Christians, have you ever considered you might be on the wrong side?

a reply to: Woodcarver
It requires a bit of understanding but...

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

a reply to: Akragon

Matthew 13:41-42, 49-50 “The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Mark 9:43, 48-49 “And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire…where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’ For everyone will be salted with fire.”

Sounds like Jesus supported an eternal hell to me.

Matthew 25:46 “And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

a reply to: Akragon

I'll admit I have no clue what the supposed after life will be, what I mentioned is according to the novel.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: Akragon

Matthew 13:41-42, 49-50 “The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Mark 9:43, 48-49 “And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire…where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’ For everyone will be salted with fire.”

Sounds like Jesus supported an eternal hell to me.

Matthew 25:46 “And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Perhaps, IF one prefers the literal interpretation...

Though perhaps he wasn't speaking literally... He seems to be using apocalyptic imagery more then something that will actually happen... It was a big thing in the first and second century.

Now do you believe HE actually meant that you should hack off your hand IF it causes you to sin?

As if Jesus wanted people lopping off body parts?

originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
a reply to: Akragon

I'll admit I have no clue what the supposed after life will be, what I mentioned is according to the novel.

Right... and according to "the novel" Jesus was the only man to have remembered being with God

Even called himself "the truth" because of it...

a reply to: Akragon

Perhaps, IF one prefers the literal interpretation...

Don't have a preference, that's just the most plausible interpretation to me. I do understand yours.

Luke 12:5 “But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him!”

I think the belief was to literally fear a literal hell.

originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
a reply to: Akragon

The adjustment is pretty negligible regarding the fact that he's still wants/or has to punish you for misguided reasons...
My problem is the whole Doctrine of heaven and hell and it's basically this; you live your entire life devoted to a deity and his kid, your ridiculed by unbelievers most of your life and then when you finally perish from this life you end up spending eternity kissing God's ass. It's indentured servitude to a deity who wants to live in an echo chamber.

That's not what the Bible means or says.

As soon as I figured out how to cross reference the Bible like a detective this is my basic understanding of what God wants

God wants his physical version of himself that is mankind to live perfectly happy lives but when the resistor called Satan came into the picture because he rejected gods rule which always turns out for the best for his physical creations called man kind because God did not want robots he wanted you to make a choice between your own version of justice using the thoughts of a rebellious resistor called Satan and serve yourself and and with satans influence make up your own mind but not really making up your own mind because you're being influenced by Satan a rebellious angel who was jealous of God so he did the opposite of God ore you can take all of the suggestions on how to live your life given to you by your Creator which is like a car manual for taking care of your car why would you reject a car manual or use a car manual for a Toyota truck and try to use that for a Chevy car its a similar thing anyway so he wants you to have free will now because we are in this mess and Satan has accused god of not ruling his creation in the right way and instead Satan has a better way or influence the humans to at least appear like they're making up their own mind without knowing that they're being influenced by him meaning Satan so because we are in this mess this temporary mess that could be considered a alternate reality even though the former reality was put on hold because if Adam and Eve decided to for example use that car manual for the Toyota truck on the actual Toyota truck or use the manual given to them by their Creator then they would live perfect happy lives with the most endearing relationship with their Creator forever in a beautiful paradise earth but that is not where we are today we are in a temporary mess so the Bible tells me that God has not changed his perfect purpose for mankind he just put that one on hold until we resolve this issue just like if we were in a classroom and there was a professor that had all the proof in the world that this is the correct equation for a particular problem on the chalkboard and one student raises his hand and says no no I have a better equation well the teacher would do himself a disservice in convincing the class that she had the only correct equation if he was to excuse the student and tell him to go to the principal's office then all the other children would wonder did their classmate have a point shouldn't the teacher have let him prove his point so they can see that the student was mistaken and the teacher had the only true equation for the problem on the chalkboard? This is the issue that face is mankind today the rebellious student is Satan the devil the liar the resistor he took his free will and decided to go a completely different version of leading life he has a different equation so God only allows this evil to exist until the whole world understands unquestionably that God the Creator has the only rules and regulations that actually work for true happiness and life everlasting on a paradise earth with the exception of those who are personally selected by God to rule with Christ in heaven for a period of time as Co rulers then the rest of those who are on God's side and live under God's rules even in these terrible times will be written in the book of life to live forever in the original purpose for God to have humans live in a paradise earth forever as for the idea of hellfire this was not God's intent for you to believe that he would even think of burning consciously a wrongdoer forever and ever but false prophets have twisted God's words and even replaced some text in the Bible to make you believe that God is a tyranical God and will punish you forever and ever and he has not even chosen to do this to Satan himself so why would he do it for someone in less evil then Satan he simply says that Satan will be gone forever wiped out of existence the reference of torment forever is only to imply that they will never exist again they will never have their influence in this world again so in a sense evil is suffering and those who join with it is suffering in a sense that they can never exist again that influence can never come back once this issue that we have today is solved as for people who make it a practice of ridiculing you that is never been the intent for God or His Son Jesus they both brown on people ridiculing you God's people are not to ridicule at all so if they do not repent in ridiculing or stumbling other people which has a terrible of fact it makes people draw away from the true God and that provides a stumbling block for the path of having a relationship with the only true God that is a serious offense and those who continue to ridicule are not written in God's book of life so they will if they do not repent from this wrongdoing will go down with Satan and never exist again there are many scriptures that frown on this there are many scriptures that refer to the paradise on earth there are many scriptures that refer to a selected group going to heaven and a great number of people staying on earth living in paradise and living perfect lives of peace forever and ever there are many scriptures that show that whether you are evil or you are good when you die you have no conscience at all you have no idea that you are dead there are some unrighteous and righteous who will be reserved for a resurrection once this earth is a paradise again so my understanding of the Bible is nowhere close to what you view the message of the Bible is so the question is how can one person get an almost opposite view of the Bible after studying in the very very deeply and another person have a complete opposite view of the Bible and just ask me if you want the Scriptures that influence my decision and my views of the Bible I can do that for you also but right now I have to go to work.
I'll be back

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

Well, how would one experience this eternal burning of "hell" if their body is dead?

Theres various ways to think about the idea... Perhaps this burning is actually the recollection of all that said person has done wrong to others in their life time... Perhaps one will experience the other side of what we've done...

What is Hell to you?

Personally IF I had to sit around a cloudy city with Christians for eternity THAT would be hell to me

IF I had to listen to those silly hymns you hear in church for eternity.... THAT would be hell to me

I don't believe he meant it literally... though I could be wrong

a reply to: NateTheAnimator

Black is the new white. Just because...

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

Well, how would one experience this eternal burning of "hell" if their body is dead?

Theres various ways to think about the idea... Perhaps this burning is actually the recollection of all that said person has done wrong to others in their life time... Perhaps one will experience the other side of what we've done...

What is Hell to you?

Personally IF I had to sit around a cloudy city with Christians for eternity THAT would be hell to me

IF I had to listen to those silly hymns you hear in church for eternity.... THAT would be hell to me

I don't believe he meant it literally... though I could be wrong

[ Ecclesiastes 9; 4-7 ]
4. There is hope for whoever is among the living, because a live dog is better off than a dead lion. 5. For the living knowa that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6. Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun.
7. Go, eat your food with rejoicing, and drink your wine with a cheerful heart, for already the true God has found pleasure in your works.

originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
a reply to: Raggedyman

If the OP is so illogical, than tear it to shreds... Why post this drivel?

As I said, you are not interested in reason
You just wanted to troll and rant

there are rules and there is justice.
Consider that if you want

In all seriousness this is not my argument, it's just that I understand why you are wrong, I cared, I studied, I understand why you are wrong

I read Akragon, he makes no sense, his logic is flawed
I don't think he could explain his own beliefs.

a reply to: Raggedyman

I read Akragon, he makes no sense, his logic is flawed
I don't think he could explain his own beliefs.

Which basically means you wouldn't understand the gospels, most of my beliefs come from there so...

Where is my logic flawed anyways?

a reply to: vincentdaniel7

Wow..that was a load..

Seriously though you might want to take off the "I-love-God" beer googles and reexamine the book a little more objectively. We were not created according to your mythology for any other purpose but to worship God and his son, anything else is merely an insignificant secondary to the so called plan.

the Bible tells me that God has not changed his perfect purpose for mankind he just put that one on hold until we resolve this issue just like if we were in a classroom and there was a professor that had all the proof in the world that this is the correct equation for a particular problem on the chalkboard and one student raises his hand and says no no I have a better equation well the teacher would do himself a disservice in convincing the class that she had the only correct equation if he was to excuse the student and tell him to go to the principal's office then all the other children would wonder did their classmate have a point shouldn't the teacher have let him prove his point so they can see that the student was mistaken and the teacher had the only true equation for the problem on the chalkboard?

Yeah that is a good question? Why the # would you kick out a student who is clearly so arrogant to propose anything other than the already undisputed equation? Why would the professor not just have out right called him/or her on their bull# in front of all the students to prove to everyone why his equation is wrong. No instead the professor decides to give the ignorant fool ammo by casting him out of the class and taking a few ignorant fools with him so they can roam the halls, spreading there fiendishly nefarious equation to their fellow students...
Does this seriously not sound off to you? Why would an all powerful deity not just show Satan how wrong he is? We are talking about the same deity who created the universe right?

originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
What did he do to mankind to deserve the kind of hate he gets?

For starters, he has deceived all of us into believing that God is the bad guy and he is not...

His lies are the reason you believe what God's enemies have to say about Him.

God isn't going to force you to believe what He says.

Believing everything you've been told is not in your best interest.

Speaking to a group of Jews, Jesus says:

“You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies” ~ John 8:44

a reply to: Raggedyman

As I said, you are not interested in reason You just wanted to troll and rant there are rules and there is justice. Consider that if you want In all seriousness this is not my argument, it's just that I understand why you are wrong, I cared, I studied, I understand why you are wrong I read Akragon, he makes no sense, his logic is flawed I don't think he could explain his own beliefs.

If I'm wrong feel free to correct my ridiculous assertions.
I'm not here to troll, I'm here hoping someone is willing to explain why Satan is the evilest and God is the greatest. Simple as that. If that offends you in some way, than ignore this thread.

a reply to: Murgatroid

It's quite to the contrary, Christianity and all of it's secs have dominated most of the world for centuries. It's doctrines teach and clearly portray God as a loving and merciful father figure to his creations. Read Psalms, most of it is littered with poetry of love for God and how wonderful he is.

Was Satan obviously not full of it when he told Eve that she would be like God if she ate from the fruit? If Satan's such a liar why would Adam and Eve have known they were nude,feel guilt for breaking God's one rule? Why would God let all that happen to begin with? So he could swoop in and save the day?

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Raggedyman

I read Akragon, he makes no sense, his logic is flawed
I don't think he could explain his own beliefs.

Which basically means you wouldn't understand the gospels, most of my beliefs come from there so...

Where is my logic flawed anyways?

Why did Jesus come to earth, simple question

a reply to: NateTheAnimator

No, not at all.

Only the uneducated would think that.

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Raggedyman

I read Akragon, he makes no sense, his logic is flawed
I don't think he could explain his own beliefs.

Which basically means you wouldn't understand the gospels, most of my beliefs come from there so...

Where is my logic flawed anyways?

Why did Jesus come to earth, simple question

Simple answer...

To show the world the ONE true God...

Im sure your answer would be "to die for our sins"... so keep in mind I am not Christian

a reply to: Akragon

What is Hell to you?

A fictional place invented by people who want to control people with fear.

Well, how would one experience this eternal burning of "hell" if their body is dead?

How would one experience the bliss of Heaven if ones body is dead? I don't know. That's metaphysics for you

Perhaps this burning is actually the recollection of all that said person has done wrong to others in their life time.

It's certainly an interesting thought. I think if there is an afterlife then it would make sense that the process of shedding one's terrestrial-self would entail working through all that. Like sitting on a therapists couch but on steroids.

That said, this is general metaphysical musings and not really something we can attribute to Christian scripture. Or can we? Again, to me it seems to be speaking of a realm where people 'go' and 'experience' eternal suffering. That's just how it reads to me *shrug*

Personally IF I had to sit around a cloudy city with Christians for eternity THAT would be hell to me

Definitely

But also there is no bloody way could we handle eternity if we persevere as the same being. We'd have to transcend and become something godly ourselves to handle eternity...surely. At which point what's the difference between death and the dissolution of self?