can't apply fraudulent information, but you can use P.O. Box, change your address, change your name etc... the government will still know who you are, and the locals will be clueless.

If you pay taxes and have a driver license you have nothing to worry about, as your already in a government database with public information.

You can only be more anonymous, not totally anonymous, even without a license your not anonymous... any ham could track a signal easily and get a location fix, gather public information etc.

Being anonymous takes creativity...

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck
a reply to: Bedlam

So Bedlam, it appears that you don't believe there is much going on to protect communications systems from EMPs. I was under the impression that lightning protection would help protect from EMPs as well.

The fast wave from a nuke will pretty much get past lightning protection. The slow wave from a CME is often the sort of thing that would work for.

In fact, the fast component will often do a lot of damage to the receiver anyway. However, it's pretty capricious. I've tested commercial equipment that sailed through the EMP test with no protection and mil grade systems that failed every time.

However, I was thinking more of long line distribution systems when I wrote that post. They know how to fix it, they just won't.

a reply to: Bedlam

Thanks for your well informed and knowledgeable reply Bedlam. I've come to have great respect for your expertise in these areas even though I may tend to mess with you a bit on occasion. It's all meant to be humorous and not disrespectful - thanks again.

Star and a thumbs up!

a reply to: imitator

but you can use P.O. Box, change your address, change your name etc

Really? I was under the impression you weren't allowed to do that. I find that hard to believe (no disrespect intended) and will be checking into that more. Having a work around like that would get me more interested in trying for a license though, thanks.

You wouldn't happen to have a link to the rules that support that statement? If not, I don't mind searching for it even though the F.C.C. rules can get pretty thick and somewhat hard to understand in some sections.

Another problem you'll have to contend with is after a high altitude nuclear detonation, the ionosphere is going to be enhanced, and irregular.

You'll be working skip with VHF.

originally posted by: Bedlam
Another problem you'll have to contend with is after a high altitude nuclear detonation, the ionosphere is going to be enhanced, and irregular.

You'll be working skip with VHF.

Skip on VHS? I find that to be highly unusual! Amazing actually, but not unbelievable.

I have noticed when comparing VHF and UHF running the same equipment at the same output, that the VHF seems to do better at the same distance. I had the thought that the lower frequency of VHF contributed to more ground wave propagation and improved the LOS signal reception somewhat.

There was one time when I had experienced VHF and UHF skip on broadcast TV back before the broadcasts were switched over to digital. One weekend before heading from the Detroit area where I lived to the northern thumb, I was picking up stations from all over the place and the reception was quite good. 100 plus miles north in the thumb, I was finding signal on most every channel on the dial. It was truly amazing to me that skip conditions were doing that, esp. when I was lucky to pick up two stations on a normal basis. I've never encountered that since.

I couldn't tell you what was going on with the sun at that time, it was before internet was in public use. I don't remember any news about it at any rate.

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck

I couldn't tell you what was going on with the sun at that time, it was before internet was in public use. I don't remember any news about it at any rate.

Normally, anything over about 6MHz starts going through the ionosphere instead of bouncing off, and that will vary with time of day and space weather. If it's really active, you can get up to about 30MHz before it punches through.

But after a HAND, it's going to be really really hot up there. The electron temperature will be off the scale, and the density of the ionosphere will be ungodly high. The ionosphere will start reflecting higher and higher frequencies instead of passing them. This cuts off satellite comms, and causes ca-razy atmospherics. Worse, the ionosphere will ripple for weeks - inducing a ground current which then causes ionospheric rippling back and forth between them, it takes a while to damp out. While that's going on, you will have spotty-to-no communication unless you're sticking to ground waves.

Now, a ground wave setup would be ideal for a post-HAND or post-CME environment, but it's a pesky thing to build.