Christians and War

Christians do not partake in warfare.

Jesus while on earth, while a Jew, did not help the Jews against Roman subjugation. He never fought. EVER. And he left a model for all of his followers. In fact he said that they were no part of the world ( of wicked humankind).

And left a model for them to follow closely.

Jesus did not fight. He did not take sides.

Any person who claims to be Christian who is involved in any government on the face of the earth in politics (that includes Hitler), who votes for political leaders, who goes to war in national armies (including that of the United States), who bear arms, who carry weapons to defend themselves, ARE NOT Christian.

These are false Christians. All throughout history and today, even on this website, almost all people claiming to be Christian ARE NOT Christian. And they don't even know it.

And if you would tell them what their founder and leader (Jesus Christ) did, they would hate you for it.

That does not make atheists better. They will hate you for what Jesus did. You see, they are both so easily manipulated by Satan. And are both so blind. Exactly like the right/left both sides of the same coin, paradigm of the United States political spectrum.

What is the conspiracy?

Well, just the fact that there are so many sects of Christendom all vying to be called "Christian" while, all of them going against Christ. And while atheists can see the hypocrisy, it is very very hard for any "false Christian" to see through the fetters over their eyes.

You seem to forget about when he ran the moneychangers (bankers) out of the temple with a whip, overturning all their tables. I agree with you on all your other points.

a reply to: JackReyes

I have always wondered how Christians who join the military reconcile warfare with their religion.

It's sooooo last testament.

originally posted by: occrest
You seem to forget about when he ran the moneychangers (bankers) out of the temple with a whip, overturning all their tables. I agree with you on all your other points.

No, that was not taking political sides at all.

Jesus ran them out because they were making the house of his Father, a house of robbers. And he had a zeal for Jehovah's house. It had nothing to do with any political party. He just loved his Father's house too much to see people defiling it, and could not control himself.

So again, when he returns, he will NOT be able to control his rage against hypocritical religion who claims to represent his Father, and makes a mockery of his name, and makes money off of it.

You are basing all of your "ideals" on the book the Roman Catholic Church gave you. Jesus not only became angry, he killed. Christians have been raging war since the faiths inception and the majority of time it is for the greed or benefit of the church more than an aid to mankind.

I am a devout man of faith but that faith does not come without my own intelligent interpretation. I will not let a book dictate, settle on and prescribe to me, my blind target on what my faith is or how I choose to practice it.

originally posted by: Abysha
a reply to: JackReyes

I have always wondered how Christians who join the military reconcile warfare with their religion.

It's sooooo last testament.

There is a difference.

Before Christ Jehovah God chose a natural nation of people, the Israelites, or later known as Jews, as his people. And he used them to represent his throne on earth.

Later, when Jesus came and died, Jehovah God got rid of the Jewish system of things, which was no longer needed, and because they rejected his son as the Messiah, and he accepted people of all nations.

Before anyone was still accepted, but they had to worship Jehovah at his temple in Jerusalem. Afterwards, under Christ, all mankind was accepted no matter where they were, and the natural nation of Israel was rejected.

So naturally, Christians could not fight amongst each other, no matter what their nationality. They did not need to become proselytes of Judaism. But they did need to keep strict neutrality as to the wars of the nations.

a reply to: Helious

Interpretation belongs to God. If you think you can rely upon yourself then left his own word rebuke you:

(Proverbs 3:5-7) 5 Trust in Jehovah with all your heart, And do not rely on your own understanding.  6 In all your ways take notice of him, And he will make your paths straight.  7 Do not become wise in your own eyes. Fear Jehovah and turn away from bad.

“In truth,there was only one christian and he died on the cross.” Friedrich Nietzsche

But it is a really interesting though, was there ever a ''true'' Christian?

Even Saints fought wars, murdered or sinned in one or another way.
And lets not talk about priests.
The disturbing part is that if you repent and accept Christ, you are saved, according to Christianity

So yes in the above sense Christians and war goes together, and fits very well actually if we look at the past.

Everywhere there is a loophole to exploit, in order to achieve your goals, even in religion

originally posted by: JackReyes
a reply to: Helious

Interpretation belongs to God. If you think you can rely upon yourself then left his own word rebuke you:

(Proverbs 3:5-7) 5 Trust in Jehovah with all your heart, And do not rely on your own understanding.  6 In all your ways take notice of him, And he will make your paths straight.  7 Do not become wise in your own eyes. Fear Jehovah and turn away from bad.

Except when the words of "God" and the books that describe how he spoke and in what manner have been manipulated not by God himself but by an organization that has been proven through out history, time and time again to be an inept and textbook example of a an imperfect vehicle of religion on a global scale.

a reply to: Helious

So you belie a disbelief in God's word, but in your own, or perhaps other people.

Show your proof that your words, or that of other men are better than God's word, and perhaps it will be worth listening to.

a reply to: Dr1Akula

It may appear that way Dr Akula. But not so. There have always been true Christians.

And Jesus did not die on the cross, it was a torture stake.

originally posted by: JackReyes
a reply to: Helious

So you belie a disbelief in God's word, but in your own, or perhaps other people.

Show your proof that your words, or that of other men are better than God's word, and perhaps it will be worth listening to.

What God says, is what he says to each individual that believes in him. If you have to put faith in a book to hear his words then you don't share my faith.

I put no stock in words, books or the likes of which men had a hand crafting. I see no farther than what I can see and feel for myself and make no other claim than what is real to me, is real to me.

a reply to: Helious

Then you have already judged yourself. For God himself shows us that his word can read thoughts and intentions of the heart, and is sharper than any two-edged sword:

(Hebrews 4:12) For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints from the marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.

So when you reject his word, you reject what he is telling you. You are doing what Satan wants you to. He tells you to trust your heart. And yet God tells you that your heart is the most perfidious, treacherous part of your body:

(Jeremiah 17:9) . . .The heart is more treacherous than anything else and is desperate. Who can know it?

You claim you can trust your heart, while God tells you you cannot:

(Proverbs 3:5) Trust in Jehovah with all your heart, And do not rely on your own understanding.


You may seem wise in your own eyes but remember:

(Proverbs 30:12) There is a generation that is pure in its own eyes But has not been cleansed from its filth.

Jesus is a very active ingredient in the war preceding judgment day in revelation. But mostly in judgment day, which qualifies less as war and more as a single handed xenocide.

a reply to: JackReyes
A Christian calling out other Christians as not Christian. Imagine that. Who'd have thunk it?

That does not make atheists better. They will hate you for what Jesus did. You see, they are both so easily manipulated by Satan. And are both so blind. Exactly like the right/left both sides of the same coin, paradigm of the United States political spectrum.

I would submit that you are no less blind and deceived than those you judge. Remove the log from your own eye, then you can see clearly to remove the splinter in your brothers and sisters eyes.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
Jesus is a very active ingredient in the war preceding judgment day in revelation. But mostly in judgment day, which qualifies less as war and more as a single handed xenocide.

Jesus will indeed ride forth during judgement day. Nowhere in Scripture are Christians told they are any part of it, those who are on earth.

And he will indeed set matters straight among many nations, and execute righteousness among the nations. But again, nowhere are any humans told they are to take part in the judgement.

a reply to: Klassified

Just submitting the claim means nothing. Perhaps point out where the message of God's word is wrong. That would be something.

originally posted by: JackReyes
Before anyone was still accepted, but they had to worship Jehovah at his temple in Jerusalem. Afterwards, under Christ, all mankind was accepted no matter where they were, and the natural nation of Israel was rejected.

So naturally, Christians could not fight amongst each other, no matter what their nationality. They did not need to become proselytes of Judaism. But they did need to keep strict neutrality as to the wars of the nations.

Exactly which suspiciously makes Christianity look like a propaganda of Romans, to counter the revolutionists, by converting them to a new and different Judaic religion which made them pacifists and gave them benefits and rights inside the Roman Empire instead of being prosecuted Messianic Jews.
That's when the Roman Imperial Cult was transformed into the Roman Church of Christ.

Control of the region, power and political tactics was what gave birth to the Roman Christianity.
And it continues it's purpose until today.

I am not saying that this was the real message of Jesus, or the bible.
But how it was used until now to create the dogma, and how it was spread around the globe.

If it wasn't propagated by the roman Emperors and they didn't destroyed and converted the pagan world,
and without Inquisition and the crusades and the suppression of the dark ages...
... there wouldn't exist so many Christians today. They might didn't even existed at all!

So claiming that, a religion which was spread and known to us today through wars, torture and blood,
Shouldn't be about wars, torture and blood is somehow an oxymoron,
Not to it's content but to it's history.

a reply to: Dr1Akula

Except for the fact that the Romans hated the Christians for refusing to celebrate their holidays and participating in their wars.

Read any history and you knew this. There was no Roman officer or solider who converted to Christianity who could remain in the army. And Christians were viciously persecuted by the Romans and thrown into their Gladiatorial combats, and were eaten by lions in front of shrieking crowds of pagan Romans, because of their stance of strict Christian neutrality.

Your argument belies a fundamental lack of knowledge of Christian history.

a reply to: JackReyes

You wrote QUOTE Christians do not partake in warfare. Jesus while on earth, while a Jew, did not help the Jews against Roman subjugation. He never fought. EVER. And he left a model for all of his followers. In fact he said that they were no part of the world ( of wicked humankind)...Jesus did not fight. He did not take sides." UNQUOTE

If what you say is true then riddle me this: If R, Yehoshua was so 'peaceful' then why are so many embarrassing Greek words placed into his mouth in the Canonical council approved Greel Gospels e.g.

Matthew 10:34 / Luke 12:51

'The Bar Enasha ('son of man') was not sent to bring peace upon the land (or Yisro'el) but a Sword; not harmony but division....'

Matthew 11:12 / Luke 16:16

'And from the time John the Baptist began preaching until now, the Kingdom of God/Heaven has endured violent force and violent people now are entering into it...'

Luke 22:35-38

'And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.

Then said he unto them, But now, he that has a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his outer garment, and buy one....and they said, Rabbi, behold, here are two swords....'

Mark 14:47 / Luke 22:50 / John 18:10 / Matthew 26:51

'When Jesus’ followers saw what was going to happen, they said, “Lord, should we strike with our swords?” [And he answered Thou hast spoken well] Then immediately one of the disciples drew his sword and struck the servant of the high priest, severing his right ear...."

I could give more evidence within the council approved Greek gospels of the Zealot Tendenz of R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean ('Jesus') but this should be enough to show you that the man was far from a pacifist, but closer to what we today would call a revolutionary terrorist who resorted to terrorist activities to gain his end e.g. the so called Cleansing of the Temple which was nothing short of a riot in the Court of the Gentiles in the Temple during a feast...

See John 2:15 / Matthew 21:12 / Mark 11:15 / Luke 19:45

' and ho Iesous made a whip from ropes and chased the money changeres out of the Temple precincts and drove out the sheep and cattle gathered there and scattered the money changers' coins all over the floor, and turned over their tables...
saying, Take these things away from here....'

The fact that all four canonical council approved Greek gospels record the riot in the Temple suggests that there probably was an historical underpinning to the gospel narratives...

Either way, the picture of a nice Rebbe telling harmless little parables to a few friends would hardly have gotten the man strung up on a Roman crux...

Re-visit the texts of the Greek Gospels in a 'close reading' fashion, then see if you can pick up a copy of Reza Aslan's new book 'ZEALOT: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth' available on Amazon.com - In it, Dr Aslan vividly relates what political turbulence existed in early 1st century Palestine before the 1st Failed Jewish War against Rome in c. 66 - 73 CE in a novelistic page turning fashion (his sources are listed in the back of the book).

The fact that several of his closest disciples were given Zealot names ("sons of Thunder". 'the Rock', Simon the Zealot (i.e. haQana) etc.) adds credence to Aslan's book...