My Indian Friend

So I'm going to tell you about a conversation I had tonight with a new friend I made a few weeks ago. This man is from Mumbai, an Indian national. He works in a restaurant here in my city, and got here from working on a cruise ship which he "jumped" from. He now works in an Indian restaurant on my street, where the owner is a former Indian national, started a business, and now employs four men, consistently, who work in the restaurant, and live in a house he owns a block a way from me. The exchange is 6 days of work, tip pooling paid out once a week, no hourly wage in exchange for a place to live with the four other waiters.

So, I have made friends with this man. His life in Mumbai was very hard. His son is still in Mumbai, living with his mother in law. His wife is in Dubai, doing henna tattoos for the wealthy, there.

He is a good man. His take on living in America and coming here, illegally, is that anyone who "lands" here, has it made, after that.

He asked me, tonight, about those he sees on the street corner, looking "healthy and well enough to work hard," panhandling, asking for money. "Why are they doing that," he asked? Are they not conning people, and asking for handouts when they could work for their living?

On one hand, I am blown away by his innocence. On the other, I am angered by his lack of understanding. I try, very hard, to get across how complicated this issue is. And it's very complicated.

I tried to explain to him that those of us born in America, through circumstance or issues, may find themselves down on their luck, suffering through very little fault or actions of their own (justified by the high percentage of military and veterans of foreign wars who inhabit the streets after serving), in being homeless and jobless, disenfranchised from the "normal" societal quotients and activities….and once this happens to someone, and they inhabit a corner with a cardboard sign, they are very unlikely to rebound.

He asked, "But….their clothes look clean and new, and their appearance is as though they are fit and healthy and can work. Why don't they?"

I must say now, I am not making this up. These are exactly the questions he asked.
My reply was that tomorrow I could take him to any one of eight shelters in this ten block radius I live within, and show him how you could get for free a shower, clothing, and whatever else you needed, and still tomorrow be out on the same street, allowing for that appearance. In other words, between Mumbai and here, in America, what it "looks and seems" to you, isn't necessarily the case. We have massive poverty here, just as you do, in Mumbai. And, in fact, this is the case, all over the world. You cannot judge by what you see or perceive. It is more complicated than that. However, it doesn't mean that those on the street here have any more of a chance than they do in Mumbai, or anywhere else in the world, right now.

This is the reality of the world, today.

Disenfranchisement of whole peoples everywhere is the rule, not the exception, no matter what country you are in.

The fact is, if you give a man and his family an acre or two, a milk cow, some chickens for eggs and a plot to grow vegetables, he will likely not commit any crime, as long as he can feed himself and his family. We've long known that crime is proportionately related to poverty, and the inability to feed oneself and one's family. This is a fact. www.psychologytoday.com... There are many other links to this, but I digress….

There is a 1% ruling class worldwide with the wealth and control to oversee us all, economically, and therefore, socially. We are living with the fall out of that. Introduce poverty, introduce crime, deconstruct any social construct in this way, and then introduce a police force to enforce and apprehend the result, then the judicial system to judge the wayward as a result (judges, clerks of court, attorneys), and then culminate with the penal system in the form of (now in this country, privatized prisons, providing free labor for vast industrial systems….like aquaculture and chicken mcnuggets) industry at a cheap rate of labor, guards, etc….and you have provided "jobs" for a plethora of peoples that "buy" into your industrialized, socialized system of conformity and nonconformity, making millions for that 1%, reasserting their power and delivering wholesale, while providing governmental regimes and political escapades rampant with allowing guns vs. drugs over the borders, and the whole situation whereby which my Indian friend is employed here, now….

While I could never wait tables in the restaurant he is working at…..because I am an American…..
Interesting and complicated times, for sure…..my friends.
tetra50

a reply to: tetra50

I loved your post. Very intuitive. I totally get what you are saying and what the man you speak of is experiencing. India is an aweful place to live if you are a peasant. So I get his gratitude. We are a first world country that is rapidly evaporating into a third world country.

The reason for this is absolute and unadulterated greed. These fu**ers have sold off everything in this country and have put it in their pockets. They have treasonously agreed to trade agreements that will eventually doom this country. I am not even approaching the Federal Reserve. That is a topic for another time. That a change is available within the constructs of our current polical system is such a joke. And that people believe that if this one or that one is elected, #'s gonna get brighter is just a delerious pipe dream.

He may be having a disconnect due to the difference in how our societies earn our living standards. Hundreds of millions of people in India still have no access to power grid. Therefore credit cards and loans do not even factor into those peoples lives. They literally sustain themselves with what their labor can produce from their hands and feet and rest of the body. Therefore, even if a man who harvests dung for fuel so that he can pay for a door to his shack where there is currently only an open doorway, he still has a home based on his standards.

Now on our standards, the same man could easily be designated homeless. Yet, he still labors everyday. This is the perspective I assume your friend is seeing through, because he is from that society. So he sees a man with no home but able bodied and decently dressed, yet not making an effort to "harvest the dung" so to speak in whatever equivalent that is here in the states. He is essentially a beggar to your friend. He is actually doing just that. Because he also has a spot somewhere nearby where he is asking for dough. Could be a couple pallets stacked up with a blanket over. He just wants a good pillow you know? Maybe hand warmers.

But what your friend does not see, is the possible thousands to hundreds of thousands this homeless man may be in debt too. There are any number of reasons he could be carrying such debt to his SS # , but in many cases it came from poor financial planning in an attempt not to have to ever "harvest dung" or the Western Equivalent . Loans loans and more easy credit to live well off.

That easy credit is the illusion your friend cannot see, because it is not so easy over there. There is no magic numbers for him to type into a computer at a bank to be calculated by a computer on electricity to generate this virtual wealth we all have so we can buy smart phones and cars and $150 sneakers, Ipad's, washing machines, refrigerators, or tv where they come from. If someone in his country, the average citizen wanted to do that, they will literally need to generate that wealth in real time with the fruit of their labor. Not too many IOU's going around from Chase and Citi. yes their governments and corporate businesses likely have access to it, but not the majority of their citizens.

This is why he has a difficult time understanding IMO. There is a heavy cost to own the things we do in this society, and sometimes we forget half the people living on Earth still do not have access to clean water, or electricity. Rolling brownout at best in some places. This is why the term "we are living in a fantasy, an illusion" is coming up more and more nowadays. Because for the most part, we are. Disconnected from the labor required to actually provide everything we take for granted.

This is a recommended read to see it slightly more from his POV

It has some internal insight to the Indian people's energy situation.

I've never seen a well dressed homeless person in Detroit. I see homeless people every day and they are far from well dressed. I live on less then $10k a year and I donate what I can when I can even if it's a dollar or a cigarette. If it were me standing out on the corner I know I'd want someone to help me if they could. Who am I to pass judgement on them? I've never walked in their shoes.

a reply to: wantsome

He asked, "But….their clothes look clean and new, and their appearance is as though they are fit and healthy and can work. Why don't they?"

You are hearing it from a man that just came from a land where a quarter of their population, nearly the entire population of the US, has no electricity

India is focused on both increasing its influence abroad and raising its living standards at home. Its per capita income is just $1,778. (The comparable figure for the US is $51,013; China’s is $6,050.) Even India’s wealthy are poorer than their counterparts in the West; of the nation’s richest 10 percent, a third live in households with no refrigerators. Worse, some 300 million Indians—a quarter of the population—have no electricity at all. Nearly as many have only intermittent access to it. Most of these people use kerosene for lighting and cook their food on wood or dung fires. The smoke kills about 1.3 million Indians a year, according to the World Health Organization.

It is more plausible many of the pan handlers look cleaner because there are many people to hand out free tshirts, socks, and gift cards like I try to do as often as I feel I can. That also not so common over there. Also not every building over there will be connected to power like anyone here typing on this forum. A person may have to travel miles and miles and miles over the course of his day to refill his canteen with safe drinking water (relatively speaking) . It still may have certain worms and parasites, but it is not laced with chemicals that will shut down your organs. Here any homeless person can walk two minutes or less and ask for free water.

Just imaging that yes, humans still have to live this way not by choice in this world. is difficult even for me to comprehend the struggle when I grew up when the internet was a teenager and there was always a automobile to take me somewhere. And never, EVER have I ever had to honestly worry about whether my water would be safe. The once in a couple years aging water pipe burst that drops pressure does not even count, because we can just get in our car and get bottled, cool,filtered water from the abundant retail structures we are afforded.

THANK YOU GOD I was born in this country. Dont forget a water heater!

a reply to: tetra50

I quit reading when I got to the 'give a man a cow and some land, and presto, no more crime'. You forgot the the daily ration of whatever his vice is. There is a victim mentality in america. You might as well make sure that everyone has the newest designer labels and the nicest cars, too. Materialism is a western problem and it is the reason that healthy grown adults, for the most part, pan handle.

originally posted by: onthedownlow
a reply to: tetra50

I quit reading when I got to the 'give a man a cow and some land, and presto, no more crime'. You forgot the the daily ration of whatever his vice is. There is a victim mentality in america. You might as well make sure that everyone has the newest designer labels and the nicest cars, too. Materialism is a western problem and it is the reason that healthy grown adults, for the most part, pan handle.

The whole thing spins my mind to asking the question,

Who is John Galt?

a reply to: tetra50

He is illegally there, why dont you report him to the police?

A friend of mine was in charge of the homeless shelters, food etc in our county. She said that the vast majority of the people you see begging at the shopping malls are meth addicts. She was advocating giving the homeless chits (available for free) that would provide food shelter and clothing to those in need. A big part of this movement to giving out the chits was to reduce the meth use.

a reply to: Wildbob77

it would not surprise me. I have argued with the same man near a home depot/walmart/target/best buy/staples shopping center that tries and solicits cash using the ol "hey my care is out of gas down the street spare a couple bucks" and he has a gas can with him. I told him i had no cash, but I will fill up your truck using my cc. Hop in I will even take you there. He turns it down. I said ok, how about I just meet you over there?Says nm have a good day. I responded "I guess you really dont need the gas huh? So why you begging for gas money?

Six months later he approaches me on the other side, obviously does not remember. I cut him off before he even started "Listen man I offered to fill up your truck when you asked me this earlier this year, and you turned me down. Now I am telling you again, I will give you all the gas you want lets just go there and I will fill you up and the gas can. He hesitated and I responded " oh but you dont really want the gas? you just want cash to go get whatever bull# you want??" So yea I really wanted to just punch him, but I had all my kids with me to do some shopping.

The nerve of some people.

originally posted by: GrantedBail
a reply to: tetra50

I loved your post. Very intuitive. I totally get what you are saying and what the man you speak of is experiencing. India is an aweful place to live if you are a peasant. So I get his gratitude. We are a first world country that is rapidly evaporating into a third world country.

The reason for this is absolute and unadulterated greed. These fu**ers have sold off everything in this country and have put it in their pockets. They have treasonously agreed to trade agreements that will eventually doom this country. I am not even approaching the Federal Reserve. That is a topic for another time. That a change is available within the constructs of our current polical system is such a joke. And that people believe that if this one or that one is elected, #'s gonna get brighter is just a delerious pipe dream.

Hey Granted Bail: Thanks for your reply and considerations. You've hit the nail on the head, so to speak, with your reply in many different ways, but imho, the last that I bolded, that you wrote, is exactly right…..while I so wish it wasn't.
Happy New Year's to you.
tetra

a reply to: AmericanRealist

Hey American Realist: Happy New Year, to you.
I agree with most of what you've represented, and welcome your insight. I understand that both he and I come from drastically different POVs and defining terms in what poverty and homelessness looks like…..which is quite a bit different in these two places. I welcome more illumination into that juxtasposition.

I think my overall point, is, though, that what we think we observe and how it seems, may not totally represent how it is. But I think your post addressed that, as well.
Thanks for reading and your participation.
tetra

a reply to: wantsome

Hey want some: Happy New Year. Thanks for reading and replying.

I've never seen a well dressed homeless person in Detroit. I see homeless people every day and they are far from well dressed.

I'm talking "well dressed." And that term, even, has diametrically different defining traits here in America, then it does in India. I'm talking about his perception they had a pair of jeans, mostly without holes, an intact shirt of some kind and shoes without holes, all clean. In countries like India, the poor frequently don't have the luxury even of such basics, and many other countries, besides.

If it were me standing out on the corner I know I'd want someone to help me if they could.

Me,too, friend. Me, too….

Who am I to pass judgement on them? I've never walked in their shoes.

This was the last thing I said to my friend in the conversation.
Take care.
tetra

a reply to: AmericanRealist

All important elucidations, for sure.
tetra

originally posted by: onthedownlow
a reply to: tetra50

I quit reading when I got to the 'give a man a cow and some land, and presto, no more crime'. You forgot the the daily ration of whatever his vice is. There is a victim mentality in america. You might as well make sure that everyone has the newest designer labels and the nicest cars, too. Materialism is a western problem and it is the reason that healthy grown adults, for the most part, pan handle.

Hey onthedownlow. Happy New Year's.
I don't see how you got from independent subsistence (give a person a cow, etc.) to the daily ration of vice and victim mentality. Perhaps your post simply missed a few points of pivot to lead to your conclusion, and you might care to further enlighten on your line of logic?

If you wish to discuss crime as related to vices and victim mentalities, then I suggest you write a little more about your position as those things relate. It's relatively accepted that poverty is a major underpinning and causation factor in crime…….
You propose that it is vice, instead? So people who panhandle are largely just making money begging instead of getting other work, and it's lagely because they are paying for vices, which is why, of course, they find themselves disenfranchised in terms of regular employment? Because of their vices?

I agree with you about materialism. Whether you are poor or not, wherever you happen to be, materialism is a fact and vice, all by itself. And it influences just about everyone. Materialism isn't that different than hedonism, or hypersexuality, or addicition and vice, itself. It's all part of the very same mechanisms, imho.
tetra

originally posted by: asen_y2k
a reply to: tetra50

He is illegally there, why dont you report him to the police?

Hey asen_y2k: Thanks for your reply.
However, I am neither the police, nor INS, and I think the title should have been obvious: My Indian Friend
Happy New Year.
tetra

originally posted by: Wildbob77
A friend of mine was in charge of the homeless shelters, food etc in our county. She said that the vast majority of the people you see begging at the shopping malls are meth addicts. She was advocating giving the homeless chits (available for free) that would provide food shelter and clothing to those in need. A big part of this movement to giving out the chits was to reduce the meth use.

Hey Wildbob77: Happy New Year.
Although I admire any innovations available or that anyone comes up with, I have to say that I would hesitate to form my opinion on this complex issue based on the input of one friend, or one expert. I've paid attention to this issue for many years. In fact, I've been homeless a few times, myself. I didn't panhandle, but I certainly needed shelter now and then, in such circumstances.

However, it wasn't drug addiction that led me to that point. Not to say that drug addiction plays no part in what we're talking about; obviously, it does and often. But then you have to disseminate and take an honest look at the causes of drug addiction. That's exactly why these identifying factor issues are so hand in hand, because the causation factros of both things are the same "at risk" identifiers for both problems. Surely, that should tell people something. All homeless people are not active addicts. And all active addicts aren't homeless…..

I welcome your opinion and thanks for reading.
tetra

So Happy Thanksgiving in 2019, folks. An update to this illegal immigrants' status. Clint is now in ICE custody. He will be deported back to Mumbai in the next three months. The last I heard from him, while trying to make my own ends meet vis a vis Airbnb in my 3 bdrm. apt., where for the last year, I can't find a single American citizen who would/could be a good roommate, be specific and agree to terms and rent, etc.......is he needed a garage to sleep outside in while looking for more work.

Maybe we should all be more thankful.

I did whatever I could for Clint, though I couldn't do a lot.

I sincerely hope that while you eat turkey and spend time with family today, and perhaps watch football, that you understand there are many people out in the world, in Venezuela, for instance, who can't afford some kind of "feast" today, nor even have the experience of what it is to be an American, as much as we criticize it, and also defend it, without any true understanding of what that is, what it was in the past, what it should mean now, etc. Kindness and humanity exemplify, whatever you perceive to be going on around you and how dark it really is, what it means to be a human being given any scope of freedom......

Happy Thanksgiving,
Tetra50

originally posted by: asen_y2k
a reply to: tetra50

He is illegally there, why dont you report him to the police?

Sorry, it's taken me years to answer this question.

But I think you would be able to tell from my post how I feel and think about the illegal immigrant question, and global migration, as it applies to countries with populous in need, as opposed to countries with a population living in more opportunity for a better life: a roof, a floor, a bathroom, and opportunities to work and earn money to improve their lives.

Surely, we are at some kind of cusp, now, whereby we realize as PEOPLE that climate change and many other issues affect the populous (PEOPLE LIVING IN OTHER COUNTRIES with far less or NO opportunities to imrpove their or their childrens' lives) and eschew the given "reasons," and seek to better the lives of others. Or maybe not. Maybe people aren't geared that way, but more willing to just argue and prevent others' from their own success.

It's really that simple in a way. Is your survival and success hinged to the idea that you prevent that from others, or are you willing and wanting to take care of all your brethren, to make sure the most of us succeed in the best survival options we have?
tetra50

a reply to: tetra50

It's really that simple in a way. Is your survival and success hinged to the idea that you prevent that from others, or are you willing and wanting to take care of all your brethren, to make sure the most of us succeed in the best survival options we have? tetra50

Spending Thanksgiving week with family. It is a tradition started over 15 years ago when we started branching out into our individual families, as we started developing new traditions after marriages, births, and continued growth of family.

Being an old fart now, I sit back and watch as we have started passing the baton. I see the little children that sat at the kid's table, now sitting their children at the kid's tables. Most interesting to me is looking at those children that were given the most, now being the ones that give the least, and expect the most.

I no longer feel it is my responsibility to make sure my brethren succeed, or survive. I willingly give, and experience the joy of giving and providing those that have a need, a roof, a floor, a bathroom, as long as their need is joined with a desire and a dedication to working towards self survival, commitment, and dedication, and towards a better life for themselves.

I am no longer willing to invest more into others then they are willing to invest in themselves. Watching these children that think their livelihood is determined by the efforts, blood, sweat, and tears, of others, with the most they have to contribute is a demand or a complaint, has changed my mind about what is helpful. Giving too much doesn't help, it hinders and creates a false sense of security for their future.