Air Force drone pilots expose U.S. government of murder.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

If the president and your superior officers give you an order you follow it.

I think that excuse was tried at Nuremberg but didn't wash .

People with absolutely no working knowledge of the military, sure do love to lecture on the minutiae of it all.

When you pull the "unlawful order card" as a member of the military, you'd better have damned good proof, and it had better be something of big substance. Otherwise the person is just another moron guilty of dereliction of duty or desertion.

You don't get to cite your "hurt feewings" or "deep philosophical disagreements". You gave those up when you signed the dotted line.

It had better be something like commanders ordering direct murder of civilians, with proof and witnesses. Like what happened in Mai Lai Vietnam, where the whole concept took hold in the American military.

This story is the absolute opposite. Some random schmoes grousing about their feewings and insinuating that this means somebody else is vewy vewy bad.

Sorry, fail on this one. But plenty of jumping up and down and flailing, as usual.

originally posted by: stuthealien
a reply to: Belgianbloke

to me the rotten meat is the soldiers not doing their job which they signed up for.
i'm glad they do not have to watch my back as i would most likely end up dead if i had to rely on this sorry excuse for soldiers

Absolutely, good on you as a throwback to logic and reason. And adulthood, and a man among kids.

When you join the military, you are signing up to kill when necessary, when those with infinitely more knowledge than you deem it necessary. Just like being a cop.

Only in today's raging mental illness industry is the military looked at as nothing more than a really, really big target for gay pride, undermining America, and "my civil rights".

For the last 240 years, it's been a vehicle for protecting America, her interests abroad, and her allies.

Now a bunch of ninnies have set to work to change it into a method to sell LGBT, socialism / communism, and general anarchy / confusion. They're trying to drag down the police profession similarly. Yet they invariably cry for the protection when it suits them.

a reply to: stevieray

Jewish victims of WW2 = muslim terrorists of today.

Mind blowing isn't it.

a reply to: Reverbs

Yes we are. The AUMF from 2001 is the congressional declaration.

Al Awakis death was valid and lawful. He took up arms against the US in a foreign country. The death of his son, while tragic, is a fact of life for these people. This is a segment of people who want nothing more than to kill americans and they dont differentiate between military and civilian targets. You are going to have collateral damage. While the goal is to have none its going to happen.

As for his son, he was not the target of the strike - Ibrahim al-Banna was.

We measure success on how many lives were saved.
They measure success on how many lives were taken.

I also have issues with the way these guys are going about this. I want to see the other side of the full story instead of the picture their lawyer is painting.

originally posted by: stuthealien

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
a reply to: stuthealien

again if you join the military expect to have to kill or get a job at mc donalds flipping burgers or maybe flower arranging

Killing someone or flipping burgers?

I'll flip burgers.......

see i'm fine with your choice but those who join the military and then complain about killing are wrong .
but you have not joined and are serving food which is good as i expect us real men could do with a burger when on leave

Can you kill a human simply because your government tells you to?

yes that is the job requirement i would not hesitate

You sound like the perfect pawn.

*shakes head*

Your kind is the reason we continue perpetual war.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Reverbs

Yes we are. The AUMF from 2001 is the congressional declaration.

Al Awakis death was valid and lawful. He took up arms against the US in a foreign country. The death of his son, while tragic, is a fact of life for these people. This is a segment of people who want nothing more than to kill americans and they dont differentiate between military and civilian targets. You are going to have collateral damage. While the goal is to have none its going to happen.

As for his son, he was not the target of the strike - Ibrahim al-Banna was.

We measure success on how many lives were saved.
They measure success on how many lives were taken.

I also have issues with the way these guys are going about this. I want to see the other side of the full story instead of the picture their lawyer is painting.

And you also have to acknowledge that these guys often grab their kids and wives and use them as meat shields when they're cornered.

So of course the likely suspects always blame the outcome on America.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Reverbs
We measure success on how many lives were saved.
They measure success on how many lives were taken.

Hello, this is doctors without borders speaking. You're full of it.
Seriously, you guys measure success on how many live where saved? seems like a cheap line from a Hollywood propaganda movie.

You should read up on this

www.zerohedge.com... /2015-11-25/drone-whistleblower-pilots-often-high-drugs-refer-kids-fun-size-terrorists

rone operators refer to children as “fun-size terrorists” and liken killing them to “cutting the grass before it grows too long,” said one of the operators, Michael Haas, a former senior airman in the Air Force. Haas also described widespread drug and alcohol abuse, further stating that some operators had flown missions while impaired.

originally posted by: eXia7

originally posted by: stuthealien

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
a reply to: stuthealien

again if you join the military expect to have to kill or get a job at mc donalds flipping burgers or maybe flower arranging

Killing someone or flipping burgers?

I'll flip burgers.......

see i'm fine with your choice but those who join the military and then complain about killing are wrong .
but you have not joined and are serving food which is good as i expect us real men could do with a burger when on leave

Can you kill a human simply because your government tells you to?

yes that is the job requirement i would not hesitate

You sound like the perfect pawn.

*shakes head*

Your kind is the reason we continue perpetual war.

This is not a valid comeback. You can't "defeat" a logical, reasoned argument solely with your private, personal finger wagging and head shaking and snarky dismissiveness.

Well, not in the real world that most adults inhabit. Maybe wherever you're posting from.

originally posted by: Belgianbloke

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Reverbs
We measure success on how many lives were saved.
They measure success on how many lives were taken.

Hello, this is doctors without borders speaking. You're full of it.
Seriously, you guys measure success on how many live where saved? seems like a cheap line from a Hollywood propaganda movie.

You should read up on this

www.zerohedge.com... /2015-11-25/drone-whistleblower-pilots-often-high-drugs-refer-kids-fun-size-terrorists

rone operators refer to children as “fun-size terrorists” and liken killing them to “cutting the grass before it grows too long,” said one of the operators, Michael Haas, a former senior airman in the Air Force. Haas also described widespread drug and alcohol abuse, further stating that some operators had flown missions while impaired.

Well, at least you know an unfounded, silly meme when you find it.

Bring proof, not random "articles" and ridiculous "quotes".

Real Americans in the military and police do try everything possible to minimize death and chaos. But most of them won't choose suicide or deliberately losing to the criminal scum, to avoid it when necessary.

There are a lot of reasons, I suppose, why America's power and influence around the globe is on the wane...not the least of which is Obama's inclination to avoid at almost any cost, America maintaining its leadership role in almost every sphere of activity - including the military - preferring to lead from the back (whatever that means), or just being part of a mushy coalition of this, or a multilateral agreement for that.

What is astonishing, is just how rapidly a healthy slice of the American population is heartily trying to eat itself from within - in this mad rush to be completely tolerant of all things (good or bad), to avoid conflicts with people/nations/cultures who have vowed to destroy American and/or the West in general - and if it does engage militarily, to do so half-heartedly and with the expectation that no collateral damage will ensue.

People like these 4 are symptomatic of this spreading cancer of timidity and growing internal belief that America is always actually the bad-guy - and even when it kills a known and very active terrorist, who has been collaborating with, training, and dispatching other terrorists, to intentionally murder innocent people (like trying to blow up a civilian airliner), that his civil rights were violated!

He was shooting (in various ways) at America. America shot back. Period and end of story.

And those who want to scream murder when a drone fires at a terrorist target, and other people nearby get injured or killed, are just naive beyond description. Part of the reason that American military power - in spite of the fact that it is the most powerful assembly in the history of mankind - has been rendered nearly impotent in recent years, is because of the ridiculous "rules of engagement" that have been put into place, wherein lawyers are literally calling the shots in battle spaces.

I do not (at all) believe that we should go back to the days of Dresdon-style fire bombing of entire cities to win wars...but I do believe in the use of overwhelming force to defeat and destroy an enemy in the minimum possible time (think Desert Shield, followed by Desert Storm) - and that if you have to conquer an entire Country in a war, then you must occupy that Country for at least 2-3 generations, to effect a complete change in culture...turning the enemy into an ally (think Japan and Germany, post WWII).

If Obama had stayed the course in Iraq (doesn't matter if you believe America should not have gone in, in the first place), and had lived up to his "line in the sand" pledge in Syria - ISIS would not be the global threat it is today, and we would not have millions of people "migrating" to Europe and the rest of the West today. Afghanistan, because of Obama's premature withdrawal plans, is headed in the same direction. Iran is growing in power and influence by the day, in large part because of Obama's rush to agreement on the nuclear issue...I could go on and on.

America, and Americans, need to wake up very soon and understand that they are indeed facing very dangerous foes "foreign and domestic". Unless they stiffen their spines and their resolve, America is on a road leading to it becoming a middling at best country on the global map; militarily, politically and economically.

Belgianbloke "IS" Doctors Without Borders....and when he posts "they have spoken" ??

Wow, didn't know that.

a reply to: Belgianbloke

Its zerohedge.. You should research sources before trying to use them considering its a propaganda site. Also yes our goal is to limit civilian casualties. Maybe you can provide us with your sources that support your claim that its not true.

originally posted by: mobiusmale
There are a lot of reasons, I suppose, why America's power and influence around the globe is on the wane...not the least of which is Obama's inclination to avoid at almost any cost, American maintaining its leadership role in almost every sphere of activity - including the military - preferring to lead from the back (whatever that means), or just being part of a mushy coalition of this, or a multilateral agreement for that.

What is astonishing, is just how rapidly a healthy slice of the American population is heartily trying to eat itself from within - in this mad rush to be completely tolerant of all things (good or bad), to avoid conflicts with people/nations/cultures who have vowed to destroy American and/or the West in general - and if it does engage militarily, to do so half-heartedly and with the expectation that no collateral damage will ensue.

People like these 4 are symptomatic of this spreading cancer of timidity and growing internal belief that America is always actually the bad-guy - and even when it kills a known and very active terrorist, who has been collaborating with, training, and dispatching other terrorists, to intentionally murder innocent people (like trying to blow up a civilian airliner), that his civil rights were violated!

He was shooting (in various ways) at America. America shot back. Period and end of story.

And those who want to scream murder when a drone fires at a terrorist target, and other people nearby get injured or killed, are just naive beyond description. Part of the reason that American military power - in spite of the fact that it is the most powerful assembly in the history of mankind - has been rendered nearly impotent in recent years, is because of the ridiculous "rules of engagement" that have been put into place, wherein lawyers are literally calling the shots in battle spaces.

I do not (at all) believe that we should go back to the days of Dresdon-style fire bombing of entire cities to win wars...but I do believe in the use of overwhelming force to defeat and destroy an enemy in the minimum possible time (think Desert Shield, followed by Desert Storm) - and that if you have to conquer an entire Country in a war, then you must occupy that Country for at least 2-3 generations, to effect a complete change in culture...turning the enemy into an ally (think Japan and Germany, post WWII).

If Obama had stayed the course in Iraq (doesn't matter if you believe America should not have gone in, in the first place), and had lived up to his "line in the sand" pledge in Syria - ISIS would not be the global threat it is today, and we would not have millions of people "migrating" to Europe and the rest of the West today. Afghanistan, because of Obama's premature withdrawal plans, is headed in the same direction. Iran is growing in power and influence by the day, in large part because of Obama's rush to agreement on the nuclear issue...I could go on and on.

America, and Americans, need to wake up very soon and understand that they are indeed facing very dangerous foes "foreign and domestic". Unless they stiffen their spines and their resolve, America is on a road leading to it becoming a middling at best country on the global map; militarily, politically and economically.

It's been a 40-year jihad by those who have always hated America, as a constitutional republic with capitalism, unlimited private property, values-based laws, and minimal government.

They lost when they infiltrated post WW1 (thank Hoover), and post WW2 (thank McCarthy / Hoover). But today they've made progress, thanks to the Clintons, Obamas, Kerry, et al.

Demonizing everything America does, 24/ 7/ 365, is how they do it. It will take hail-Mary Pro-America presidency and congress to stop it.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Belgianbloke

Its zerohedge.. You should research sources before trying to use them considering its a propaganda site. Also yes our goal is to limit civilian casualties. Maybe you can provide us with your sources that support your claim that its not true.

It's just childish snark and drivel. You know, when they roll out the non-stop "killers murderers assassins executioners" pap.

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: eXia7

originally posted by: stuthealien

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
a reply to: stuthealien

again if you join the military expect to have to kill or get a job at mc donalds flipping burgers or maybe flower arranging

Killing someone or flipping burgers?

I'll flip burgers.......

see i'm fine with your choice but those who join the military and then complain about killing are wrong .
but you have not joined and are serving food which is good as i expect us real men could do with a burger when on leave

Can you kill a human simply because your government tells you to?

yes that is the job requirement i would not hesitate

You sound like the perfect pawn.

*shakes head*

Your kind is the reason we continue perpetual war.

This is not a valid comeback. You can't "defeat" a logical, reasoned argument solely with your private, personal finger wagging and head shaking and snarky dismissiveness.

Well, not in the real world that most adults inhabit. Maybe wherever you're posting from.

Well that is just like your opinion, man.



not sure if sarcasm... or?

a reply to: stevieray

Thats because the goal is to attack America while ignoring any facts that support America. They claim they abhor violence yet they remain silent when the violence comes from anyone except the US. These people claim US policy is the reason they hate us yet they are clueless as to when it officially started and why.

If they listen to the marine corp hymn they would get a clue -

From the Halls of Montezuma
To the Shores of Tripoli;
We fight our country's battles
In the air, on land and sea;
First to fight for right and freedom
And to keep our honor clean;
We are proud to claim the title
of United States Marine.

Barbary Coast Pirates

We sent an envoy to try and resolve the issue. Because we were the infidels it was a non starter with the pirates and they told us as much.

They bitch out of ignorance and their hatred of the US. When you exercise intelligence towards them they attack you.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: stevieray

Jewish victims of WW2 = muslim terrorists of today.

Mind blowing isn't it.

Well sadly, not any more.

America has raised nearly a whole generation full of environmentally-induced mental illness. It came with helicopter parents, giving them trophies for breathing, announcing that the little snowflakes are "never really wrong or at fault". Bolstered by the "nothing is really wrong or bad" meme.

They think that the world around them is supposed to agree with whatever they utter, whatever completely illogical and dishonest nonsense they throw at everyone.

The idea that anyone could disagree with them or not do whatever they demand, has been weeded out of their existence.

You see the full proof of it on websites across the internet.

originally posted by: Sublimecraft The US government is the world most dangerous terrorist organization

by a country mile.

originally posted by: eXia7

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: eXia7

originally posted by: stuthealien

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
a reply to: stuthealien

again if you join the military expect to have to kill or get a job at mc donalds flipping burgers or maybe flower arranging

Killing someone or flipping burgers?

I'll flip burgers.......

see i'm fine with your choice but those who join the military and then complain about killing are wrong .
but you have not joined and are serving food which is good as i expect us real men could do with a burger when on leave

Can you kill a human simply because your government tells you to?

yes that is the job requirement i would not hesitate

You sound like the perfect pawn.

*shakes head*

Your kind is the reason we continue perpetual war.

This is not a valid comeback. You can't "defeat" a logical, reasoned argument solely with your private, personal finger wagging and head shaking and snarky dismissiveness.

Well, not in the real world that most adults inhabit. Maybe wherever you're posting from.

Well that is just like your opinion, man.



not sure if sarcasm... or?

lol, my post was 100 % serious.

Your reply is right out of Bill & Ted. Thus, I started to think that your whole series of posts was spoofing the liberal mindset.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Well that's easy ain't it, tell its a propaganda site and be done with it.
Try and justify the actions of your country all you want. The american government is the biggest thread to world peace.

Really who the hell are you fooling?