Sobering documentary of the Muslim problem in Europe: Paris, Sweden, no-go zones

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a reply to: FlySolo

This video didn't show anything but a ghetto. Ghettos are not unique to Muslims or Europe.

As a middle-aged white male there are many palaces in the US that I wouldn't go to without being accompanied by a black male from the neighborhood. The same can be said for a few Hispanic areas as well.

The problem sounds like drugs and gangs, and an inability to communicate with one another because of a language barrier.

And before I get labeled a racist I don't just have "black friends", my daughter is mixed. And in my last job my drinking buddy every other Friday was a Muslim from Iran.

Maybe some of you have lived a more sheltered middle class life then me. I have seen the same problems here in the US. And it has nothing to do with religion.

If you want to see a real No-Go area, come to Camden New Jersey, or certain neighborhoods in North Philadelphia here in the United States - the police don't even go into some neighborhoods of the aforementioned cities without an extremely heavy show of force - In fact, there are countless neighborhoods across the globe that if you enter without belonging, you risk violence against your person.

There are also upper class neighborhoods that keep outsiders out in more passive aggressive ways through police intervention or armed guards. You can't even get near Star Island in Miami, FL, or the neighborhoods of the Intracoastal Waterway in Ft Lauderdale FL if you don't belong, unless you want to try to get through heavily armed guards.

a reply to: FlySolo

I am Clear.

a reply to: Isurrender73

Then I've got a hundred more to show you. Look, there's definitely an integration problem going on and it's not going away. There's an attitude especially from new comers and young males and we can't compare apples to oranges. If you are genuinely interested in seeing both sides of the debate to make an informed decision then watch this one. It's an unbiased clear perspective of the integration policy in Germany. As a Canadian, I find the ending a bit of a relief after what I had just watched and learned.

If any of you are just understanding what this migrant crisis is and are having a hard time making decisions based on the contentious matter of being labeled a xenophobe, getting as much information as you can is the only way to overcome feelings of cognitive dissonance. What better way than to get that information from the source?

a reply to: Sremmos80

what makes your link any more credible?. If Islam (submission to god) was so benign Imans would constantly be condeming acts of violence and rape. The silence is deafening

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

and you conviniently didnt address LesMis Islamic quote turning it around to say you are being attacked....what a joke

There is a question here: does the average Muslim have a belief system that is different than that of the west? This could be a problem if they do not believe in things like women's rights, for example. Do they think other people are infidels? It would be silly to ignore this just to be P.C.

The second question: do Muslims want to push their religion onto the countries they are migrating to? If the answer to this is yes, then that is not something to be ignored, even if it is more P.C. to do so - this is a real issue.

The answers to these questions could go either way. Maybe the average Muslim embraces other people and treats his wife as an equal. Maybe Muslims are content with controlling themselves inside of their own mosques and feel no need to encroach on others beliefs.

I would like to point out a fact or two here...

In the Western world, the only people actually speaking Arabic (and look Arab) are Israelis. Therefore, none other than Israelis (and other Muslims) have the capability to genuinely interview Muslims in their own language.

Secondly, regarding to whether it was predetermined or not:
1. No-go zones and Muslim ghettos are real.
2. Crime, unemployment and rape rates are real.
3. The expansion of Muslim communities in places like Malmo and Marseille are real.

Like the video or not, the truth remains the truth.

a reply to: FlySolo

I think Canada has a good integration program going. Why aren't more countries doing what Canada is doing? Even Germany is requiring they learn German. From the first video compared to this one it appears Switzerland has a lot to learn.

The saddest thing I see is treatment of women. The Quran makes women equal to men in nearly everything except inheritance.

Both the Quran and bible say in marriage final decisions ultimately depends on the male, if the husband and wives disagree, the husband has to make the decision.

Women are supposed to dress modestly and not show any part of their breasts. The head covering and full length dresses are found in the Hadith and are not part of the Quran.
submission.org...
misconceptions-about-islam.com...

The main problem with Islam is the Hadith. The Hadith was written to control people and does not reflect the Quran or Mohammed.,

I think the women will be the integrating factor. They will learn what equality means and understand that their are different opinions on what the Quran says about women's rights and clothing. The women will force thier husbands do give them the equality that they deserve. This mentality will then be passed onto the children.

It might take a generation and in some families 2 generations, but male superiority and Sharia law will die in the western world IMO.

originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Oh my mistake, you called me a hater right out the gate. Now you're calling me a habitual liar? Hey listen dude, I haven't lied about anything here at ATS since I became a member. Now, you better come up with something quick to prove otherwise or I call bs on you, your stance, your attitude and your facts. All bs. Show me what makes me a habitual liar?

Really? In this very thread you said I labeled critics as racists, which I never did. That's #1.

Then you said "out the gate" that I called you a "liar", which isn't true. Anyone can check my first post to see that I never mentioned that word or its derivatives about you until after incident #1. That's #2.

Then you just typed that I supposedly called you a "hater", which isn't true either. Show me the post where I labeled you a "hater". You can't because it doesn't exist. I don't even use like using that word because it's lame. So yes, that makes #3.

Then you said in the same post that you "haven't lied about anything here at ATS since I became a member", even though you lied twice before about me in this very thread & once more in the very same post. That's #4. The fact that you type things that aren't true without even noticing it proves my point that it's a habit.

As For The Topic:I'll take it that this thread has run its course. Enough people have pointed out the "no go zone" crap in the OP is not only false, but has been debunked right here on ATS in a previous thread. So there's really nothing left for me to say on this topic.

a reply to: FlySolo

I was a single parent and raised three kids. Now and then, when they were young, I would give them a little tongue in cheek admonition. I would say 'stay away from religious people'. Back then the religious people they were likely to come across where we lived were, Mormons, Christians and Jehovah's Witnesses. I say 'tongue in cheek' but there was a serious side to it, I didn't want my children to be influenced by any of that nonsense. Fortunately those aforementioned religions are in decline (at least where I live) but now I see the city and country being slowly poisoned by the spread of another religion. I don't know what the answer to this is. My instinct tells me that all that nonsense should be banned but I can imagine the reaction and see all the repercussions that would arise from such actions. There is nothing more violent than a religious person when their beliefs are challenged. Perhaps a nationwide psychological approach to the problem of religious beliefs is the way to go. I wonder how those Bishops in the House of Lords would respond to that.

Hey just wanted to point out that the documentary isn't actually in Arabic. I don't know what language that is however most likely Urdu.

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
a reply to: Bluesma

This link is in french, and explains that fox news made up a story about parts in paris that was dangerous for non muslims, they debunk it, it was already posted on ats.

I post the link but it sends you to a different article, anybody know how to add a link.



www.francetvinfo.fr... n-paris_795721.html

I couldn't find what you tried to link to. But I suspect it is one in which the "debunking" was about these "no-go" zones not actually being officially labelled "no-go". No-go is an english term- it is the term the american media chose to use to refer to them.

In French, they are called "Zones Urbaines Sensibles".

What was also "debunked" was the claim that the government has written them off or abandoned them, officially giving the power to the extremist and criminal gangs.
Officially, the government focuses on them as areas in need of higher priority in terms of urban renewal and social work.

In the documentary, you see politician being interviewed about this. After he describes the conflicts in there, the reporter asks if the conflict is one of religious or cultural conflict, and he does not want to answer. Eventually he explains "I can't say that, you see.... if I do, I put up an obstacles to dialogue which we hope to create." (not the exact quote, trying to get as close as I can remember).

Because they haven't "written off" these people and this part of the population, they are refusing to openly pinpoint differences that are obstacles. It is hard to explain this, as it is sourced in the french style of focus upon rhetoric.
It's kind of in line with the american focus upon not saying whether someone is black.... to actually articulate that difference, is to acknowledge it and then you can be accused of prejudice.

But listen to the arabs themselves speak in this documentary- they do not hesitate to acknowledge the difference- they state firmly that they do not want to integrate, they do not want to live amongst the people of their new country.
One young woman living in Sweden is asked "Do you have a swedish identity card?"
She replies, yes, but I do not recognize it. (meaning, I do not honor it as having any validity, I do not use it, I do not acknowledge the laws of this country.)

The french governments attitude about this, from my point of view, is somewhat sticking it's head in the sand. Let's not admit what is going on.... lets see if we can't find more subtle ways of calming the conflict. Try to remain "nice", try to appease a bit, let's try to give them better free housing, more benefits, things that would maybe entice them to want to be part of our society. Lets continue to claim they are not different than us, and that will maybe help them relax and feel safe enough to come to some peaceful cohabitation with us.

This approach is failing.

But anyway, what is debunked and not has to be carefully weeded through with discernment. There are truths and exaggerations mixed together.

When going to bed last night, it hit me that I tend to automatically take certain things with a grain of salt, whereas maybe that is not the same for all, which can give a report that I see as factual, a very unrealistic edge to another.

For example, when young arabs from these areas are interviewed, they brag about how they control the country, they have taken over the country, they are so dangerous and scary...
Now, that is typical boasting that young kids do, to sound and feel powerful. I recognized that right away and didn't take it literally.

On the other hand, if you listen to what the leaders of the extremist movements proclaim their goals to be, in installing sharia law throughout the country and destroying "evil democracy" in the host country,
and see the efforts they are making to convince the other arabs to get on board with this goal,
then bring that back the kids that were boasting; the ones that want and desire to feel so powerful and see the natives as the ones to over come....

Then you can see a bit how such extremist leaders, though they are far from representing all of Islam, find themselves within an ideal place and situation for recruitment. They have troubled third and fourth generation young people, frustrated by their conditioned refusal to integrate or identify with the culture their parents or grandparents settled in, and who want to find a way to big and scary and victorious over the evil natives. These extremists promise them exactly that.

a reply to: midicon

"Stay away from religious people..."

Quite possibly the best advice I have heard on ATS this week.

originally posted by: grandmakdw

I lived in Germany 8 years ago for three years
near the French border.

There was a problem at that time with
Muslim no-go zones. It was in the news
at the time and I had heard about the
zones in the local news before we
ever came back from the US.

The no-go Muslim zones ruled by
Shariah law have been in existence
for well over 8 years, long before
the "immigration problem" .

People in France and Germany
were discussing 8 years ago if
this was healthy for the country or not.

Actually these no-go zones are nothing new
where Muslim immigrants settled in Europe.
What they mean by no-go is that
IF you go into them you are expected to
abide by Shariah law. If you don't follow
Shariah, don't go there or you risk
being assaulted for not following Shariah.

No-go doesn't mean non-Muslims are forbidden
to go into an area.
It means if you don't want to follow Shariah
then don't go into that area.

EXACTLY!

The "debunking" was about this being a legally sanctioned state of affairs. Like that the police would somehow arrest you if it was found out you were non-muslim who entered there.
You are free to go in or out as you want! But, there is threat and danger possible from the inhabitants.
Cover your heads, ladies- make sure the forms of your body are hidden, keep your eyes down.
Men- speak arabic, learn the appropriate "signs" to wear (as the man doing this documentary did).

Or don't. You are totally free to do as you please. But being stoned hurts, I can tell you from experience.
The knives and guns and gang beatings and rape, we'll, I bet those are pretty uncomfortable too. I don't know for sure, I didn't choose to insist. I moved. But the french government and police will never stop you from going on to invite those too.

If you try afterwards, to go to the police, they will tell you what they told us, "Sorry, we can't do anything. We won't go in there. It is too dangerous for us." They are not legally held to avoiding the area- they have rights as individuals too- individuals who value their life, and don't want to risk it.

If you want to, you have all the freedom you want to do so. But like many personal choices in life, you are then going to have to face the consequences on your own too.

a reply to: Bluesma

Le petit journal is what dukeoffive was referring too i believe,they went round and interviewed people from the supposed no go zones ...there is plenty on it this is just one skit they put together

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Hahaha.... yeah, I don't know if people didn't pay attention well, or if there was problems with translation in that.

The thing they made fun of was that the american media made mistakes about the locations of these areas!!!!!

The american news which showed a map and highlighted the "zones Urbaines Sensibles" (called no-go in english) were all screwed up- they highlighted areas which are not and failed to highlight those which were.

That's where the humor was, in going to the mistaken areas and interviewing inhabitants there.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

But I do recognise a lot of these people are brainwashed by Hadith quoters from young...

Charlie i think you or someone needs to educate us non Muslims about Hadiths and their relationship to the Quran . As i understand it the Hadiths are interpretations of the Quran .The Quran is the Quran , how can it be interpreted . A thread with your ideas would get this from me .

a reply to: Bluesma

Language barriers always cause confusion...