Salon.com WORRIED About Hate Speech....and, oh yeah, the Paris Victims

a reply to: ketsuko

But the thing most people don't understand is that if you scratch a socialist, you will find a nationalist tyrant underneath.

As always, spreading ignorance and lies.

That's like saying if you scratch a conservative, you will find a beer-drinking, Nascar-watching yokel that want's to kill every Muslim in the world.

Your hyperbole needs to stop.

a reply to: ketsuko

So, a right wing conservative president would have let Pearl Harbor attack go? I think this is the only generation that expects war to be painless for "me".

originally posted by: madmac5150

originally posted by: Stearman65
BS, enact the draft and go fight unlimited warfare in the Middle East and this would be over in no time. We should either wipe them out or stay home. This limited warfare we have been fighting is a big part of the problem. a reply to: madmac5150

Nuke them til they glow... shoot em' in the dark....

Even Hitler would say you have a mental problem.

No i said fight unlimited warfare. The US has not fought an unlimited war since WWII, and if you will notice, we ain't had much trouble out of Japan, or Germany! Irag, Afganistan, and Vietnam were all political wars for profit.a reply to: Kandinsky

No limited warfare for profit and political gain have caused this. If you were correct we would still have kamakasa bombers hitting our ships. We out and out whipped Japan and Germany and have had no trouble from them.a reply to: ErrorErrorError

Did three years during Desert Shield and Desert Storm, my father flew B-24's and B-29's in WWII, my family has lost and shed blood in every war and conflict since the Revolution, and if we are willing to fight an unlimited war against these jihadist I will gladly sign up again. What is your claim to fame? Or do you just get on line and talk $hit..
a reply to: Shamrock6

a reply to: Stearman65

Seeing as you felt compelled to go on a rant about your family history, I don't think I'm the one who can be fairly accused of going online and acting like a badass, guy.

I'm sure desert storm was tough though.

Ayee.....We need to think scientifically about this.

Human beings are animals. We have amygdala. Were sensitive to views that deride, criticize or debase our most cherished beliefs.

How can people NOT see this? Because we live in an enormously unaware world. Consumerist culture and the stress and speed people operate at evidently leaves them completely unaware of the most important source of knowledge: how they react to the world around them.

Listen: it's not about agreeing with ISIS; its about being COGNIZANT of the effects of our speech and the effects of our approach. Example: the Bush administration, in going to Iraq, chose not to recognize how violence, war, carried out by a foreign party on another civilizations lands would be experienced - not from the cozy position of their first world desks, but from the position of economic hardship, blasts, bullets, and a culture that was already easily primed by Islam to take this sort of "intervention' as an act of war.

PTSD is an INEVITABLE effect enacted by ALL ORGANISMS i.e human animals, when the body is overwhelmed by sounds, images, and feelings arising from a hostile social reality.

Now, what do you think a body energized by adrenaline and cortisol is going to ruminate about? Has anyone here actually noticed the changes that happen to their bodies following a "traumatic" experience? You'll notice that anger flares rather easily (and, from the perspective of evolution, for good reason: threats need to be met with defensive actions i.e. anger). But an unnoticed consequence of activating the HPA axis (stress response system) is that violence begets violence; traumatic feelings engender fantasies of revenge. Revenge killings provoke revenge killings. Consequence: A FEEDBACK LOOP! back and forth, people get mindlessly caught in feedback loops while they unwittingly condition one anothers bodies to perceive the world as dangerous, threatening and unsafe.

The intelligent way to respond to these events is not to withdraw and pretend their isn't a problem; but it's also highly unproductive to throw out terms like "all out war", "world war 3" "merciless". We need to understand how the system of our body's operates - so that we can not only understand ourselves better; but also understand that, however horrifying Islamists may be, they are human beings PRIMED BY an underlying context:

The main background feature, totally unnoticed by most people, is the fact that the Christian west managed to decouple religion from state. Martin Luthers reformation was the necessary "preadaptation" that preceded the ultimate development of science, democracy and the age of the secular

The Islamic world has therefore had to confront its own "culture myth". However, being social-primates, and experiencing themselves very much as "betas" relative to the wests "alpha", they have become more conservative over the years, beginning with the founding of the Muslim Brotherhood in the early 20th century, and now reaching a climax with ISIS

These background factors make Muslims in the Islamic world VULNERABLE to the fantasy being generated by ISIS. The fantasy is this:

We are living in the end times. The west is the "great satan" i.e, is the "great evil", serving the same role that the antichrist serves in Christian mythology.

This is all MYTH. This is all fantasy projected and writ large. It's a MEME, that jumps from biological organism to biological organism, because in each person, in each individual, it serves the same basic function: to make sense of their emotions, fears, shame, and the normal human need to feel pride and value.

If we are to effectively counter ISIS, we MUST NOT feed into their cultural images. It is absolutely LUNACY to talk about world war 3, or crusades, or in any way, whatsoever, to allude to anything that might resonate with their particular fantasy. That is, we must de-escalate by seeking to make clear, to OURSELVES and members of our society, that what is happening in the Muslim world right now is an unfortunate SYSTEM EFFECT that arises from understandable conditions: the ill-preparedness of the Muslim world to adapt to the modern, humanist, secular order. Science, and objective approaches to knowing, have been constrained in that part of the world by Islamic orthodoxy: which, it needs to be emphasized, constrains science because it refuses to acknowledge the "wrongness" of it's epistemological, theological or metaphysical approach to reality.

We MUST recognize how inevitable this all is. We must not dehumanize the other - the Muslim world - and we cannot allow ourselves to succumb to mythological ideas that support THEIR fantasy. We must sanitize this. We must emphasize the necessity of a balanced approach - one that seeks to both neutralize the threat of ISIS, without imagining that the people who subscribe to this viewpoint are fundamentally, and essentially evil. It must be understood that they are shaped by their environments, and by the history of our world.

a reply to: theantediluvian

There's a thread right now, started before this one, where people are promoting population control and genocide because they believe it's reasonable to victimize whole groups of people because of the actions of a few.

Well that was rich.

Except when they are a banker,ceo, or gun owner.

Cause it's PEFECTLY acceptable to blame those entire groups for the actions of the 'few'.

And that is according to 'liberal' correctness.

originally posted by: madmac5150
I posted a thread earlier with a solution to this whole mess. I was censored... So much for "deny ignorance"... wanna bet that I get banned? MUSLIMS ARE THE PROBLEM.

Yes and no.

The caveat is this.

'modern' Islam that the 'terrorist' kind subscribes to is a marriage made in hell of religious and political views.

It's the only form of world politics where it's 'ok' to shoot people for disagreeing.

Islam would be acceptable IF they would do what the west did long ago.

Separate the Church from STATE.

In the same way as non Moslems must acknowledge that the focus on that particular demographic (as perpetrators of terrorism) is unsettling for the demographic concerned, so too must Moslems acknowledge that the correlation of said violence is indeed strong with Islam.

Until both parties can reconcile these realities, the tu quoque mud-slinging will continue.

wow, that's remarkable. looking at the last 4 pages of comments, Salon.com was right.

originally posted by: madmac5150
I actually have two testicles... thanks for asking...

No, you do not have any. You're a raging, whimpering chicken wrapped in the Flag, soaked in spineless drivel using the excuse of "I served, bitches!" to cover your thinly veiled cowardice & inner extremism. You are exactly ZERO PERCENT different from ISIS extremists by professing the solution is to wipe billions of people out. With a nuclear bomb. Congrats, you're the embodiment of the evil you claim to be against.

You don't deserve anything in return for serving. You should have never been allowed to in the first place with that attitude.

originally posted by: odzeandennz
wow, that's remarkable. looking at the last 4 pages of comments, Salon.com was right.

Remarkable ?

Why yes a website dedicated to mocking 'right' wingers clinging to their guns, and religion here in the US. Does and about face, and defends them elsewhere in the world.

Er never mind not remarkable at all.

Just cognitive dissonant.

originally posted by: Stearman65
You do realize that because of people like Christesterone's grandfather and my father you have the right to spew bu//$hit and aid the enemy with your free speech? Political correctness is a big part of what got us to where we are. If it hurts your felling some to hear that a large majority is Islam are a bunch of sick, heartless ba$tards well too bad, because my father bombed Japan d@mm near to the stone age in WWII to insure I had the right to call a spade a spade. Stick your head in the sand if you want, but don't be surprised when some Islam jihadist comes along and rapes the end that is sticking up!
a reply to: theantediluvian

I missed this one. The last card of the veteran with no point.

"I served, my daddy served, my daddy's daddy served, my daddy's daddy's daddy's daddy served, and you should just shut up and thank me since you don't have to speak that damn gook gibberish!"

Such funny peacocking

You do realize that because of people like Christesterone's grandfather and my father you have the right to spew bu//$hit and aid the enemy with your free speech? Political correctness is a big part of what got us to where we are. If it hurts your felling some to hear that a large majority is Islam are a bunch of sick, heartless ba$tards well too bad, because my father bombed Japan d@mm near to the stone age in WWII to insure I had the right to call a spade a spade. Stick your head in the sand if you want, but don't be surprised when some Islam jihadist comes along and rapes the end that is sticking up!

Now that was funny!

And what did the administration do to Japanese Americans ?

Oh yeah rounded them up. Took all their possessions. Then threw them in interment camps!

So far the 'muslims' have lucked out.

Disgusting..only NEO would take the Paris tragedy and use if for his own political use.

NEO and his poor poor gun owners are the real victims here..

originally posted by: lucifershiningone
Disgusting..only NEO would take the Paris tragedy and use if for his own political use.

NEO and his poor poor gun owners are the real victims here..

Totally IGNORED this post I see.

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