Black/Urban English? Is the inability to speak correctly contributeing to unemployment?

originally posted by: odzeandennz

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: odzeandennz

If someone is QUALIFIED for a position, but my determination is based on race, creed, sexual orientation, or 'slang' im in the wrong; i think there is a law against that.

There is no law in the UK denying a application to someone who speaks "slang" IE lacks communication skills.

Especially when communication skills are a vital and core part of the job.

In fact I have even given that as a reason to them.

lack of comm skills is subjective. lack of professional communication skills isnt.

However, since you put forth professional comm skills are your core values and they didnt try to speak professionally (which you forgot to mention in the OP), then you were right to bin the applications.

any further argument is impasse.

Lack of communication skills is usually apparent in the job application paperwork.

If I get a cover letter with bad grammar or spelling errors I don't usually give the applicant my time or attention.

If the applicant didn't respect the job enough to run their cover letter through spell check for 30 seconds, why should I waste any of my time on them?

I'd guess I reject about 40% of applicants based on this alone. If you're not the sort of person who wants to take care in your first impression, then you're probably not right for our organization.

Top Tip from a Recruiter for a major company - Don't have spelling mistakes on your resume !

Also, remember to put the name of the organization you're applying to instead of "Insert company name here". I know most people use form letters for their applications, but if you haven't at least attempted to tailor it to the job you're applying for, I won't waste any of my time on you when I have dozens of other applicants to go through.

Bottom line - don't give me even the slightest reason to reject you, because I will.

ok, so i dont know the process in the UK, but here, as far as i know:

1) an applicant applies by submitting a resume (CV)
2)employer reviews it and determines if they are a potential candidate
3)email or phone correspondence to set up an interview
4)interview time.
-----
this is where my conflict starts, at 5...

what i gathered so far: OP reviewed CV of candidate because they seem to fit the job description; op requested for face to face interview; OP doesnt like the way candidate speaks; OP bins applicant.

so where would it stop then, what if OP doesnt like applicant's haircut, or religious preferences or applicant is of certain sexual orientation during face to face interview. what would this be called then?

--remember OP said decision is made during the face to face, not because application or CV had slang, but because of the way they talked. what if OP had issues with applicants race, or country of origin, would it then be discriminatory?

before i get persecuted more, what am i missing here?
this is just a lesser extreme than what would outrage most of you in another thread!
there is a bigger underlying connotation then just slang here. its incidental that the reason for not hiring is just 'slang' it could have been another personal indifference.

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
I wanted to chime in and agree with the OP on this but I also have a unique perspective on the english language because of where I'm from.
I live in a city in the north east of Scotland and we have a local language called Doric, this an old colloquial language that has been used in the local area for centuries.
So we use Doric in our everyday lives when speaking to locals or people who have lived here for a while and know the language.
But while Doric is used as common as English, in a professional environment you can't operate in the same way, as you will be dealing with people who don't speak it.
The problem is that some members of our society only really know Doric much in the same way the OP describes street slang.
This brings the same problems the OP described where CV's and speech restrict their ability to gain certain types of employment. In the same way if you are in the company of these people if you speak proper English it's seen as weak sauce.
The problem isn't racial, it's educational as I work with a lot of Africans daily and their grasp of the English language is impeccable. In fact more often than not they are better educated in the language than most of the locals.

I seen someone talking about Glaswegians and them mentioning the sentence 'I dinnae ken', that's doric not weegie.

Common sayings in doric are 'Fit Like?' Which translates as 'What like?' As in 'How are you?' A common response would be 'Nae bad, chavin awa, ye ken fit like.' This translates to something like 'Not bad, working away, you know what it's like'.

Doric Article

I made the same point earlier. Almost every region has its own local vernacular. In a place like South Florida where you have so many people from so many different places, communication can sometimes become comical.

My best friend speaks 6 Asian languages and does telephone translations into English. This a great career opportunity, but because of the tonal skills required to speak so many dialects, her English remains heavily accented, which made for some very interesting conversations, when we first became friends.

I used to fall in the floor crying, when my children were small and my friend would try to teach my little one how to pronounce something in English. But I guess I would have been just as funny if I tried to teach a Chinese child how to say something in Mandarin. My Mandarin is awful by the way. At least my friend keeps telling me it is, but I can make myself understood, even if comical.

The OP said he isn't addressing the fact that people from other countries with poor English skills may be just as problematic at this time. He would like to keep the conservation focused on "Black/Urban English? Is the inability to speak correctly contributeing to unemployment?", so you see, our posts are irrelevant.

a reply to: FurvusRexCaeli
Excusing the avoidance of the creation of new neural pathways in an Age where Alzheimer's will run rampant, is the very thing dumbed down people do.

Just sayin'...

a reply to: odzeandennz

Do the other things you mention affect communication? The story I related earlier demonstrates the unlearning of communication skills leading to a life in which problems occur due to not being understood. Inability to communicate is the issue, not appearance, religion or any other superficial aspect.

originally posted by: babybunnies

originally posted by: odzeandennz

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: odzeandennz
If someone is QUALIFIED for a position, but my determination is based on race, creed, sexual orientation, or 'slang' im in the wrong; i think there is a law against that.

There is no law in the UK denying a application to someone who speaks "slang" IE lacks communication skills.

Especially when communication skills are a vital and core part of the job.

In fact I have even given that as a reason to them.

lack of comm skills is subjective. lack of professional communication skills isnt.

However, since you put forth professional comm skills are your core values and they didnt try to speak professionally (which you forgot to mention in the OP), then you were right to bin the applications.

any further argument is impasse.

Lack of communication skills is usually apparent in the job application paperwork.

If I get a cover letter with bad grammar or spelling errors I don't usually give the applicant my time or attention.

If the applicant didn't respect the job enough to run their cover letter through spell check for 30 seconds, why should I waste any of my time on them?

I'd guess I reject about 40% of applicants based on this alone. If you're not the sort of person who wants to take care in your first impression, then you're probably not right for our organization.

Top Tip from a Recruiter for a major company - Don't have spelling mistakes on your resume !

Also, remember to put the name of the organization you're applying to instead of "Insert company name here". I know most people use form letters for their applications, but if you haven't at least attempted to tailor it to the job you're applying for, I won't waste any of my time on you when I have dozens of other applicants to go through.

Bottom line - don't give me even the slightest reason to reject you, because I will.

I find all this a bit funny.

I have been in front and behind the desk a many of times in the last 40 years, and I can attest to the fact, that the the reason for this nit picking bull crap, is because you have 20+ times more applicants than you have jobs.

When the shoe is on the other foot and you have more jobs than people to fill them, you take what you can get. Even if that means that you have to learn to speak Ebonics or any other language for that manner.

I work with a large number of people that I have to struggle to understand when they speak, because of heavy accents, patois, broken English, and with some that speak little or no English at all. They are hired because they can get them for cheap, and they keep their hours just low enough, that they don't have to pay them benefits, though they work them off the clock well over 8 hours a day.

Demanding all the applicants seeking hire are stellar, changes significantly when you are losing your customer base because you don't have enough to staff to keep your business afloat. I am sure you will lower your present standards and be willing to compromise, if that is what it takes to keep the business going.

a reply to: crazyewok

Im talking barely legible

Come on, give us a few examples. Don't keep all the good stuff to yourself.

a reply to: Astyanax

It would be interesting to hear the urban slang equivalent of "My friend slipped while fixing the roof and is hanging by his fingertips, I need a ladder quickly before he loses his grip." Could be awkward if there was a problem understanding the slang.

originally posted by: grainofsand
On a related note, people from Glasgow who live years in England and refuse to use correct English words in place of their strong dialect and accent.

When I moved to England aged 16 there were many words I had to repeat because people failed to understand my strong Welsh accent/dialect. I started saying them the 'English' way first time and it became natural.
It is lazy and/or stubborn, and I defy anyone who says Glasgow folk are actually unable to say 'I don't know...' instead of 'I dinnae ken...' bull#.

I was back in Wales at the weekend and lot's of Welsh came out of my mouth, but it is not hard to use correct English when back in England.
Winds me right up, argh, /rant

Glaswegians dont use the term "I Dinnea ken" That would be East lothian east coast speak. Maybe you dont know anyone from Glasgow or Scotland for that matter. ?

ps. Glaswegian for I dont know would be " i dont know". sounding to you like "Ah dont know". Dinnea Ken,???? people have been stabbed for less in Glasgow.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: crazyewok
I run a small buisness in the south London area. And I have noticed the extreme lack of communication skills among the black community.

I am binning around 8 out of 10 black applicants applications after speaking to them, not due to them being black, but there inability to string a coherent sentence together. In fact I have noticed this "urban" talk in some white candidates too, though not to the same extent, and resulting in equal binned applications.

Coming from the USA...What does "Binning" mean?

I can perhaps assist, it means to place into a waste bin. I guess in the USA you may have said 'I am trashing'

To place them in the "Circular File" is what I hear most often.

So, if you said 'I circular filed it' I wouldn't know what you are talking about either, but fairly sure the word 'bin' did make it across the Atlantic.

Of course I know "Bin" as in "trash bin"...I know it as a noun: Person, place or thing...but have never heard it used as verb..."Binning"?

To me it sounds as strange as "desking" ...

Hot-desking is a verb and it's what you do if you rely on them for somewhere to sit while in an office where you have no permanent space, so yes, it probably does sound odd when you first hear it.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

I once said to a man from Dundee, "I don't understand some of the people from Dundee." He said "I don't understand some of the people from Dundee, and I was born there!"

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: crazyewok

Im talking barely legible

Come on, give us a few examples. Don't keep all the good stuff to yourself.

I give you two examples of how dialect and slang cause communication problems. I chose one from black and one from white ethnicity. Of course, both are very thick/heavy to play up the comedic aspects of miscommunication. But that doesn't change the fact jive was an argot composed of heavy slang and Cajun is a dialect heavily influenced by Creole French that bears some resemblance to urban dialects with a lot of French influence and some French expressions added in. When spoken natively, Cajun is almost indecipherable to someone who speaks regular English.

I'd post something but i'm on the line with some pigmy who can't speak english. 'rolls eyes'...

originally posted by: Kester
a reply to: Soloprotocol

I once said to a man from Dundee, "I don't understand some of the people from Dundee." He said "I don't understand some of the people from Dundee, and I was born there!"

One day at work a lorry driver fae aebuurrrdeen arrived at the factory....furry Boots he said; Naw mate, just yer bog standard steel toe cap riggers, i replied;...No, from where you about's, he replied back;..


From lands end top John O Groats people speak in strange tongues at times.

Regional slang leads to accents, accents lead to dialects, dialects lead to a new language. I am sure the Germanic people had a similar view to English. We do, after all speak a Germanic Language.

That said, next to a neck tattoo, speaking in this fashion is one of the quickest routes to a job that doesn't require paying taxes.

a reply to: Leonidas

At the rate things are going, we'll all be learning Chinese as the new language of business soon anyhow.

And then we'll fondly reminisce about how much easier it was to learn English.

Chinese is a language where you have memorize every character and it is as much tonal as it is grammatical. It is magnitudes again more difficult to learn.

This in my opinion is a race bate thread talking about African Americans. . . .

We could say the same for every race in America couldnt we?

Latino, Asian, European, or Americans may come up with language which is different than what is commonly seen across America.

Different people who live in different communities have different ways of speaking.
Does that mean we need a thread to race bait and talk about how various ethnicities speak?

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

And if you had read the thread, you would know that we have been discussing people of all different ethnicities who have their own dialects, not just urban dialect.

We've talked about Welsh, Cajun, country, etc. Did you read the thread or post this based solely on the OP?