New Evidence Shows Foul Play, Cover-up by FBI and OSP in Shooting of Lavoy Finicum

The issue here for me is that average people honestly believe justice was served in this situation, because LaVoy was breaking the law, and a "nutter"

That's horrifying. Do away with due process, the courts, etc. because it's just easier this way. Guy was crazy, now dead, case closed, back to bed.

I grew up watching police stand offs on television. A man with a high powered rifle could go crazy out in the street, sitting in a chair rambling, and the police would act accordingly and do everything they could to end the situation peacefully, sometimes lasing hours.

You'd never see that now, and people don't really care. It's disturbing. More and more people are actually advocating just killing people who step out of line. If this happened in any other civilized country, I'd be willing to bet actual cash that LaVoy would not be dead.

originally posted by: Psychonautics
If this happened in any other civilized country, I'd be willing to bet actual cash that LaVoy would not be dead.

In civilised countries people like Finicum would not have guns, especially not a pistol!

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: Psychonautics
If this happened in any other civilized country, I'd be willing to bet actual cash that LaVoy would not be dead.

In civilised countries people like Finicum would not have guns, especially not a pistol!

Way to ignore the meat of my post and comment on the least important observation.

a reply to: hellobruce

The right to bare arms exists to prevent invasions,oppressive dictators,prevent violent crime(rapists,robbery,murderers,armed violent gangs), and coups d'états.

It was not put there because we just like to be tough and are afraid of people.

originally posted by: Psychonautics
The issue here for me is that average people honestly believe justice was served in this situation, because LaVoy was breaking the law, and a "nutter"

Its a cult mentality with government as a religion. If you support someone when they are obviously wrong like in this situation, it can only because you are indoctrinated into a cult. The "normal" people actually think the trigger-happy gun fanatics we call the US local police forces are out there helping society. Meanwhile the people who are level-headed and calm, slow to use violence, but good at handling a firearm, who join the militia, are considered the nutters. What a twisted world! The people responsible with guns need more of them, and the people less responsible in government who kill by the thousands need less guns. People are worried about robots taking over the world with AI. Well, evil humans have already taken over the world.

The cops were the first to point guns. Again. The cops were the first to shoot someone. Again. Par for the course. Standard procedure. Use violence liberally so you don't have to risk your life at all in what is supposed to be a risky job.

The worst happened. Now what?

originally posted by: centarix

originally posted by: Psychonautics
The issue here for me is that average people honestly believe justice was served in this situation, because LaVoy was breaking the law, and a "nutter"

Its a cult mentality with government as a religion. If you support someone when they are obviously wrong like in this situation, it can only because you are indoctrinated into a cult. The "normal" people actually think the trigger-happy gun fanatics we call the US local police forces are out there helping society. Meanwhile the people who are level-headed and calm, slow to use violence, but good at handling a firearm, who join the militia, are considered the nutters. What a twisted world! The people responsible with guns need more of them, and the people less responsible in government who kill by the thousands need less guns. People are worried about robots taking over the world with AI. Well, evil humans have already taken over the world.

The cops were the first and only to point guns. Again. The cops were the first to shoot someone. Again. Par for the course. Standard procedure. Use violence liberally so you don't have to risk your life at all in what is supposed to be a risky job.

The worst happened. Now what?

They feared feared for their lives!!!!

So, no more trolls claiming Finicum "got what he deserved"?

Exactly my question . Why do you think they lied about it ? If it was all justified and official , why lie unless you had a more sinister agenda ..

a reply to: Foxtrot7x

A friend suggested to me it could be to cover up for the FBI agent's not only itchy trigger finger but also the fact he missed...twice. Also, upon further research, the FBI is not required to report shots in a firefight unless they hit a target. They are exempt if the shooting is deemed justified. The issue here though was that they were specifically asked by the OSP if they fired and they denied that they had. Two agents were involved in the actual lie.

The last thing the FBI needed was the publicity that a man was killed and their team fired at him. The OSP was doing their job just fine.

I personally believe a trained sniper doesn't miss twice and it is absolutely only my personal opinion that the opening shots were fired to spark a fight or flight response from either Lavoy or the OSP, or both.

I do admit though that the first option is also believable.

originally posted by: raymundoko
I personally believe a trained sniper doesn't miss twice

What makes you claim a sniper fired?

For anyone interested, I highly recommend reading the investigative report posted last week at The Oregonian. It's time consuming but can be done in phases as time allows.

Document Cloud

I'm almost done reading it. There's much to be gleaned, in my perspective, in aiding a more complete understanding of what happened the day of Jan. 26th, 2016 on Rt. 395 and why the whole operation was set up the way it was. I've been cross-referencing all reports to further my own perspective -- Victoria Sharp's, Shawna Cox's, the FBI video, Peter Offermann's in-depth, many paged, video analysis at his website, the Doomsday Diner (showing there was editing of the video just as LaVoy exited the truck), Shawna's phone video, and now, what's been released in the post-shooting investigative report by OSP, including photos and diagrams.

The Oregon SP officer (designated Officer #3 in the report) who came out of the woods pointing a taser at LaVoy (he had run up there, according to the report, upon seeing LaVoy hit the snow bank with his truck, not ramming the road block as everyone at the road block thought he was going to), and I still believe this officer was trying to give LaVoy an out by attempting to take him down without a bullet, asked to take pictures of LaVoy's truck after it was impounded because he wanted to see all actual bullet holes in the truck. He was given permission and was observed while doing so to make sure that's all he did. That's standard procedure for such a request.

What's really, really interesting to me is that one of the other OSP officers involved, during his interview, I forget the number he was given, stated that Officer #3 was holding his side at some point after LaVoy was hit and downed by the other OSP officers' bullets. I forget if this was before or after the truck was cleared. The officer being interviewed stated he had run up to ask Officer #3 if he was OK and the officer said he was fine but he continued to hold his side after that.

It seems apparent that one of the bullets may have hit or grazed him. An FBI bullet? Officer #3's interview is not included in this 360 page investigation report but perhaps it may be released at some point.

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: Foxtrot7x

A friend suggested to me it could be to cover up for the FBI agent's not only itchy trigger finger but also the fact he missed...twice. Also, upon further research, the FBI is not required to report shots in a firefight unless they hit a target. They are exempt if the shooting is deemed justified. The issue here though was that they were specifically asked by the OSP if they fired and they denied that they had. Two agents were involved in the actual lie.

The last thing the FBI needed was the publicity that a man was killed and their team fired at him. The OSP was doing their job just fine.

I personally believe a trained sniper doesn't miss twice and it is absolutely only my personal opinion that the opening shots were fired to spark a fight or flight response from either Lavoy or the OSP, or both.

I do admit though that the first option is also believable.

This FBI Hostage Rescue Team was described as elite and as the cream of the crop who go all over the world, according to "The Oregonian." They didn't give out their real names when working with the OSP. I don't recall if it was you or someone else who suggested in one thread or another maybe their shots fired after the truck stopped in the snow bank were used as instigating shots (as we see in Shawna's phone video) but I replied it was a plausible theory. I still think it's a possibility.

The OSP accounted for all of their lethal bullets shot. The ones fired at the oncoming truck because it was thought LaVoy was going to ram the road block and the three fired at LaVoy by two OSP officers which hit him in the back and dropped him. They were afraid LaVoy was going to pull a weapon and shoot Officer #3 (the officer with the taser). Officer #3 also had a revolver but he was close to LaVoy and not adequately covered according to procedure.

I believe, and I've stated before, this FBI HRT must operate under different rules and regulations and we don't know what their exact private orders were. This was an FBI operation, approved at the highest federal level, with assistance provided by OSP.

P.S. For the sake of not leaving any wrong impressions or assumptions, what I forgot to mention is it was an FBI officer who was knocked over by the snow spray from LaVoy's truck. At least some of those at the scene initially thought the officer was injured or killed and was under LaVoy's truck. That could be why the other FBI officer shot at LaVoy after he exited the vehicle.

a reply to: tweetie

Here is the report by Officer #3 (the one who was closest to Finicum, with a taser), for those interested in reading an OSP viewpoint. He was angry with himself for switching from his pistol to the taser. OPB article detailing the officer and his regret, here.
The full 170 page report is found here
page 122page123page 124
(click images for larger version)

a reply to: Olivine

According to the report, Trooper #3 had the most engagement with LaVoy and the closest view of what he was doing. It wasn't obvious in the FBI video until after Trooper #3 is seen coming out of the woods.

a reply to: Olivine

I find it interesting that same officer (outlined on pg 64) wanted to take photos of the vehicles bullet holes after it was towed to compare it to photos they took right after the shooting...

Those photos were confiscated and logged into evidence.

a reply to: tweetie

I had read previously he almost struck an OSP officer. If it was indeed an FBI agent I originally said it looked like the person jumped in front of the truck intentionally...

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: tweetie

I had read previously he almost struck an OSP officer. If it was indeed an FBI agent I originally said it looked like the person jumped in front of the truck intentionally...

I, too, thought I'd previously read it was an OSP officer but I'm not sure who or where that ID came from.

Page 24 of the Cloud document of Trooper #2's testimony is only one of the places in the investigation report where it's stated it was an FBI agent who was injured by the snow spray from LaVoy's truck as he was knocked over trying to dive out of the way. They all thought, at the time, LaVoy was going to ram into the road block.

Cloud Document

a reply to: tweetie

Watch 5:25-5:27 of the synced video on a loop.

It is already clear the truck is going into the snowbank and THEN the agent jumps in front of the vehicle...

In the first thread about the FBI video I immediately said it looked intentional. Now that it has been confirmed it was an FBI agent I like my theory more and more that the FBI intended to create an armed conflict.

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: tweetie

Watch 5:25-5:27 of the synced video on a loop.

It is already clear the truck is going into the snowbank and THEN the agent jumps in front of the vehicle...

In the first thread about the FBI video I immediately said it looked intentional. Now that it has been confirmed it was an FBI agent I like my theory more and more that the FBI intended to create an armed conflict.

It's a weird little scene looking at it from above and I studied it over and over after the FBI video came out. It also looked to me as if the FBI agent intentionally dove towards the truck but my thought was to make sure LaVoy went deep into the bank. I commented on it, too, in one of the many threads. The police and some members here were making it sound like LaVoy intentionally tried to kill the man and I don't think that's true either.

After reading the OSP troopers' testimonies and what they saw from the ground, I'm going to leave, for myself, the door open on a judgment call for that part of the scenario.

a reply to: Informer1958

The OP subject matter is becoming more of an issue with some folks.

"The Washngton Post," states thus:

"Credibility of Elite Hostage Rescue Team is on the Line"

According to that article, the Hostage Rescue Team is still working but not allowed to use their weapons while this investigation continues. I find that to be so bizarre because these elite ops teams, no matter what branch, tend to operate outside of the usual laws and rules since the nature of what they do is often secret, and I would think they are usually protected from investigation. I don't know, that's just the way I see them from all that I've read about them.

Deschutes County Sheriff Shane Nelson is overseeing the investigation into the shooting of LaVoy Finicum and here's a bit about him. He has a lot of experience and it seems he is well-liked:

Link

I'm interested in this man. He's a Sheriff. There's been a lot of controversy in this country, all over, about the role of sheriffs according to our Constitution. I'll leave it at that for now. I don't know his viewpoint on the subject but some sheriffs have been/are taking more of a role in the "goings on" in their counties.

There's pressure being put on the FBI which I find to be compelling because the FBI ultimately answers to the President. The op to arrest the main leaders of the refuge occupation was approved by the FBI in Washington -- the highest level. We know that Governor Brown pleaded with President Obama to put an end to the occupation of the Malheur Refuge. She was in the pressure cooker.

All of what I typed leads me to believe there's more to this story going on behind the scenes.