Great Dragon Mother

originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: abeverage

Somebody did make the connection on the first page, it's pretty obvious, i don't suppose there is much behind it's usage other than people tend to like Mermaids, i don't think she has much to do with beverages either though.

Really? Nothing much behind the usage??? That is almost laughable!

I find it very interesting that major corporations use iconography and representations of Deities long since "supposedly" gone.

As far as her not doing much with beverages... You don't think or you don't know? Curious...kinda feels like a type of sacrament if you ask me and the red cups LOL...

a reply to: abeverage

No there's a great deal behind the image in terms of its classical context, i only suggested that when chpsen as a logo from some medieval variant it could just have been chosen as an enchanting logo, it's highly unlikely those who did so would have been aware of it's true associations.

Having said that of course it's possible, i was reading a paper today from 1920 entitled The Goddess of Life and Wisdom which surprised me in terms of how much was realized back then, now there actually is a beverage involved, not directly with the Great Dragon Mother, but with an associated symbol the vine tree and viticulture, it's natural suggestion of serpents and Dragons.

It's another title of Dumuzid, Ama-Gestin-Ana, what is represented is the extension of life force throughout the Cosmos from the Mother Vine, the symbol of this life force is wine, the Dragon Mother Urash of Earth is also an extension of that life force, of course wine can also be a symbol for blood, so there you have the basis for Draconian cults.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

There is always a beverage involved (pun intact and intended).

Coffee, or wine or the waters of life...

I am curious though Kantz why is it so highly unlikely that they would have chosen that image purposefully? I am curious too of why you would believe that some if not all of it's associations are not known currently and never lost to be rediscovered?

We could go into the color red and its symbol of wine and of blood too, but of course it could just be a pretty picture of a once Naughty Mermaid who sells coffee in red "holiday" cups...

a reply to: abeverage

I don't think they would have chosen the image if they knew it related to the Scythian Mother Goddess because she doesn't exactly conform to current establishment alignments, Dragons have been off the menu for quite some time, though the Scythian connection is quite obscure and the paper excellent as it was noted only the classical and Gnostic associations.

It did make the connection of the Mother Vine as being located in the Heavens with regards to the Gilgamesh epic, but whether the author realized that was the symbol for the Celestial transmission of the Dragon cult who knows, they don't understand the doctrine of intervention through medical procedure, the role of birth Goddesses and lots more besides, nobody can be expected to believe in such things.

I'll give you an association of the Scythian Mother Goddess that is not understood, she is the Goddess of the entire alien abduction scenario, strange medical procedure, the doom of the world seen on the big screen, she is within every individual and capable of letting that be known, the fear associated with sleep paralysis, what is played out through symbolic imagery is the events of the past combined with the fears of the present, she never forgets and the planet is her concern, the solution to the worlds problems lies in the medical procedures of the distant past, she likes to remind that's all.

Drink at Starbucks get abducted by aliens, you think they know that...

originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: abeverage

I don't think they would have chosen the image if they knew it related to the Scythian Mother Goddess because she doesn't exactly conform to current establishment alignments

It's from an old woodcut, and it's Norse - www.starbucks.com...

...or has someone already mentioned this? The two-tailed mermaids are sirens:
www.brandautopsy.com...

Also here...
www.slate.com...

...and about a jillion of them show up if you just search images for "woodcut siren" www.bing.com...

a reply to: Byrd

Yes the inspiration was from Medieval Europe, some of those do conform quite closely to the Scythian Goddess. A lot of it could be related to the settlement of Alans and Sarmatians within Western Europe during the Late Roman period.



Does it surprise yourself that the finer points of the Ama-ucumgal-ana epitaph were being discussed and quite well understood in 1920 and earlier as can be seen here, he refers to Tammuz and Ishtar published 1914

originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: Byrd

Yes the inspiration was from Medieval Europe, some of those do conform quite closely to the Scythian Goddess. A lot of it could be related to the settlement of Alans and Sarmatians within Western Europe during the Late Roman period.

I would have to see a better chain of evidence for that to be convincing to me. It seems a better case can be made for tying it to Greco-Roman legends through linguistics and iconography. In particular, the association with nereids and other nature spirits is more convincing because they are more similar to mermaids.

The mermaid is not similar to Babylonian deities (or Egyptian, for that matter.)

Does it surprise yourself that the finer points of the Ama-ucumgal-ana epitaph were being discussed and quite well understood in 1920 and earlier as can be seen here, he refers to Tammuz and Ishtar published 1914

Not at all. HOWEVER, as with Egyptology, Assyriology did not become complete and perfect in 1920. Discoveries since then have changed a number of assumptions and have shown earlier scholarship to be incorrect in many points (Budge being the prime example in Egyptology. I have his dictionary and got tired of updating his definitions after awhile.)

So my question would be what the current understanding is. I note that the author you reference says that this is all conjecture and states "beyond a conjecture we cannot go here" which indicates that nobody is very happy with that "serpent mother" translation.

And I would tend to agree with that, BUT... this is not my field and other than saying "I haven't seen a really convincing tie-in here nor a convincing link with the Scythians"... I can't offer much of a critique, eh?

It is, as with all your threads, quite an interesting exercise and I do love hunting down these things. Even when I disagree, I find I always learn something along the way.

double post