The Birth of God and the Beginning of the New Dawn

a reply to: chadderson
I think he was a deist, as in god set things in motion, but doesn't interfere.

Why is someone who believes the world is a natural occurrence given a title like atheist, even if he isn't following typical atheist thinking. Everyone insists that you have to join a team. What about being an individual who just doesn't follow one specific path. Conformity is making a comeback but this time it aint hip to be square. (American Psycho reference).

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Superstitious? Yep. But I think the greater puzzle is why humans project such self loathing and self destruction in their superstitious memes.

For example: Why do the Abrahamic gods dislike us so? What's up with that?

The Abrahamic faiths developed around the time that patriarchy was
on the rise and was busy exterminating all of the earlier pagan
and indigenous cultures in the world; these earlier pagan cultures
worshiped Mother figures for the most part, or Family figures-

but they definitely were not hate-filled, monstrous, genocidal,
anti-nature pantheons.

Religion is simply a mirror of culture.. so it's not surprising that
the Abrahamic faiths arose from culture the way they did..
it would have been surprising if they hadn't.

Kev

originally posted by: Gnosisisfaith
Why is someone who believes the world is a natural occurrence given a title like atheist

Because a naturally occurring universe is a secular concept. They could believe god exists outside of creating the universe, though, so in that case they wouldn't be an Atheist.

originally posted by: Gnosisisfaith
even if he isn't following typical atheist thinking.

What is "typical atheist thinking"?

originally posted by: Gnosisisfaith
Everyone insists that you have to join a team.

No, it's just that we have words that describe particular positions.

originally posted by: Gnosisisfaith
What about being an individual who just doesn't follow one specific path.

Explain what you mean by this, because we have a word that describes virtually any position on the matter. It's not so black and white either, there are Atheists, Theists, Agnostics, Deists, Pantheists, Agnostic Atheism, Agnostic Theism. so on and so forth.

The spectrum is ever varying.

originally posted by: Gnosisisfaith
Conformity is making a comeback but this time it aint hip to be square.

It has nothing to do with following groups, it's just that we have words to describe positions.

Dawn Old Trumpa reply to: AlienView

a reply to: Ghost147
Those are just my random thoughts, I was just thinking about how most people seem to me to want to find a position to line up behind or they are joining churches, philosophical movements, fraternities, and conforming to something, versus the few who really go against the grain. The people that add to society are usually people who challenge conventional thinking. I have no idea what conventional atheist thinking is, but there has to be some standard belief among atheists or the word wouldn't exist. Do atheists not think the world just came into existence without any intelligent assistance? That would be my best guess. But what Im asking is can you believe that without being an atheist? In your opinion, because I know you can, but is there an atheist doctrine?

a reply to: Ghost147
And I was not thinking about agnostics, theists or deists, because they are not atheists. I just wouldn't like being called an atheist, because it would assume I follow common opinion, which I rarely do. That's if I didn't believe in creation. I just don't know who created who, how, and why. I hope for an afterlife but I don't count on it. Non existence can't hurt.

originally posted by: Gnosisisfaith
a reply to: Ghost147
I have no idea what conventional atheist thinking is, but there has to be some standard belief among atheists or the word wouldn't exist.

This is not an accurate assumption. Atheists have no common beliefs at all. Atheism is simply a lack of belief. There is nothing that connects one atheist to another other than their lack of belief in gods.

Is there a specific thing you're thinking of that you believe connects all atheists?

originally posted by: Gnosisisfaith
a reply to: Ghost147
Do atheists not think the world just came into existence without any intelligent assistance?

No, that is not accurate.

An atheist is free to believe anything and everything so long as it doesn't pertain to any gods. If an Atheist were to believe that an intelligent alien race created the world or the universe, there is nothing in that belief that would separate a person from their atheism.

The creation of planets or universes is not a topic of Atheism, because there are no topics of atheism. There is simply a lack of belief in gods, and a lack of belief doesn't thus create other beliefs. An atheist can simply have no stance on how the universe or the planet came into existence if they wish.

originally posted by: Gnosisisfaith
a reply to: Ghost147
That would be my best guess. But what Im asking is can you believe that without being an atheist? In your opinion, because I know you can, but is there an atheist doctrine?

No, there is no Atheist doctrine. Atheism isn't even really an "ism" at all, because an atheist has no particular set of beliefs, a belief system, or a world view.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear
RE: Abrahamic faiths. I recently heard Abraham and Sarah have a connection to the Hindu Brahma and Sarasvati. The similarities in names AND both having a sister/wife is compelling evidence but you can find out more if you look into it. It's even been suggested he either taught or was Zoroaster. Geographically its plausible. I think Zoroaster/Zarathustra being his disciple makes sense. And the Persians freed the Judean/Benjaminite Jews from Babylonian captivity later, could be they had something in common from the past. And the Persians were influential in monotheising Judaism.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Superstitious? Yep. But I think the greater puzzle is why humans project such self loathing and self destruction in their superstitious memes.

For example: Why do the Abrahamic gods dislike us so? What's up with that?

The Abrahamic faiths developed around the time that patriarchy was
on the rise and was busy exterminating all of the earlier pagan
and indigenous cultures in the world; these earlier pagan cultures
worshiped Mother figures for the most part, or Family figures-

but they definitely were not hate-filled, monstrous, genocidal,
anti-nature pantheons.

Religion is simply a mirror of culture.. so it's not surprising that
the Abrahamic faiths arose from culture the way they did..
it would have been surprising if they hadn't.

Kev

Well, Kev, can you tell me from where the self loathing and self destruction projected onto humanity by the Abrahamic religions' gods come from? Why do their gods insult our efforts and promise to destroy us and our works, again and again?

a reply to: Ghost147

I think it's becoming a religion in its own right. There are atheists united, so they are organizing on some level. Assuming? Atheists don't believe in God, so that means the universe would have to have created itself. You are being rabid in the same way as a Christian would. Feel free to ignore me.

originally posted by: Gnosisisfaith
a reply to: Ghost147

I think it's becoming a religion in its own right.

Here is the definition of religion:

1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. (Atheism has no such set of beliefs)

2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects:
the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion. (Atheism has no such set of fundamental beliefs)

3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices:
a world council of religions. (Atheism has no such set of beliefs, therefore not body of persons adhering to them)

4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.:
to enter religion. (Atheism has no monks, nuns, or any other sort of hierarchy or classification from one atheist to another)

5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith. (Atheism has no such practices or rituals or religious faith)

6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:
to make a religion of fighting prejudice. (Atheism has no such set of beliefs in which Atheists are directed to follow devotely)

Source: Dictionary.com

originally posted by: Gnosisisfaith
a reply to: Ghost147
There are atheists united, so they are organizing on some level.

I have a community soccer team to, they are united in the game of soccer, do you also consider soccer a religion? Organization and partial unification does not mean something is becoming a religion.

originally posted by: Gnosisisfaith
a reply to: Ghost147
Atheists don't believe in God, so that means the universe would have to have created itself.

No, it doesn't. I've already explained that the absence of a god doesn't mean 'nature done it'. Atheists are more than welcome to believe that aliens started the universe, or that the universe is a hologram, or that the universe is actually just a figment of our imagination and we are some displaced mental being floating in a void, or that the universe is the matrix, or that [insert anything else here]

Many people, including Theists, come to the conclusion that the onset of the Universe can be described through The Big Bang Theory because of the evidence it has. However, there is no "book of Atheism" or any unwritten agreement that "all atheists must believe the universe came from nature, and so does everything else".

Your concepts are based off a false premise.

originally posted by: Gnosisisfaith
a reply to: Ghost147
You are being rabid in the same way as a Christian would. Feel free to ignore me.

You're mistaking my responses with aggression and aggravation. The fact is, the content you're posting is simply inaccurate, and so I'm correcting your inaccuracy.

If you simply understood the topic you're making a point of arguing, I wouldn't have any need to respond to you.

a reply to: Gnosisisfaith
Why are you taking this so personal Im not asking you to agree with me I don't even care. I like that you put so much effort into examining my thoughts, I didn't say atheism WAS a religion, I said it was becoming one in its own right and that they were organizing and you combined it into one statement in your mind. They are organizing. I don't know what that has to do with soccer though. The becoming a pseudo-religion part was my opinion. Get it straight.

a reply to: Ghost147

Fyi I ignore 80% of what you type because I don't care. You just want to be smart. You try to hard though.

originally posted by: Gnosisisfaith
a reply to: Gnosisisfaith
Why are you taking this so personal Im not asking you to agree with me I don't even care.

It's a personal thing. I'm just offering you information so you can understand how the content you've been posting is inaccurate.

originally posted by: Gnosisisfaith
a reply to: Gnosisisfaith
I didn't say atheism WAS a religion, I said it was becoming one in its own right and that they were organizing and you combined it into one statement in your mind.

And then I showed you what the definition of religion really is, and how Atheism neither is, or is becoming a religion.

originally posted by: Gnosisisfaith
a reply to: Gnosisisfaith
They are organizing. I don't know what that has to do with soccer though.

Because a small group of individuals that feel like they share a similar state of mind does not make something a religion. What does make something a religion is the definitions I posted.

originally posted by: Gnosisisfaith
a reply to: Gnosisisfaith
The becoming a pseudo-religion part was my opinion. Get it straight.

I fully understood your opinion, and I provided the information necessary to show how that opinion is an inaccurate one.

originally posted by: Gnosisisfaith
a reply to: Gnosisisfaith
Fyi I ignore 80% of what you type because I don't care. You just want to be smart. You try to hard though.

If I am wrong you're free to show how the information I've posted isn't correct.

Believe it or not, I am not 'trying to be smart", nor do I need to 'try very hard' to show how your opinions are based on false premises, misunderstandings, and incorrect information.

The reason why I respond to you is because...

a reply to: Ghost147

I stand by my comments

a reply to: windword

When the part of the world which is
Now the Sahara desert started drying
Up and when humans went from
Hunter/gatherers to farmer's....
There was no longer a bountiful
World to feed people in that and
A few other region's.

Also the suppressive fruit enzymes
That were the primary diet stopped
Suppressing testosterone.

The warlike instincts of males
Blossomed and were used to
Take scarce resources by force.

This new mindset created the
Abrahamic faiths.

Nothing mystical in this case.

Basic and simple evolution and
Anthropology.

Kev

originally posted by: Gnosisisfaith
a reply to: Ghost147

I stand by my comments

It would seem that the rejection of reality and the embracement of ignorance is an all too common stance lately on ATS.

a reply to: Gnosisisfaith

Its becoming a cultural subgroup. But that doesn't make it a religion.

All religion is a result of culture. But not all culture is a religion.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear
I said pseudo-religion, I know it isnt a religion. I was drawing a comparison.