Galatians; Getting the gospel from Christ

It fascinates me to this day that most Christians cannot separate Jesus words and actions before his death, and after. Even though there is a clear distinction throughout the new testament. This is where much confusion creeps in, and when Paul does his level best to clear up much of it in his epistles, he gets labeled "Rome's Trojan Horse", or a "false apostle". He had the best reference on his resume an apostle could have. Confirmation of his ministry and teachings by Peter.

I think you're right. Paul is inconvenient for some. But I think for others, it's either over their heads, or he isn't legalistic enough for them. When I was a Christian, I believed Paul was one of those Jesus was talking about in Matthew 23:34. Even now, taking the bible as just a story book. It makes sense that a Paul was needed and sent to fulfill the role he played.

Just my opinion though, and I know some will strongly disagree.

a reply to: DISRAELI

He says in the next chapter that the "pillars" did not actually disagree with him on essentials. They "added nothing to me... gave me the right hand of fellowship".

And again we see Paul sticking up for himself, and his doctrine... making broad claims about his standing with the apostles... all from his pen. "they added nothing to me"... bold, almost bragging... even though John did say Those who would not listen to us are not of God... He goes on in chapter two basically bashing John and James...

And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

Who seemed to be pillars?

The Brother of Jesus and the beloved John "Seemed" to be pillars?

Later on we see a dispute between Paul and Peter as well...

Do you think its possible Paul actually met someone other then the actual resurrected Jesus in his little revelation on the road to Damascus? Considering Jesus actually warned about such things happening? (Matt 24)

a reply to: Klassified

2 peter has a very late dating... Likely wasn't written or dictated by him

But more then likely written to give Pauls letters more weight... Similar to 2 timothy

Just because its in the bible doesn't necessarily mean it is a signed statement that Paul was all good with the apostles

a reply to: Akragon

a reply to: Akragon

No proof but tradition has it he and John the Beloved were taken about the same time. Peter Crucified upside down (no proof just tradition) and John was covered in oil and put on a post but did not burn. so John was exiled to Patmos Isle

a reply to: ChesterJohn

I don't see your point...

Paul was beheaded so they say... nothing written around the time he disappeared said that's how he died, we have to look to Ignatius 60 some odd years later before the first mention of how he died ... personally I don't believe he was... Far more likely he escaped and lived out the rest of his life somewhere else

Tradition isn't always the truth... just something that's been repeated over and over

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Klassified

2 peter has a very late dating... Likely wasn't written or dictated by him

But more then likely written to give Pauls letters more weight... Similar to 2 timothy

Just because its in the bible doesn't necessarily mean it is a signed statement that Paul was all good with the apostles

Yeah I know, I studied all that stuff for decades. For me, Jesus, Paul, Peter, John, and all the rest are just characters in a Shakespearean play. I am a godless heathen, you know. lol

My main point was that I can understand why Christianity takes Paul's epistles as "gospel", even if they don't really understand everything he taught. It makes sense as part of the third act of the play.

a reply to: Klassified

Fair enough...

but there is a real history embedded somewhere in the mix of legend and lore

And somewhere in that mess, there is a reason why Christianity is what it is... that being so far from what Jesus taught in most cases it makes my head spin

Perhaps I just need an exorcist though

originally posted by: Klassified
But I think for others, it's either over their heads, or he isn't legalistic enough for them.

I think there is certainly a category of people who read the Old Testament more closely than they read the "familiar" Paul, so they simply don't notice that he contradicts their growing legalism.

a reply to: Akragon
The "encounter" is evidently key to Paul's position, and a genuine encounter would justify any "bragging".

In Paul's favour is the fact that the "pillars" did endorse him. If there had been any evil in him or his teaching, they would surely have been able to recognise it, if they had any power from God at all.

There is also the fact that his essential teaching is the same as the teaching in the rest of the New Testament.
We find in both Paul and John the teaching of the Christ pre-existent, before his human birth.
We find in both Paul and John the teaching of the significance of the death on the Cross.
We find in both Paul and John teaching on the significance of the Resurrection.
We find an emphasis on the importance of Faith all the way through the New Testament, including all the Gospels, and including even James (whose letter both begins and ends on this theme).
Whatever Spirit is guiding Paul is the same Spirit that everybody else in the church has got.

If John and Paul are saying the same thing, Paul can hardly be counted among those who are "not listening to John".
In fact John specifies the people he means. They are those who refuse to recognise "that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh".
In this respect, as in others, Paul is included as part of the "us".

While Peter, as we will see in the next chapter, was temporarily betraying the insight which God had already given him in the Cornelius episode.
His belief on the point at issue was exactly the same as Paul's, as he showed by his previous conduct in eating with the Gentiles. But he provoked Paul's criticism by starting to act against his own beliefs.

a reply to: Akragon
The Pillars of the church recognized the difference between the two Gospels. They realized the messages were different and as such they decreed no GENTILE was to be yoked to the Law. BOLD TEXT MINE

Acts 15:1 ¶ And certain men which came down from Judaea a jew from jeruslaemtaught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. a different gospel than that of Paul
2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6 ¶ And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. Read Peter's preaching in Acts 10 was cut short of requiring law as he did in Acts 2
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. Grace has always been a part of any Gospel just when it is received was different
12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. gave them instruction but there was no enforcement of it
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
22 ¶ Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
30 So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:
31 Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.
32 And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.
33 And after they had tarried there a space, they were let go in peace from the brethren unto the apostles.
34 Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still.
35 Paul also and Barnabas continued in Antioch, teaching and preaching the word of the Lord, with many others also.
This is another description of the same event
Gal 2:1 ¶ Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.
2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.
3 But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person: ) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:
7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me the Gospel of the Grace of God/Gospel of Christ, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;The Gospel of the Kingdom
8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles: )
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

Galatians was written later than the records of Acts.

The pillars of the church did in fact recognize at that time that there was a difference between the two Gospels.

N.B. This thread is the first in a series.
The rest of the letter will be covered at later dates.

a reply to: DISRAELI

The letter is one letter not a series and needs to be kept in context of the first chapter.

a reply to: ChesterJohn
Yes, indeed, but there is too much important content to be covered in one thread of 7500 characters.
My normal practice is to finish with an Index thread which brings together the different parts of a series.

a reply to: DISRAELI

So what I posted above is proof the Apostles knew there was a difference between the Gospel of the Kingdom and the Gospel of the Grace of God.

And Paul with that knowledge admonished the Galatians not to be so quickly moved to the Gospel of the Kingdom which he call another Gospel after they had heard the Gospel of the Grace of God. Because the Gospel of the Kingdom had required obedience to the law in accordance to Moses. Jesus Showed that every time he healed a person he required they go show themselves to the priests and present the sacrifice that was required by the Law.

One was for the Circumcision and one for he uncircumcised. Later after the rejection of the Holy Ghost God's plan was for Paul to take the Gospel of Grace to the world and in this current age it is one gospel of the Grace of God for all. After the gathering it will all revert back to preparing Israel for the kingdom and the Kingdom Gospel.

a reply to: ChesterJohn
Then, I must repeat, you are missing the point of Paul's statement in v7 that;
"THERE IS NO OTHER GOSPEL".
There is a DIFFERENT message [HETERON], but there is no such thing as a genuine ALTERNATIVE gospel [ALLO]. The different message is a "perversion" of the gospel of Christ.
So he isn't saying they should ignore the other message because God doesn't intend it for them. He is saying that they should ignore it because God hasn't intended it for anybody.
The Jews whom Paul encounters are saved by the same gospel that he presents to the Gentiles. They are certainly not saved by circumcision and adherence to the Law. If anything, they are saved by their faith like everybody else. In fact he tells us in a later chapter that those who belong to the Law are to be "cast out", as the sons of the "bondwoman".

Need I remind you that Paul pronounces a curse on anyone who offers another gospal?

a reply to: DISRAELI

His gospel comes from Christ.

And the crowd goes wild!

a reply to: DISRAELI

I fully agree there is no other gospel that saves since the time of Paul unto today than that of the gospel of the Grace of God also known as the Gospel of Christ.

But there are two other gospels clearly taught in the NT the Gospel of the Kingdom and the Everlasting Gospel. to use or preach any of those other two will put you under a curse as stated in Galatians 1.

a reply to: ChesterJohn
The gospel of the Kingdom is 1)Turn back to God (repent and believe), with 2) the urgent reason for doing so (the kingdom is at hand). Mark ch1 v15.
The gospel of Paul is 1) Turn back to God (repent and believe), with 2) the urgent reason for doing so (the Day of the Lord Jesus and judgement).
The eternal gospel is 1) Turn back to God (fear God and worship him), with 2) the urgent reason for doing so (the hour of judgement has come).
These are three different expressions of what is basically the same message.
In each case, the key to salvation is faith, not works.
The curse of Paul is directed against those who offer the works of the Law as an alternative route.
There is only one gospel, and it does not incorporate the works of the Law.

a reply to: DISRAELI

In Paul's favour is the fact that the "pillars" did endorse him. If there had been any evil in him or his teaching, they would surely have been able to recognise it, if they had any power from God at all.

And they most certainly did have the tools to govern the church. These were given to various ones of the congregation to not only teach but also to discern evil spirits that would try to infiltrate the church. (1st Corinthians 12:4-11) - That would also apply to Saul/Paul as he was approved by the pillars and embraced as one sent from God (Apostle).