Netflix's Docuseries Making a Murderer

We've all prolly watched Dexter, NCIS and CSI, Luminol and a Blacklight would make the crimscene light up like a christmass tree if the events proffered by the prosecution are to be believed.

All through the show i kept an open mind as to weather SA did it or not but regardless if he was guilty, the means that the County went to to get their conviction should have led to a misstrial or even a dismissal due to tecnicalities. Crims who have been caught bang to rights have got away scott free on minute errors in police proceedure or procecution.

I would be looking VERY closely at events from early in the Avery past and seeking some kind of Vendetta by Lenk and Co's family and friends. There is something very deep buried in this story i cant help thinking. There also is some hidden issue going on in the wider Avery clan that is bubbling under that is not spoken about.

If i didnt know better, i would swear i was watching a season of Justified, given the seemingly deep seated clan rivalries going on in that county.

a reply to: Sinfulknowledge

I didn't say anything about getting rid of DNA, just that getting rid of BLOOD isn't actually very difficult. I totally agree that its suspicious that at the crime scene where this woman was supposedly brutally murdered that they could not find any of her DNA (skin, hair, blood, sweat, tears, ect).

What really did it for me was seeing the interviews with Brendan being lead by the hand/nose to say whatever the detective wanted him to say, the fact that the car was just left on Avery's land, not a speck of blood or dna in the trailer where an horrific murder allegedly took place, the numerous searches, but most of all the needle hole in the vial of blood. I mean really...why wasn't this ever explained I would have thought this would have been the major lynchpin for the Defence yet it barely got a mention.

More information on evidence left out of the series
Steven Avery Evidence

I've also now discovered that the Petition for a retrial addressed to the President has been refused saying that the President doesn't have the authority to order a retrial or a pardon

its actually very difficult, if forensics can detect blood even after you bleached it how can you say you got rid of it, its technically still there, and my point about the DNA was not that you were saying that you could clean it, its that even if blood was cleaned with bleach there would still be DNA left, but in most cases where bleach was used forensics can still detect blood stains, patterns, the blood itself and they can tell the difference between blood and bleach.

If Avery bleached and cleaned there would be evidence of that bleach detected with bluestar, that room would have lit up like a new years eve show. But you didn't hear the state bring up evidence of a room that was coated in bleach did you, which in my opinion is because they didn't find any because Avery didn't clean at all, the garage speaks volumes, LOOK AT ALL THE DUST!!!! thats YEARS of dust, wouldn't dust be the first to go in a cleaning situation?

So we know bleach doesn't destroy DNA, and we know we can detect blood and bleach and tell the difference so how can you say it is easy to clean?

Do you mean to the naked eye? If that's what you meant then yes its quite simple to make it look clean, but if you mean that it was possible that Avery cleaned so well that forensics couldn't find blood, DNA, or bleach and it is easy to do that then i think your mistaken.

Steve Avery case transcript files released.


link

I saw this theory on FB newsfeed that apparently's been making the social media rounds, but it's probably one of the better theories I've heard. It basically says that Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych killed her and that the police illegally were searching the property before the vehicle was discovered, which is how the plate number was called in.

“The police didn’t kill Theresa Halbach. Andrew Colborn located that RAV4 with the assistance of Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas who illegally trespassed onto the Avery Salvage Yard on the night of November 3rd 2005. Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas suspected something was up since the Avery Salvage Yard was the last place they knew Theresa visited on Oct.31st Halloween day. They went snooping on the property and found the car. They checked the car and found the key in the ignition and blood in the cargo area. Mike or Ryan removed the key from the ignition to ensure that no one could easily move the car off of the Avery property… freaked out about this huge discovery they call the Manitowoc Sheriffs Department. Andrew Colborn fielded the call that night and went out and met Ryan and Mike at the Salvage Yard so he could view the car for himself. Ryan and Mike show him the car and to be certain its Halbachs he “calls” in the plate number to dispatch. Colborn has to “call” in… instead of “radio” in… the plate number to Manitowoc dispatch because he wasn’t in his police cruiser at the moment, but rather on foot and in the “field’ on the Avery Salvage property. This mistake places Colborn at the scene and in contact with Halbachs RAV4… 2 days before it is officially located on November 5th, 2005, by Pam Sturm….

This is problematic for Colborn because all call and radio transmissions to dispatch are recorded and logged onto the Manitowoc Police server. Andrew Colborn is now operating outside of police protocol at a potential crime scene that he has no official directive to be at. He tells Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas to basically STFU about what they found and not mention to anyone that they were ever on the Avery Salvage property that night. Ryan or Mike turns the RAV4 key over to Andrew Colborn. Mike and Ryan are told to go home. Andrew Colborn then immediately calls Lt. James Lenk and briefs him about the discovery of the Halbach car and breaches of protocol he committed on the Avery property, also about Ryan Hillegas and Mike Halbach being there. Lt James Lenk realizing that Colborn’s calling in Halbachs plate is a serious mistake with potential consequences orders Andrew Colborn to remove the license plate from Halbach’s car and then report to him immediately.

What James Lenk and Andrew Colborn, or the others for that matter, don’t realize at this point and are completely unaware of is that Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych have kidnapped, raped, shot and then burned Theresa Halbach in the privacy of the gravel quarry off of Jambo Rd on Halloween evening. They choose to burn her body to dispose of their DNA evidence of the crimes. They hid Halbach’s car in the rear of Avery Salvage and wiped it clean of their prints. I believe it is Scott Tadych’s idea to secretly transport the cremains of Halbach from the gravel quarry and dispose them into Steven Avery’s burn pit. Scott Tadych transports Halbach’s cremains in secret by using one of Barb Jandas burn barrels from her yard. Scott Tadych fails to collect all of Halbach’s cremains from the original burn site in the gravel quarry, thus leaving some behind that FBI investigators later find… but he also fails in making certain all of Halbach’s cremains are out of Barb Jandas burn barrel after dumping them into Steven Avery’s burn pit. This is why investigators found small bits of Halbach in Barb Jandas burn barrel. Thus making a total of three sites where Halbach’s cremains are found. Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey are unaware that Ryan Hillegas and Mike Halbach have found Theresas car on the property and that Lenk and Colborn are now involved and in play with their scheme.

By shear colossal luck, two completely independent frame jobs targeting one man, Steven Avery were shaping up into the perfect storm. On one front, from Lenk and Colborn regarding the RAV4, ….and on the other unconnected front by Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey regarding the cremains of Theresa Halbach. One party wasn’t aware of the other’s involvements at any point during the days leading up to the official discovery of Halbach’s RAV4 at the Avery Salvage Yard hence why the investigation and murder trial made zero sense to anyone especially the Jury.

None of the evidence could be connected because it was all unrelated… everybody was guessing. But Buting and Strang had zeroed in on a part of it but couldn’t fully form a solid defense to prove it. The Jury couldn’t conceive that Manitowoc officers could have conspired to kill Theresa Halbach to frame Steven Avery as Ken Kratz insisted they had to if they wanted to follow the theory the defense presented of the frame up of Steven Avery by Manitowoc officials. And Ken Kratz was right… Imagine Scott Tadych’s confused and utter relief when Steve Avery’s blood was found in the Halbach car and the RAV4 key found in Steve Avery’s bedroom….. he must have been like…. WTF?! A quote from Scott Tadych after Steven Avery is convicted of Theresa Halbach’s murder…. “THIS IS THE GREATEST THING TO EVER HAPPEN” ….. We will see Scott, we will see…………………”

a reply to: SkipperJohn
The link takes you to a 404 error page but if you click the links on the top you can manage to get to the transcripts

thanks for this! I'm so glad they are out now, gonna have a lot to read tonight, herbal meds and coffee tonight : D

a reply to: Sinfulknowledge

thanks. to late for me to edit. This should work.

link

a reply to: cleverhans

That by far makes so much more sense than any of the theories I have heard! It makes more sense than what the documentary and trial said happened.

There is also a cold case investigator who bloggs who is looking at serial killer Ed Edwards who was living an hours drive from the Avery plot. Having looked at EE's MO he does seem a viable candidate.

Making the Newspapers too now

Cold Case Cameron

...been waiting for someone to bring that up.

I listen to the Darkness Radio interview with John Cameton regarding the Ed Edwards theory and my mouth dropped after learning how similar the murders were. Not to mention how this serial killer would apparently somehow find his way into his victims' documentary (you be the judge if you think he appears in Making of a Murderer as referenced in the interview). To know the serial killer happened to be passing through the same night Theresa was murdered raises my suspicions even more.

Take a listen: podbay.fm...

a reply to: CheeseCurd

Thanks for the link. I haven't heard of the Ed Edwards theory before.

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I cant help but think, if Avery gets out of prison, the original $36 million lawsuit would be pocket change compared to a second lawsuit. I mean the original $36 million would skyrocket.

Then I think, the county, or a few in the department, might be thinking the same thing, he does have a new lawyer after all, really good one too I guess. So regardless if he's innocent or not, they could be coming up with new evidence just to keep him in jail, or maybe something worse, like a death made to look like an accident, killed by another inmate or something. Ide be concerned for his safety. Or if he does get out and produce a new higher number lawsuit, maybe the cycle will continue, and someone else will go missing and be found dead in his yard just to get him back in and prevent the lawsuit. Or am I off the wall here.

a reply to: C84K2

I think your right on but instead someone else it will likely be him dying mysteriously.. The thought of him being innocent is sickening... Railroded twice, and robbed of that much of your life, add into the equation public perception of him... If acquitted even if proven innocent without doubt many will view him as a dispicable human being.... Honestly if i were advising him or it was me, id offer the county a chance to avoid a lawsuit for 1-2 million and just take it and disapear from the spotlight.

Damn this story infuriates me. Why not check into it to put it too rest? Kratz wants him to confess in order to profit from this? Cant believe this POS scumbag is allowed to continue to practice law. Hes no more interested in the truth being known than anyone in the police department. I mean Avery's request would be pretty damn simple to look into for Kratz.

Sorry for those interested Kratz and Avery exchange letters, Kratz's response is another glimpse into how much a scumbag he seems to be.

www.yahoo.com...

originally posted by: Squirlli
a reply to: Sinfulknowledge

I didn't say anything about getting rid of DNA, just that getting rid of BLOOD isn't actually very difficult. I totally agree that its suspicious that at the crime scene where this woman was supposedly brutally murdered that they could not find any of her DNA (skin, hair, blood, sweat, tears, ect).

Actually, getting "rid of blood" is VERY difficult. Even cleaning up a moderate amount of blood is difficult. Cleaning up EVERY SPECK of blood after slitting someone's throat, as the prosecutor said was the cause of death in one of the trials, or even after shooting someone in the head, as he proffered in the other trial would be nearly impossible.

Being a nurse, I have cleaned up my fair share of blood over the years and trust me, it isn't easy. It's a difficult task and takes a long time to get it all.

a reply to: cleverhans

This is nothing but someone's "theory" that is getting passed around on social media.

There is ZERO evidence that her vehicle was on the Avery property that night and no evidence that that is where Colburn called it in from.

I could speculate all sorts of things about where I think Colburn called the plate in from...but I won't because I have nothing to back it up with.

If Colbjrn was led to her vehicle by those two guys he wouldn't have waited an additional TWO DAYS to have some random woman "find" it...He saw that car someplac else. No way he'd give SA a two day head start on getting rid of the vehicle...no way SA just lets that sit on his property, either.

That car was planted there, by who we do not know...But ask yourself who had he motive, and means, to carry out a plot to frame SA for murder and you'll come up with a list of individuals who had the means and opportunity to do all this and more.

originally posted by: swimmer15
Damn this story infuriates me. Why not check into it to put it too rest? Kratz wants him to confess in order to profit from this? Cant believe this POS scumbag is allowed to continue to practice law. Hes no more interested in the truth being known than anyone in the police department. I mean Avery's request would be pretty damn simple to look into for Kratz.

Sorry for those interested Kratz and Avery exchange letters, Kratz's response is another glimpse into how much a scumbag he seems to be.

www.yahoo.com...

Kratz is a pig and it seems to me he may be back on his meds...Which we all know isn't a good thing for him, lol!

This is just disgusting to me, that he would actually go after SA (again) to make his book a success. What a whack job!

a reply to: lovebeck

I have to disagree with you. I am a veterinary technician, and quite often I myself get covered in blood, due to an animal hit by car, dog fight, c-section, being bitten, ect and have never had a difficult time cleaning up blood, getting it out of fabric, or up out of concrete and other materials. The quantity does correlate to the time it takes to clean it, but it is actually not all that difficult.

a reply to: Squirlli

Yea but we are talking about blood trace or I watched too many CSI?

You know where they throw something on the floor and then blood will glow or something?

a reply to: Squirlli

*smacks head* let me ask you, when you clean the blood up do you do some forensics to make sure there is no trace of blood? If not then how would you know you really cleaned it?

if forensics can detect blood even after it was CLEANED how can you say it is easy to clean when it is still detectable?

Just because you can not physically see the blood does not mean that it's not there
so technically it's not all that easy to clean. You get it on you clothes and wash it forensics can still find traces of blood.
You bleach and scrub a floor or carpet or wall or anything (especially if it is a porous surface) blood can still be detected.

just read the links i posted on the previous page.