Top NASA Official Jailed Under Suspicious Circumstances

a reply to: EvillerBob

I kind of wonder if telling a shrink that you are being framed by Govco, for being a whistleblower, would qualify you for a "mentally incompetent" diagnosis....

originally posted by: Enderdog
a reply to: EvillerBob

I kind of wonder if telling a shrink that you are being framed by Govco, for being a whistleblower, would qualify you for a "mentally incompetent" diagnosis....

Let's look at the law. I've abridged it a little for convenience, feel free to look at the full text.

Florida Statutes on Mental Incompetence

916.12 Mental competence to proceed.—
(1) A defendant is incompetent to proceed within the meaning of this chapter if the defendant does not have sufficient present ability to consult with her or his lawyer with a reasonable degree of rational understanding or if the defendant has no rational, as well as factual, understanding of the proceedings against her or him.

That's our starting point. A broad interpretation at first, it's essentially considering whether the defendant is able to understand what is happening to him. How that is assessed gets discussed a little later. First, let's look at who makes the determination:

(2) Mental health experts appointed pursuant to s. 916.115 shall first determine whether the defendant has a mental illness and, if so, consider the factors related to the issue of whether the defendant meets the criteria for competence to proceed as described in subsection (1). A defendant must be evaluated by no fewer than two experts before the court commits the defendant or takes other action authorized by this chapter or the Florida Rules of Criminal Procedure...

So here we have the "second opinion" that the court was waiting for. It's not because "the Man" is trying to keep him down, it's because the law requires a second opinion. Still, you can't have a conspiracy without at least two people to conspire...

Here we have the issues that the medical professionals need to consider:

(3) In considering the issue of competence to proceed, an examining expert shall first consider and specifically include in his or her report the defendant’s capacity to:
(a) Appreciate the charges or allegations against the defendant.
(b) Appreciate the range and nature of possible penalties, if applicable, that may be imposed in the proceedings against the defendant.
(c) Understand the adversarial nature of the legal process.
(d) Disclose to counsel facts pertinent to the proceedings at issue.
(e) Manifest appropriate courtroom behavior.
(f) Testify relevantly.
In addition, an examining expert shall consider and include in his or her report any other factor deemed relevant by the expert.

Consistent with my own jurisdiction, the test isn't about what he believes, but rather whether the person understands enough about the situation to be able to make a decision.

If he isn't competent, can they make him competent?

(4) If an expert finds that the defendant is incompetent to proceed, the expert shall report on any recommended treatment for the defendant to attain competence to proceed. In considering the issues relating to treatment, the examining expert shall specifically report on:
(a) The mental illness causing the incompetence;
(b) The treatment or treatments appropriate for the mental illness of the defendant and an explanation of each of the possible treatment alternatives in order of choices;
(c) The availability of acceptable treatment and, if treatment is available in the community, the expert shall so state in the report; and
(d) The likelihood of the defendant’s attaining competence under the treatment recommended, an assessment of the probable duration of the treatment required to restore competence, and the probability that the defendant will attain competence to proceed in the foreseeable future.
(5) A defendant who, because of psychotropic medication, is able to understand the nature of proceedings and assist in the defendant’s own defense shall not automatically be deemed incompetent to proceed simply because the defendant’s satisfactory mental functioning is dependent upon such medication....

If the doctors think they can make him competent through treatment, that is something they can offer to the court. If he is only competent because of the medication, he's still considered competent.

So, Lawson could think that aliens from the planet Zog are invading his brain, he can still potentially be competent to proceed, either because (i) his beliefs don't prevent him being able to understand what is happening and making a decision, and/or (ii) he's being pumped full of medication to bring him to a point where he understands enough to make a decision.

"If he isn't competent, can they make him competent? "

I appreciate the analysis but logically they would not escort out a person who has lost his marbles because nobody would take that person seriously. So there would not be any need for this. Nor can there be any worries he would do anything physical, since he was so old. Therefore, he was sane prior to the arrest. They are using this insane argument to sell what they did to him and can actually do whatever that want with anyone, since they are above the law.

What they did to Lawson to make him incapacitated we here don't know, but it must have been pretty heavy for all these shills to come out here and protect us from learning it whist refusing to go onto pacer for free.

a reply to: confusedbutnotidiot

I appreciate the analysis but logically they would not escort out a person who has lost his marbles because nobody would take that person seriously.

Correct, they would just leave a trail of peanuts for him to follow out to the van.

a reply to: confusedbutnotidiot

. Nor can there be any worries he would do anything physical, since he was so old.

Really, because kid touching and kid porn have no age limits.

His age doesn't change the fact he did what he did, and what would stop him from doing it again if he is free?

What's to stop him from going further than he did if he is free?

Anyone watching and downloading kid porn imo needs to be examined psychologically, because anyone looking at kids in the way he did is mentally ill and deserve what they get from the judicial system...especially when they admit to it.

Therefore, he was sane prior to the arrest.

And that is unknown as many mental illnesses can be different and not known until later in life. This man didn't just become interested in boys when he got older...he has always had the feeling it may not have manifested itself to what he has now until he got older.

What they did to Lawson to make him incapacitated we here don't know,

WHy do you think they incapacitated him in some way?

Do you understand what this man is in for not only in prison but what he has to deal with if he gets parole before he dies?

Sexual offenders are the dregs of society to some and the law has no sympathy for them either. They have to follow strict rules that are worse than prison for some.

but it must have been pretty heavy for all these shills to come out here and protect us from learning it whist refusing to go onto pacer for free.

Ah yes the old shill card...really?

Why haven't you gone to pacer instead of expecting other to do so?

a reply to: DJW001

Correct, they would just leave a trail of peanuts for him to follow out to the van.

More like candy...

originally posted by: confusedbutnotidiot
"If he isn't competent, can they make him competent? "

I appreciate the analysis but logically they would not escort out a person who has lost his marbles because nobody would take that person seriously. So there would not be any need for this. Nor can there be any worries he would do anything physical, since he was so old. Therefore, he was sane prior to the arrest. They are using this insane argument to sell what they did to him and can actually do whatever that want with anyone, since they are above the law.

He might well have been sane before the arrest. He might be perfectly sane now, but playing the mental health card to get a placement on a psychiatric ward instead of being dropped into the regular prison. 70 year old white guy convicted of kiddie porn? That should go down well with the other inmates.

Not entirely sure how this links to any logical argument that he wouldn't be escorted out? The reason for security escorts is usually related to ensuring the fired person leaves without stopping by the office, urinating in the company coffee pot, screaming obscenities at the guy three offices down the hall that he's always hated, and "accidentally" deleting everything on company servers.

And as for the "old guys being unable to do anything physical", I'd invite you to offer that opinion in the "78 year old man sucker-punches young black guy at Trump rally" thread.

The only thing the insanity argument is doing is to potentially offer him a slot on a psychiatric ward rather than a normal prison cell. How does it let "them" do whatever they want to anyone? That keeps coming up in the thread but is never actually explained.

originally posted by: confusedbutnotidiot
...but it must have been pretty heavy for all these shills to come out here and protect us from learning it whist refusing to go onto pacer for free.

What?

Why should I provide my personal contact details or credit card information to a government portal of a foreign court system? Why aren't you doing it if it's so important? You don't need a credit card, that's only for immediate access.

a reply to: Navarro

Thank you for posting
A pedophile deserves no respect. But we don’t know for sure if he is one. And all in all even if he made a disclosure it wouldn’t change anything …

Douglas Mac Arthur and George Marshall: members of the Interplanetary Phenomena Research unit? Maybe, because no one knows for sure. But for sure those guys said very special things.

Roscoe Hillenkoetter: Member of The National Investigations Committee On Aerial Phenomena was formed in 1956, with the organization's corporate charter being approved October 24. Hillenkoetter was on NICAP's board of governors from about 1957 until 1962. Donald E. Keyhoe, NICAP director and Hillenkoetter's Naval Academy classmate, wrote that Hillenkoetter wanted public disclosure of UFO evidence. Perhaps Hillenkoetter's best-known statement on the subject was in 1960 in a letter to Congress, as reported in The New York Times: "Behind the scenes, high-ranking Air Force officers are soberly concerned about UFOs. But through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe the unknown flying objects are nonsense."

Philip corso: ‘There is a big cover up.’

Herman Oberth: ‘We were helped by alien technology.’

Von Braun: Said the same. Carol Rosin, his secretary, says a lot more.

Riedel: Just like von Braun and Oberth.

Armstrong: His speech in 1994 should open our eyes …

Mitchell: No comment but our hero.

Irwin: came back from the moon and searched for the Ark of Noah for the rest of his life. Was going to make a disclosure but apparently had been convinced not to do so.

Most men who putted foot on the moon came back as if they had seen God. Some became almost crazy.

Maurice Chatelain: Believed in aliens. More than anyone else -except Hoagland- was made ridiculous.

Ronald Reagan and more presidents (strange): believed in aliens. Reagan was made a bit ridiculous too. (A low IQ, a henpecked husband …)

Michael Douglas Griffin: 'The biggest mistake is that we don’t have a moonbase for at least 20 years.' Got fired.

Richard Hoagland: Even to me a little too much imagination. But why NASA doesn’t solve the controversy about tower and shard?

There is so much more, like the censored photographs etcetera …

A lot of indications still are no proof. At least if it concerns the moon. For some other thing those indications -I believe-would be seen as proof. A man with the same curriculum as Mitchell would have been be a great witness in court in any other case except concerning alien life. Strange.

And for those who think our real leaders cannot hide the truth for us. Please think again.

For sure most men made their statements at the end of their lives (or at least when they thought the end was near). Even Plato (his cave story, Atlantis ... and Da Vinci (Mona Lisa (Isis?), Edward Bulwer-Lytton (Coming Race) ...

www.evawaseerst.be... (red dots are in Englisch)

a reply to: zandra

Douglas Mac Arthur and George Marshall: members of the Interplanetary Phenomena Research unit? Maybe, because no one knows for sure. But for sure those guys said very special things.

Neither was accused of pederasty. Never heard of the "Interplanetary Phenomena Research Unit." MacArthur was too busy saving the world from Communism to get involved with flying saucers.

Roscoe Hillenkoetter

Never accused of pedophilia and locked up.

Philip corso

Never accused of pedophilia and locked up.

Herman Oberth: ‘We were helped by alien technology.’

He meant "foreign technology," the work of American pioneer Robert Goddard. Needless to say, neither was ever accvused of pedophilia and locked up.

Von Braun: Said the same. Carol Rosin, his secretary, says a lot more.

Von Braun also admitted that he drew on the work of Goddard. Carol Rosin, on the other hand, is no pedophile but she is certainly insane.

Riedel

Another non-pedophile.

Armstrong: His speech in 1994 should open our eyes …

Only if you understand the metaphor. Another non-pedophile.

Mitchell: No comment but our hero.

Never accused of pedophilia and locked up.

Irwin: came back from the moon and searched for the Ark of Noah for the rest of his life.

Never accused of pedophilia and locked up.

Most men who putted foot on the moon came back as if they had seen God. Some became almost crazy.

Travelling to another planet is an intense experience. None of them ever claimed to have seen aliens. None of them were ever accused of pedophilia and locked up.

Maurice Chatelain: Believed in aliens. More than anyone else -except Hoagland- was made ridiculous.

Maurice Chatelain just made stuff up. Even so, he was never accused of pedophilia and locked up.

Ronald Reagan and more presidents (strange): believed in aliens.

Perhaps, but no President thus far has ever been accused of pedophilia and locked up. Not even Obama.

Michael Douglas Griffin: 'The biggest mistake is that we don’t have a moonbase for at least 20 years.' Got fired.

This is the furthest off topic you have gotten in an off topic post. His routine resignation was accepted by the incoming administration for political reasons.

Richard Hoagland: Even to me a little too much imagination. But why NASA doesn’t solve the controversy about tower and shard?

What controversy? NASA has real science to do. Even that fantasist Hoagland has never been accused of pedophilia and locked up.

There is so much more, like the censored photographs etcetera …

What censored photographs? Never mind, whatever you think they are, they have never resulted in anyone being accused of pedophilia and locked up.

A lot of indications still are no proof. At least if it concerns the moon. For some other thing those indications -I believe-would be seen as proof. A man with the same curriculum as Mitchell would have been be a great witness in court in any other case except concerning alien life. Strange.

Have you noticed yet that this thread is not in the "Aliens and UFOs" forum?

a reply to: DJW001

Of course they were no pedophiles or whatever ... most of them were great men.
It's all a misunderstanding. I only wanted to say that even the greatest men would not be believed if they should say for example: NASA has hidden extra terrestrial technology.
Apparently I didn"t make myself clear. Too little time to write it all in detail. Apparently I"m on the wrong forum. But I' m sure you will defend my right to speak even in a non ufo forum No Offense. sorry, let's forget it.

a reply to: zandra

Your meaning was perfectly clear to me.

I thought it was a point well made.

a reply to: EvillerBob

Excellent points, EvillerBob!

What happened to this thread? I thought it had potential, but it seems some of our more pragmatic, level-headed posters (namely: EvillerBob) burst the OP's bubble and the "top NASA official" really was a pediophile, and not some gatekeeper of NASA's "disclosure" secrets.

Good job, EvillerBob. You single-handily broke down the logical fallacies and pointed us (unsure but interested 'conspiracy theorists') in the direction of the unfettered, unadulterated truth - at least as best as you possibly could given the sparse facts - regarding Lawson's position, committed crimes, and possible whereabouts.

Thanks again, EvillerBob!!👍

There needs to be a clarification here:

Communications Security (COMSEC) Adminstrator.

I was one myself... it has nothing to do with the controlling the flow of information other than making sure that information is properly encrypted prior to transmission. Classified Information issues are handled by the Chief Security Officer (CSO). The COMSEC Manager works very closely with the CSO and is usually (not always) a member of the security division itself.

COMSEC managers are responsible for Controlled Cryptographic Items (CCI) and conducting Cryptographic Access Briefings and De-Briefings (CAB). CAB's are required every 5 years.

CCI are things like encryption devices, secure telephones, radios, aircraft IFF transponders, etc... Major manufacturers of CCI are General Dynamics (they make all the encryption devices used by the government... very lucrative business and big big bucks) Harris Communications, Thales, etc.

Before a person can be issued a CCI, they have to receive a CAB that informs them of their responsibilities in the safe guarding of the items entrusted to their care. It also informs them of what could happen to them should they lose it.

CCI are tracked via a SF 153. All CCI are tracked from birth to destruction via 153's as mandated by NSA.

Loss of CCI is treated entirely on case by case basis.... very rarely does it result in any action other than a revocation of a security clearance.

There is an old saying in the COMSEC world.... if nobody at your job likes you, then you are doing your job correctly.


So whatever issues this man was dealing with, it is unlikely his dismissal was the result of anything to do with COMSEC issues unless he was caught falsifying destruction records, forging a second witness signature or something along those lines... either way... no conspiracy to do with that particular position he held. His position didn't give him any access to classified information other than what he already had a need to know.

I have no problem believing the child porn charges on a government computer....happens way more often than people are aware of.

a reply to: bandersnatch
I think any data like that can be traced but we, the public, will never know. Could be made up, or, he could just be another dirty old man. Seems child potn does run at the highest levels of governments (all, not just the US). Again, the truth, will never be known.

a reply to: Navarro

I am not sure if there is a huge conspiracy involved with this specifically. It appears as though he was a pedophile and got stuck in an FBI investigation of some sort.

Just a random thing that comes to mind. There was a very prolific and world-renowned film director in Quebec, I can't remember his name right now, but he has many streets and things named after him over there because his movies were so beloved. It came out recently in a biography that he liked teenage boys, and now people are moving towards having these named streets removed and his name totally denigrated.

I think the conspiracy in the world is severe homophobia and "extreme prejudices" LOL

Too bad his last name isn't Clinton.

Aren't the space UFO encounter secrets all supposed to be at the Johnson Space Center in houston?

The motto at KSC in Florida was always, 'Once it's over the horizon we don't care where it goes."

BTW, I always thought the best joke meaning for N-A-S-A was

Nincompoops
Always
See
Aliens

Happening again here?

originally posted by: zandra....
Herman Oberth: ‘We were helped by alien technology.’

Von Braun: Said the same. Carol Rosin, his secretary, says a lot more.

Oberth was a sweet old man who grew increasingly clueless in his 70's. Von Braun never said that, he thought UFOs were a joking matter.

Armstrong: His speech in 1994 should open our eyes …

The UFO stories around Armstrong started in a 'National Enquirer' clone.

Mitchell: No comment but our hero.

Did comment -- Never saw UFOs, never heard of any astronaut buddies encountering UFOs on NASA missions, not one.

Irwin: came back from the moon and searched for the Ark of Noah for the rest of his life. Was going to make a disclosure but apparently had been convinced not to do so.

...according to ace UFO confabulator Clark McClelland ['nuff said]

Maurice Chatelain: Believed in aliens. More than anyone else -except Hoagland- was made ridiculous.

Fired from North American years before moon landing, lifted his space UFO stories from the 'National Enquirer', if that's not ridiculous, time to retire the word from our dictionaries.

a reply to: Navarro

Whatever happened to this thread?