Strange Reaction of the West to ISIS

originally posted by: Willtell
What is baffling me is that imagine if Saddam Hussein, Assad, or Khadafy had done one tenth of what ISIS has done and threatened, and the West who has attacked 3 Muslim countries in 20 years, all of a sudden gets squeamish?

Use your imagination for a second:

What if Assad had done one-tenth of what ISIS is doing?

Murder French and American citizens and gloat over it

How fast would the West attack him?

The Taliban hadn’t at all threatened the West all they did was ask for proof Bin Laden was guilty

The West wasted know time in attacking Afghanistan

Imagine if Khadafy had uttered one hundredth of the threats and calumny that ISIS is and has done

How fast would they have been in Tripoli?

Also we all know that if and when the US ( God forbid) is attacked like the French were how fast will Obama’s no boots on the ground go away?

I say that all the proof, intuitive, logical, and historical precedent, is pointing to the fact that the ISIS episode is a gigantic black operation

Obviously.
US funded the "syrian opposition".
Hmmm, who could that be ? The Free Syrian Army does not exist, so that leaves....ISIS.

Obama is an islamist
Accept it, get over it.
Now get him impeached.

a reply to: Willtell

It is a strange reaction; faced with the most powerful, brutal Muslim terror network known to man, the response has been to dick around with a few airstrikes. But not only that - to INSIST that there wont be an international coalition to oppose them on the ground. WHAT???

There's still no army, or talk of an army, even from Russia.

It could be that they are beginning to recognise the utter futility of waging conventional war against an organisation which has captured the imagination of many of the 2 billion Muslims on the planet, many of whom live, and hide in plain sight, in the West.

Imagine the situation at the outbreak of WW2 if there had been millions of German sympathisers living in every Western country; stopping Hitler would have been just a tad more problematic, would it not?

It's why I keep banging on about mass immigration as a bad idea...a very, very bad idea.

a reply to: M5xaz

nvm

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: superman2012

Cant stop an idea

Of course not completely


But what happen to Nazism?

What happen to the Japanese empire and their emperor they worshiped?

They were militarily beaten

You see, you can beat an idea

Its happened numerous times

What you don't understand is that their using all these flimsy excuses just to allow Isis to remain for a while and cause all this mayhem

If the USA and other western countries stayed out of the ME mess and concentrated on their own internal problems, this thread would never have existed. As it is, they created this mess and if they destroy it (which is impossible, it just changes itself or tweaks an idea a bit) there will be another group ready to fill the void.

originally posted by: superman2012

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: superman2012

Cant stop an idea

Of course not completely


But what happen to Nazism?

What happen to the Japanese empire and their emperor they worshiped?

They were militarily beaten

You see, you can beat an idea

Its happened numerous times

What you don't understand is that their using all these flimsy excuses just to allow Isis to remain for a while and cause all this mayhem

If the USA and other western countries stayed out of the ME mess and concentrated on their own internal problems, this thread would never have existed. As it is, they created this mess and if they destroy it (which is impossible, it just changes itself or tweaks an idea a bit) there will be another group ready to fill the void.

I was reading your post and waiting to hear your proposal as to how to move forward?

(To be clear, there is no easy answer to the question at hand).

a reply to: Sublimecraft

They have not only created an army, but a political and economic system that is pumping out millions in oil every day that Turkey is buying, ISIS has all the weapons we left behind in Iraq (said it was too expensive to ship it back) plus new weapons provided in the last year along with special forces training.

They have extensive supply networks, banking connections, etc and it takes money to run an army of any size. The logistics alone point to massive amounts of outside help. No group of die hard Jihadis could just throw together the huge network they have now. Their support base reaches throughout Muslim (mostly Sunni) society.

I have to wonder what the greater purpose for ISIS is, will they just be the excuse to bring martial law down on all the democracies of the world?
Or could the US, Russia, China and the EU have decided WW3 is the best solution to the sluggish economy. Use the middle east as a meat grinder and reduce the worlds population by a billion or 2?

originally posted by: Willtell
What is baffling me is that imagine if Saddam Hussein, Assad, or Khadafy had done one tenth of what ISIS has done and threatened, and the West who has attacked 3 Muslim countries in 20 years, all of a sudden gets squeamish?

The West has been bombing ISIS for at least a year now.

originally posted by: Willtell
What is baffling me is that imagine if Saddam Hussein, Assad, or Khadafy had done one tenth of what ISIS has done and threatened, and the West who has attacked 3 Muslim countries in 20 years, all of a sudden gets squeamish?

The West has been bombing ISIS for at least a year now.

a reply to: Asktheanimals


They, Isis, may be the enemy the neocons want for their famous “war of civilizations”

They could never really get a viable enemy out of the Arabs.

So they went and destabilized Iraq, Libya, and trying hard to ruin Syria and almost got Egypt and all of these countries get the nutty jihadists to run around and create the potential enemy for their great war they want.

Recall the US was very upset when SISI overthrew the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.

They were certainly planning to super radicalize The Egyptian MB government until SISI overthrew it.

SISI is the counter to ISIS...You get it SISI----ISIS

That might have saved the world from a terrible war.

They would have loved to have a radical government to fight along with ISIS against them in the great war of civilizations they are planning after the 2016 election...

That's why they ruined Libya tried to ruin Egypt and are trying to radicalize Syria with these fake " moderates"

That’s why, according to this theory, ISIS was let to metastasize into this cancer.

The big war is scheduled after 2016 so Obama has to stall and keep ISIS alive until the next president is elected

Either the evil Hillary or one of the lunatic (and their all nuts) Republicans are chosen to have the great war against the jihadi enemy.

Look for the war to be not far after the next president is elected

All they have to do is do another false flag in the US like 911 and the war is going to start.

May God help us

The Royal Marines combined with the US Marine Corp could probably destroy ISIS in a matter of months.

No, let's just bomb the crap out of them and everyone in their vicinity. Great strategy.

originally posted by: eluryh22

originally posted by: superman2012

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: superman2012

Cant stop an idea

Of course not completely


But what happen to Nazism?

What happen to the Japanese empire and their emperor they worshiped?

They were militarily beaten

You see, you can beat an idea

Its happened numerous times

What you don't understand is that their using all these flimsy excuses just to allow Isis to remain for a while and cause all this mayhem

If the USA and other western countries stayed out of the ME mess and concentrated on their own internal problems, this thread would never have existed. As it is, they created this mess and if they destroy it (which is impossible, it just changes itself or tweaks an idea a bit) there will be another group ready to fill the void.

I was reading your post and waiting to hear your proposal as to how to move forward?

(To be clear, there is no easy answer to the question at hand).

Unfortunately, I do not own a time machine. The only solution I would offer is to start to stop. Stop sending "freedom forces" over there. Stop wars for corporate interests. Stay out. Keep out. Focus on getting better.

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes
The Royal Marines combined with the US Marine Corp could probably destroy ISIS in a matter of months.

No, let's just bomb the crap out of them and everyone in their vicinity. Great strategy.

Putin exposed their phony war against ISIS.

....And the last thing they want is those marines cause they would whop the crap out of ISIS


Rememebr Obama sent 50 special ops and trained 5 " Moderates"

That's a mockery


DONT YOU PEOPEL GET IT!

Your being mocked


made fools of

55 troops sent to fight ISSI by Obama

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
a reply to: Sublimecraft

They have not only created an army, but a political and economic system that is pumping out millions in oil every day that Turkey is buying, ISIS has all the weapons we left behind in Iraq (said it was too expensive to ship it back) plus new weapons provided in the last year along with special forces training.

They have extensive supply networks, banking connections, etc and it takes money to run an army of any size. The logistics alone point to massive amounts of outside help. No group of die hard Jihadis could just throw together the huge network they have now. Their support base reaches throughout Muslim (mostly Sunni) society.

The primary support is Iraqi Baathists from Saddam's regime. It isn't just crazed die-hard jihadis, it's long term trained military & intelligence and political people who know how to run a fear-based effective government, because they've done it before. They are the backbone of the state, which makes it different than the equivalent of college age 'activists'.

They were smuggling oil for many years in that region. They know all the tribesmen and what their weak spots are and how to pressure them.

The external support is money from donors in Gulf states (probably not governments) and maybe Turkey.

originally posted by: superman2012

originally posted by: eluryh22

originally posted by: superman2012

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: superman2012

Cant stop an idea

Of course not completely


But what happen to Nazism?

What happen to the Japanese empire and their emperor they worshiped?

They were militarily beaten

You see, you can beat an idea

Its happened numerous times

What you don't understand is that their using all these flimsy excuses just to allow Isis to remain for a while and cause all this mayhem

If the USA and other western countries stayed out of the ME mess and concentrated on their own internal problems, this thread would never have existed. As it is, they created this mess and if they destroy it (which is impossible, it just changes itself or tweaks an idea a bit) there will be another group ready to fill the void.

I was reading your post and waiting to hear your proposal as to how to move forward?

(To be clear, there is no easy answer to the question at hand).

Unfortunately, I do not own a time machine. The only solution I would offer is to start to stop. Stop sending "freedom forces" over there. Stop wars for corporate interests. Stay out. Keep out. Focus on getting better.

Here is my compromise to your proposal...

If... and I do mean IF... the United States (or the West in general) finds it necessary to intervene in X-part of the world... and as easy as it is for me to say this from the safety of my home... lets send in OUR troops with OUR weapons.
This way when the conflict is over... everybody and EVERYTHING comes home.

I'm a bit tired of us "supplying" all sorts of "rebels" with weapons that a few years later turn against us... and end up killing or maiming our brothers/sisters.

Folks read between the lines please

Obama has been ordered to play down the ISIS threat

He’s acting according to a given script

Probably given to him by Valerie Jarrett

Do you really think he can exhibit independent thought?

I’m being facetious here a tad but the man is a living and breathing Manchurian candidate in the flesh…
....Am I really being facetious or is Obama a walking machine man?

Good night

a reply to: Willtell

USA said "bad SISI" for nominally overthrowing a civilian government, and then reinstated full military cooperation like he was the brother of Mubarak.

People have this persistent belief, no a libel, that the USA in any way wants Islamic fundamentalists. There is literally no upside now.

a reply to: InnerPeace2012

If I had the finance, I could get any dogma going big time and cause mayhem. Why because their are millions of people with whacky ideologies that can congeal, given the finance. So Its not Isis ,its the backers, so if we follow the money , and ask ...Who supplies their cash? and for what end?. doesn't take a rocket scientist to work it out.

originally posted by: eluryh22

originally posted by: superman2012

originally posted by: eluryh22

originally posted by: superman2012

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: superman2012

Cant stop an idea

Of course not completely


But what happen to Nazism?

What happen to the Japanese empire and their emperor they worshiped?

They were militarily beaten

You see, you can beat an idea

Its happened numerous times

What you don't understand is that their using all these flimsy excuses just to allow Isis to remain for a while and cause all this mayhem

If the USA and other western countries stayed out of the ME mess and concentrated on their own internal problems, this thread would never have existed. As it is, they created this mess and if they destroy it (which is impossible, it just changes itself or tweaks an idea a bit) there will be another group ready to fill the void.

I was reading your post and waiting to hear your proposal as to how to move forward?

(To be clear, there is no easy answer to the question at hand).

Unfortunately, I do not own a time machine. The only solution I would offer is to start to stop. Stop sending "freedom forces" over there. Stop wars for corporate interests. Stay out. Keep out. Focus on getting better.

Here is my compromise to your proposal...

If... and I do mean IF... the United States (or the West in general) finds it necessary to intervene in X-part of the world... and as easy as it is for me to say this from the safety of my home... lets send in OUR troops with OUR weapons.
This way when the conflict is over... everybody and EVERYTHING comes home.

I'm a bit tired of us "supplying" all sorts of "rebels" with weapons that a few years later turn against us... and end up killing or maiming our brothers/sisters.

Well, as long as we are wishing here, I propose that the "leaders" of the countries that want to go to war, be the first ones in. I am also tired of supplying arms to people that want to kill you. Also, remember how the public "won" the right to donate to the Free Syrian Army? LOL So the public was allowed to donate to them, making a situation worse, funding terrorist organizations that had infiltrated the FSA (or outright were them if I were to put my tinfoil hat on all the way) just because Assad was so bad? Wonder what those idiots that donated would do now?

let me just tell you this:

if there was ever a reason to go to war in the last 20 years, it's because of ISIS!
we have destroyed whole countries over more laughable reasons.

sidenote: why didn't ISIS attack israel yet?

originally posted by: eluryh22
a reply to: Willtell

I apologize in advance if this is straying slightly off topic.... but I find that France's reaction to their current ISIS crisis is symptomatic of the "strange reactions" that the West has these days. For France....

1) Not take an active role in attacking/decimating ISIS as they grew and grew (and quite frankly, advertised their intentions).

2) Let in people in, virtually unchecked, from that "problem" part of the world, despite the will of the majority of the citizenry.

3) Suffer a horrible attack in their capital.

4) As a response to #3, launch the attack that should have taken place as step #1 which may have (possibly) avoided #3

The whole thing is strange.

There's a very clear idea to this.

One thing you'll notice when discussion goes on anywhere online or on tv for that matter, even amongst politicians, is the demeaning rethoric towards people who think that aggressive actions are not the way to go in order to succeed against IS (moot really since we created them).
It's always:
"what are you going to do... sit in a circle and talk with them?"
"it's suicide not to attack them!"
"See what happened... we let them all in and now this is the result!"

1. Be passive, pretend to be confident in your security, pretend to be compassionate and patient

2. Let everyone in... slack the security checks... (teach those you trained how to slip in)

3. Let them perform an attack of grandeur, maximum casualties.

4. Pretend to strong and resolute in your response! (Don't bother talking about how soft we were... the people who were biased against refugees to begin with will do the work for you and shout and scream at those who were genuinely being compassionate. The former will use this situation to show everyone else that compassion is not the way to go, but that war is the only solution.


Alas... war only breeds war. Nature abhores a vacuum, and everytime we bomb "the shet" out of anyone, the vacuum left behind fills with what is worse.
The reason that all the pessimists and the politicians can say that we will indeed see more of this, is because they already know that the actions we perform now will swing back and hit us in the ass.

They all need this opposition, because it helps them to define themselves as human beings, helps them define their own life. If they are not opposed to terrorists like IS, then who are they, what do they stand for.

A life without an enemy makes you begin to look at yourself, and if you are not strong enough, you will begin to treat yourself and your life as your enemy. No one wants that. Too bad they just don't know that it doesn't have to be like that.