Please ATS Members and Non-Members alike, STOP Blocking Ads- Or there may be NO ATS at ALL

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord
One such item is search engine bots. On some days, more than half our overall total traffic can be non-human indexing agents, and it's never less than 30%. Looking at the live log right now, of the last 100 lines of access (which represents less than the last 5 seconds of activity), 70 are indexing agents. Each of those lines of the log from indexing agents is accessing a different thread page... that alone is 70 different queries against a database of 1+ million threads and 20+ million posts in less than 5 seconds.

So, uh, 'non-people' are potentially responsible for ATS becoming ppv?


I don't even pretend to understand the ins and outs of website management and maintenance, and I'm just a small fish so I doubt I'll be missed, but I'm not paying anything towards an increasingly conservative, pro-Trump, shoutie shoutie bully me down site. Sure, "make some content you'd like to see" you'll say, but then the same old bullies and haters would increasingly derail...nah, the gloss has disappeared for me. I'm no longer the target audience...

a reply to: aorAki

It's not turning the site to PPV, it's the ability to bypass the T&C's of not running an add blocker, when you don't have the needed stats to not see ads, by paying a fee.

a reply to: Discotech

i know its the star bug

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord

originally posted by: Rabb420
that was pretty harsh equating ad block users with criminal thiefs....

Not really. Some additional clarity...

Back in 2002, an enterprising person was buying stacks of NYC newspapers, ripping out most of the ads and inserts, then reselling the "slimmed down" versions to people entering the subway. He was charging 50 cents more than the cover price.

He was arrested, and spent time in jail for criminal copyright violation.


There is caselaw in the US and Europe that specifies the HTML structure of a web page is a copyright protected asset of the publisher and/or creator.

In France, Germany and the UK, class action lawsuits are being started against the ad-blocking companies for criminal copyright violation. The case is relatively strong, the ad-blocking firms are profiting from modifying a copyright protected item without permission from the copyright holder.

There's rumors of similar class action suits in the US, but the IAB is trying to negotiate an alternative first.


The extortion of the ad-blocking firms have also recently caught the attention of district attorneys in the US. In NY, an investigation is supposed to be in progress.


There is strong evidence that much of what the ad-blockers do is in violation of more than one law.



It's not that harsh then, is it?

Not harsh?

Oh please, before you justify calling me a criminal, make the site inaccessible while using ad-blockers instead of informing me that certain features will be unavailable.

You cannot on one hand say "alright, you can use ad-blockers but at the price of features" (you cannot deny that that IS the message you send!) and on the other hand call your users criminals.

I do not much appreciate being called a criminal. Especially since I do support a subscription model and since I do defend your right to make money off the site. In the post I quote you make ZERO distinction between people trying to make money off other's work and and downright extortion (because, yeah, I agree what they are doing is tantamount to extortion) and users trying to minimize exposure to ads.

That really offends me.

I tried turning off my ad-blocker when you introduced the new welcome message the other day - and quickly turn it back on. Right now I "have" to have an ad-blocker activated on sites using Google Adsense because I am about to propose and would like to keep it a secret - but every damned google powered ad is for engagement and wedding rings and it was all over the page. And she is not stupid; she knows how online advertising works, and I'll be damned if ads shall ruin my proposal!

That is of course not your problem - you need to make a living too - but before you implicitly liken your users to copyright thieves and extortionists consider their reason(s) for disabling ads and ask yourself if it really is a fair comparison.

a reply to: TrueAmerican

Thanks for sounding like an absolute jerk while making this post. If ads are so important, there are methods by which you can stop people from using AdBlock, but you can easily operate this site for a hundred or so a year. The issue here isn't the "death of the site" so to speak, it's the fact that the profit well is drying up.

To the rest of the ATS admins, I'd avoid letting this guy do your pitches in the future.

a reply to: DupontDeux

Just to add to your point I don't think NYC newspapers are user generated content either.

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Why can't the ads be removed altogether? Have a site completely ad free thus removing the fortune it supposedly costs the owners to maintain the site. I've said the following in another thread but was ignored, some people have to get a second job to make ends meet!

originally posted by: aorAki
So, uh, 'non-people' are potentially responsible for ATS becoming ppv?

Non-human web activity is the cost of doing business at our scale. But ATS will never be pay-per-view.

originally posted by: DupontDeux
I do not much appreciate being called a criminal.

Okay, I'm sorry. But please understand the frustrations that inspired it.

Right now I "have" to have an ad-blocker activated on sites using Google Adsense because I am about to propose and would like to keep it a secret

Congratulations. However, logged-in members are not currently served with AdSense ads.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

It sounds like a ridiculous case to me, because ad blockers dynamically alter content as the user receives it, content isn't altered and then resold.

One thing you mentioned was the Google project where people would pay into a pool to not see ad's. It seems like a good idea but I'm concerned it would end up in a situation if it gets popular where site owners add extra ad's no one sees just to raise the amount of revenue they bring in.

Look at when I joined..

I never used an ad blocker when I started here.. I started using an ad blocker when I would get annoying ass loud spam Yes spam when I was looking at this site.. I would get full page ads that I couldn't do anything above.. Which lead me to visit less and not post as much.. Notice my posting habits have dropped.. The few mins I spend on here is not hurting you much.. After the annoying ads though.. I will not disable the adblocker I have at all.. For that reason.. Full page ads and noise is not a good thing..

originally posted by: Aazadan
It sounds like a ridiculous case to me, because ad blockers dynamically alter content as the user receives it, content isn't altered and then resold.

It's when the ad blockers started charing publishers to return the page to normal, with ads, that made it a case.

One thing you mentioned was the Google project where people would pay into a pool to not see ad's. It seems like a good idea but I'm concerned it would end up in a situation if it gets popular where site owners add extra ad's no one sees just to raise the amount of revenue they bring in.

Actually, you still see "ads" in a sense. You can upload pictures you'd like to see instead of an ad. The example used kittens.

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord

originally posted by: DupontDeux
I do not much appreciate being called a criminal.

Okay, I'm sorry. But please understand the frustrations that inspired it.

Right now I "have" to have an ad-blocker activated on sites using Google Adsense because I am about to propose and would like to keep it a secret

Congratulations. However, logged-in members are not currently served with AdSense ads.

Thank you :-)

And as stated (or implied) I DO recognize your frustration and need to make ends meet. It was your wording I took issue with.


Adsense or not, the wedding rings are everywhere - and I am at least SOMEWHAT sure it is not just in my head!

originally posted by: TheAmazingYeti
a reply to: kenzohattori69

Skeptic already responded to that post.

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord

originally posted by: stonerwilliam
I have never seen more than 300 or so people logged in ever conspiracy is dead bud

My informative post at the bottom of the previous page may be getting lost. So here it is again, to provide some clarity...


A bit more than a year ago, we engaged a professional IT management firm to review our full stack and recommend the most cost-effective hosting option, as well as optimization strategies for the stack. Most of the code optimizations have been either tested and discarded (trying to cache mysql queries was a disaster) or deployed. And we are running on robust but relatively inexpensive dedicated server. I have a low threshold for logging slow db queries, and check it regularly... there hasn't been any for months, so the code is well-optimized.

When people say, this site could be hosted for X, they typically don't consider some of the unexpected items for sites with more than four million distinct pages. One such item is search engine bots. On some days, more than half our overall total traffic can be non-human indexing agents, and it's never less than 30%. Looking at the live log right now, of the last 100 lines of access (which represents less than the last 5 seconds of activity), 70 are indexing agents. Each of those lines of the log from indexing agents is accessing a different thread page... that alone is 70 different queries against a database of 1+ million threads and 20+ million posts in less than 5 seconds.

Using our stats, we approached AWS, The Planet, and SoftLayer for quotes on a VPS solution. No one came in under $3,000/month. Google App Engine may have been a possible alternative, but looking at the datastore and processing cost estimates, it was going to be well over $2,000 a month. So it was more cost-effective to hire a professional IT firm to customize a high-performance dedicated server specific to our needs.

Actually when mem/database cache, those 70 queries turn into one query, as it does not have to repeat the same queries since they get cached. So one person loads the page, page and database are cached, so the other 69 visits are using the first visitors page load.

If they really hired an IT expert, the IT expert should of explained and done this.

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord

originally posted by: DupontDeux
I do not much appreciate being called a criminal.

Okay, I'm sorry. But please understand the frustrations that inspired it.

Right now I "have" to have an ad-blocker activated on sites using Google Adsense because I am about to propose and would like to keep it a secret

Congratulations. However, logged-in members are not currently served with AdSense ads.

Do you use skype or another form of communication? I'd love to (safely of course) explain a few things that will greatly reduce your overhead and improve over all performance for this website.

Maybe, the site has run its course. Its first five years were probably its best, but now, it is nothing more than a caricature of a cartoon, inhabited by lots of loony tunes.

One thing you mentioned was the Google project where people would pay into a pool to not see ad's. It seems like a good idea but I'm concerned it would end up in a situation if it gets popular where site owners add extra ad's no one sees just to raise the amount of revenue they bring in.

Wait, I am confused - is that a model where Google is paid NOT to show ads? Because, that is one business model you've GOT to respect!

a reply to: DupontDeux

Let me also congratulate you on your pending engagement!

a reply to: DupontDeux

Nobody called you a criminal, you just shot the messenger.

But the good thing is, they won't call you a criminal for frequently surfin this site, you're probably already labled a terrorist. We climb the latter faster on ATS, wanna bet?

That really offends me.

Yeah. Let's blaim the 3 ATS amigos for this debacle and SO in particular for friendly explaining the context and starting a discussion about donations yesterday.

Whooray, bombs away!

a reply to: TrueAmerican

You are right. I have ATS whitelisted in the software I have. Even when not logged in, I don't see many ads. I saw a few more when viewing on my phone and not logged in. But just common embedded ads and a lot less that other sites.

I have this site and cokeandpopcorn whiteliststed. Both sites have more than earned that from me. In fact, I would watch 2 minute ads for both sites if asked.

There are no conspiracy sites as good as this. So, some say if this disappears, another will come. Good luck trying to look at the setup of somewhere like BIN or communicating with the people.

And for anyone thinking this can be done for $25 a month, my 4 page website for housekeeping services costs a little more than half that and I feel lucky that it comes with a little blog.

The amount of information stored here is enormous. I am not an expert, but my housemate has 3T of space on his computer and he tells me it is more than half full.

There will, unfortunately be people that whine about the best ideas.

Excellent post!