Most Intriguing

The most intriguing mention in the Bible, I find is when Jesus utters, just before giving up The Holy Ghost, is ' Eloi Eloi, La ma sabakthani' meaning My God, My God, why has Thou forsaken Me.
Now why did Jesus say that. How would you interpret it.
Praise The Lord

a reply to: Nochzwei
According to the Book of Luke, his last words were something quite different.
What does that tell us, other than 'What can you trust of men's written words'?

a reply to: Nochzwei

I think it's because he was on the cross at the time and knew he was near death, and felt that his Father didn't "save" him from his fate?

Something that many might refer to as the "Dark night of the soul"? That's my thinking - interesting question!

a reply to: butcherguy

Or maybe they are two different accounts of what each man heard, just at different times

It perplexes me that people expect that everyone assumes that everyone else has the same perspective.

Each man told a story from his own point of view, they both could be right

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: Nochzwei
According to the Book of Luke, his last words were something quite different.
What does that tell us, other than 'What can you trust of men's written words'?

I think the Gospel according to Luke says the same thing.

originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: Nochzwei

I think it's because he was on the cross at the time and knew he was near death, and felt that his Father didn't "save" him from his fate?

Something that many might refer to as the "Dark night of the soul"? That's my thinking - interesting question!

I've heard it said that he experienced separation from God as a punishment for the sin he bore. This would have been the first he ever experienced this and was lamenting about the feeling. Imagine logging in to Facebook and finding that you had zero friends. I'm sure you'd utter a "WTF!" or something along those lines.

Forsaken is a pretty clear thing of course but was this just about the physical or not? That's the interesting aspect of this topic.

originally posted by: dbates
I've heard it said that he experienced separation from God as a punishment for the sin he bore.

I think this is the standard theological explanation. That he was bearing "the sin of the world", which was separating him from the Father for the first time in his life. I still remember the impact of that explanation, the first time I read it, on the evening when I became a Christian.

In addition, the words quoted are the opening line of Psalm 22. The suggestion is made that we should read the whole Psalm through to its triumphal conclusion and take that as part of the meaning;
"Posterity shall serve him; men shall tell of the Lord to the coming generation, and proclaim his deliverance to a people yet unborn, that he has wrought it".

a reply to: DISRAELI

1 John 3
5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.

If he took the world's sins upon himself, why does John say that in him is no sin? This was after Jesus supposedly bore the sins of man at his crucifixion.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
John also says that he "takes away the sin of the world" -John ch1 v29, and indeed in the same verse that you quote yourself.
Putting the two statements together, we get the result that he can take it away from us without being contaminated.
The verse you quote says there IS no sin in him. Whatever he experienced on the cross was a temporary effect.

a reply to: DISRAELI

So where did all the sin that he took upon himself go? Did it just disappear? And if people continue to sin to this day, where does their sin go if not to Jesus who died for their sins?

Could the idea he wore the sins of the world to save us be interpreted that jesus took all the sin in the world corrupting him to the point he personified pure evil?
Would jesus be then seen as Satan given that he safraficed himself for us....burning in he'll for eternity rather than us?

Im confused

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: DISRAELI

So where did all the sin that he took upon himself go? Did it just disappear? And if people continue to sin to this day, where does their sin go if not to Jesus who died for their sins?

Yes, the sins are removed, forgiven, pardoned. Also you're thinking of time from your point of view and not God's. All sin, past and future, were covered in this instance.

a reply to: dbates

Not all though, only those who believe in the sacrifice. So Jesus only bore a "part" of the world's sins. Though I understand where you're coming from.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
We ought not to get hung up on the idea of sin being a substance, so that we can debate about "where it is".
In my threads on dealing with sin in the Old Testament, I defined sin as a break-down in the relationship between God and man, the human will falling out of alignment with God's will.
Now what Jesus describes in that call on the cross is precisely that; a break in his relationship with the Father.
The meaning of "sin being taken away" is that the relationship between God and man is restored.

a reply to: DISRAELI

2 Corinthians 5
21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

This is saying that Jesus was made into sin, if he was made into sin and he bore sin within his body (2 Peter 2:24) then how can we be seen as righteous when we are in him (who is sin)? If we are in sin, how is that righteous?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
That is the second time you have tried to find a contradiction between the two halves of one biblical statement.
If John could see no conflict between "he takes away sin" and "there is no sin in him", then why should we?
If Paul could see no conflict between "God made him sin for us" and "that we should become righteousness in him", then why should we?

I have already offered you a simple way of understanding the sequence.
The "taking on sin" or "becoming sin" was a temporary experience, and the effect was then sloughed off;
"The death he died, he died to sin, once for all"-Romans ch6 v10.
He is raised from the dead in a state of righteousness, and so are we.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: butcherguy

Each man told a story from his own point of view, they both could be right

Unless that story dose not agree with yours, then it's wrong.

originally posted by: Nochzwei

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: Nochzwei
According to the Book of Luke, his last words were something quite different.
What does that tell us, other than 'What can you trust of men's written words'?

I think the Gospel according to Luke says the same thing.

Here it is, from Luke:

Luke 23:46New International Version (NIV) 46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.

Source
Not quite the same.
Here is what the Gospel of John lists as his last words:
"It is finished" John 19:29-30
Fairly different from what Mark and Matthew wrote.

originally posted by: Zerodoublehero

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: butcherguy

Each man told a story from his own point of view, they both could be right

Unless that story dose not agree with yours, then it's wrong.

We have four accounts of his last words on the cross. Three of them are fairly different from each other.
One of them may be correct... or none.
I don't know.
But I am not alone.

a reply to: butcherguy
Mark and Matthew don't identify "Eloi, Eloi" as "the last words" (neither did the OP).
They say that he made this cry part-way through the experience, and another "loud cry" at the end.

In John he says "It is finished" and then "gave up his spirit".
The words in Luke are the words he used when he gave up his spirit.
Either could be the "loud cry" mentioned in the other two gospels.