Two More Bundys Arrested: The Mindless Unconstitutional Government Rolls On

originally posted by: wildb
a reply to: yuppa

OH i do have soemthing i found interesting on th e finicum debacle.FINICUMS wife and lawyers said:This was not a traffic stop. It was an ambush with a roadblock placed on a blind curve along a lonely stretch of highway. I am told that in law enforcement and prosecuting circles this is called a “Deadman’s blockade,” and is designed to allow a “kill stop” which is illegal,” stated the widow.

Do you have a source for this ?

Justt google search for it.

originally posted by: Southern Guardian
a reply to: wasaka

Just curious here, what unconstitutional action by the government were Bundy and his band of militiaman fighting against when they took over that refuge? I was under the impression they were there to protest unfair sentences being handed down to other ranchers?

Depending on one's perspective, which is important to understand his mindset, they could be perceived as violating the 8th amendment. Without regards to the excessive our unfair fines clause consider the cruel and unusual punishment. Cruel and unusual punishment is usually thought to cover torture and stuff, but excessive punishment for a particular crime also falls under the definition. I'm not saying that the ranchers' punishments are excessive for their "crimes", but if that is one's perception, then it isn't difficult to understand their plight. To them the federal government is in violation of the constitution. Are they truly in violation? I can't be certain. That's another debate.

It feels like federal and state governments are always in violation of the 8th under those terms. Look at our judicial system. Look at the sentencing for relatively small stuff. Oh well, it is what it is... Whatever it actually is.

originally posted by: Pyle

Well they will get their day in court to prove they did nothing wrong. Arrest does not equal guilty.

Well, while I agree that arrest does not equal guilty, you also can't just run around arresting people without at least some just cause. But that being also said, I do believe that you can detain people for a certain amount of time in a holding cell while an investigation is ongoing in order to isolate them, but a certain point (for some reason 72 hours is in my head) you must let them go if you have nothing on which to book them.

But here's the main problem with your comment--Americans don't have the onus of proving innocence in a court of law. It is the government (or accuser) who must prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. We are ALL innocent until proven guilty.

None of these people must prove that they are innocent of anything.

Honestly, the Bundy's (and all free grazers) are moochers.

They know it is cheaper to pay the fee than actually tend to their own land/pay taxes for their land.

I tend to my land, I make sure my land is sustainable for my horses. The Bundy clan are moochers deluxe stealing from everyone by not paying the pittance that the BLM charges free grazers... and people here extol the Bundy clan as heroes.

They are not, they are bums stealing from us all.

originally posted by: wasaka
What a joke. This criminal government just wanted to make
headlines. That is all that was... total BS.

How dare the government engage in that type of action... The Bundy's were clearly there first.

Besides how can you refer to a government that, according to the Bundy's, doesn't exist. An oversight or?

This is what people were not seeing when the the wildlife refuge was occupied by the offshoot of the militia. When people said they were crazy, that they should be shot, etc...had these militants had people's support, had people stood together and said the over reaching arm of BLM, the Federal government and our government as a whole needed to be put back in it place, we would be heading in a much different direction.
If you just stop for a moment, read/watch mainstream news. Look at the many ways they want to take the people's power away from them. Their weapons, their rights their voice, they want us to be afraid, they want us to stay in line. Even the people they sided against they occupying of the wildlife center, do you feel free? They are turning us into slaves. SO many people have rights in this country over that of the people. Cops, TSA, security guards, you name it. The sheep's word over someone of "authority "??? You can't win.
What you're seeing is Orwell's vision of the future coming to fruition. If you don't see that, take the red pill...

originally posted by: Hr2burn
This is what people were not seeing when the the wildlife refuge was occupied by the offshoot of the militia. When people said they were crazy, that they should be shot, etc...had these militants had people's support, had people stood together and said the over reaching arm of BLM, the Federal government and our government as a whole needed to be put back in it place, we would be heading in a much different direction.
If you just stop for a moment, read/watch mainstream news. Look at the many ways they want to take the people's power away from them. Their weapons, their rights their voice, they want us to be afraid, they want us to stay in line. Even the people they sided against they occupying of the wildlife center, do you feel free? They are turning us into slaves. SO many people have rights in this country over that of the people. Cops, TSA, security guards, you name it. The sheep's word over someone of "authority "??? You can't win.
What you're seeing is Orwell's vision of the future coming to fruition. If you don't see that, take the red pill...

Did you not read anything in this post? They want to use PUBLIC land for free. If you or I showed up where they were letting their cattle loose to graze they would likely run us off the land and threaten us. This isn't about Orwell, this is about some privileged freeloaders wanting to profit off land without paying for that use.

I will say again, as I have exhaustively, I do not support the federal government owning extensive tracts of land in the west. I still, in spite of that, do not believe that a few people should be able to exploit that land for their own benefit. Even if it goes back to state control there should not be some group making money off public land without paying a fair rate into the coffer.

originally posted by: Pyle
Well they will get their day in court to prove they did nothing wrong. Arrest does not equal guilty.

Their day in court is supposed to be about the government proving they did something wrong, not vice versa.

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: Pyle
Well they will get their day in court to prove they did nothing wrong. Arrest does not equal guilty.

In this country the defendant doesn't have to prove anything. The Feds have the burden of proof.

You keep believing that mister. I happen to know first-hand it doesn't happen that way. I'm thinking a lot of people have the displeasure of knowing first-hand.

a reply to: Ksihkehe
I'm very familiar with everything that has gone on, perhaps you need to brush up...

www.theamericanconservative.com...

This has everything to do with my point.

a reply to: JohnFisher

He is correct.. Its further reinforced by the Bundy's / others refusing to use the legal system to go after the government for the "perceived wrongs" committed by the government towards the Bundy's.

If the Bundy's used the legal system it would confirm the fact they dont know what they are talking about and have no standing in court. Its much easier to lie to the public in the manner the Bundy's are doing while misleading the people on the facts.

The Bundy's belong in jail, and it looks like that day is now coming for them.

a reply to: Ksihkehe

They want to use PUBLIC land for free. If you or I showed up where they were letting their cattle loose to graze they would likely run us off the land and threaten us.

What do you think the public land is for ?....this land is in the middle of no where and has been used by these ranchers for decades, the federal governments has really no business there and nor does anyone else but the ranchers...what do you care what the land is used for ?

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

I don't need to read up. If they want to use land for free they should buy some. If they want to use public land to line their pocket they should shut up and pay for the use of that land. You think they'll willingly let you or I show up and use the land with them? Not likely. If they want to own land they can buy it like everybody else. Otherwise they need to pay for use.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

Yet encouraging lawlessness and rioting elsewhere.

a reply to: wasaka

I am sorry you are going through this, truly. Do not have time to surf this thread but want to let you know your Op was eye opening.

a reply to: Ksihkehe

The federal government grazing fee is like $1.35 per adult cattle or 2 calves.

His refusal to pay grazing fees started in 1993 using the failed argument the Federal government cannot own property; a myth that is shot down by the property clause of the constitution and case law requiring state governments to approve the federal purchase of property inside states *which was done in all cases).

I dont understand why people are supporting the Bundy's with the only exception being they will jump on any bandwagon that sides against the government simply because its not the government.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: JohnFisher

He is correct.. Its further reinforced by the Bundy's / others refusing to use the legal system to go after the government for the "perceived wrongs" committed by the government towards the Bundy's.

If the Bundy's used the legal system it would confirm the fact they dont know what they are talking about and have no standing in court. Its much easier to lie to the public in the manner the Bundy's are doing while misleading the people on the facts.

The Bundy's belong in jail, and it looks like that day is now coming for them.

Your entitled to your opinion. I don't have much of one pertaining to this whole debacle other than previously stated, and that was simply a response to the question of what constitutional violations the government may or may not be involved with in this specific scenario. And that was offering an idea as to the ranchers' possible perception, not necessarily anything factual. Perception is key in understanding and communicating. I believe that they believe they are resisting a tyrannical federal government. I don't disagree that our government violates the constitution on a regular basis because my own experiences with federally funded state-run level institutions prove exactly that (to me). Not a single person alive can change my mind about it, but then again I'm not important enough for my experiences to matter... But... That doesn't mean the ranchers are correct, and it doesn't mean the federal government is violating the constitution in this particular scenario.

I'm reserved in forming an opinion on the subject beyond trying understand everyone's perspective.

Good. The whole family of seditious traitors, and all of their yeehadist supporters, should be in jail.
Also, 'dragnet' is one word.

a reply to: JohnFisher

Yeah its not an opinion - its fact.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: JohnFisher

Yeah its not an opinion - its fact.

That's Your opinion.