High School Football Coach to Defy School District Order to not Pray after Game

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: CB328

I saw this earlier, if some guy wants to pray before a game (like Jesus gives a crap about football) I say let him. I do not see what the big deal is.

Separation of church and state in a public school.

Doesn't matter how benign it seems or how nice the guy is ----- slippery slopes can not be supported.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Let the people practice their religion like the Bill of Rights allows.

But keep church and state separate. Imposing ones religion on others, like kids at a ball game, goes beyond religious freedom.

originally posted by: Annee

Separation of church and state in a public school.

Doesn't matter how benign it seems or how nice the guy is ----- slippery slopes can not be supported.

All for separation of church and state as my posting history demonstrates but I do not see how a person praying is establishing a religion if they are not compelling others to join.

Say he sat down to eat in the cafeteria and wanted to bow his head and acknowledge Shismar before chowing down, is that allowed?

I really do not see why this is an issue.

Can someone show me where he is forcing (imposing) people to pray to his god?

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Klassified
But keep your religion away from our kids in a publicly funded school, where you are a publicly funded teacher.

If he is not proselytizing or compelling others to join him what is the issue? I am all for separation of church and state but this particular issues seems a bit fascist to me.

After reading Schuylers post, things make a bit more sense. However, this guy is one of the coaches. Some students are going to feel a sense of obligation, whether they agree with prayer or not. In that way, I feel like he IS using his position to proselytize. Nevertheless, it is admittedly a grey area.

Since he has not (as far as we know) asked any student or faculty to stand with him in prayer after a game, I'm not so sure anything needs to be done, with the above in mind. However, the school renting facilities to churches, may be another topic altogether.

What does Jesus - or religion in general - have to do with high school sports, or football?

"Lord, we want your light, your love, your compassion, so we can win tonight."

I don't get it?

When I wrestled in high school, a lot of people would pray. Good for them.

I just don't think Jesus or God really cares about sports.

If they're even real, whatever relevance that has.

Religious people are something special.

a reply to: intrptr

Where is he forcing it on kids at the ballgame though? It's completely voluntary, no one is being forced to pray if they don't want to.

a reply to: CB328

Its an easy way to stop this


Make it mandatory that Hindu kids can have their side group to pray to Shiva


The Christians would ban prayer in no time flat

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Let the people practice their religion like the Bill of Rights allows. But keep church and state separate. Imposing ones religion on others, like kids at a ball game, goes beyond religious freedom.

Two issues here. How is he "imposing" if joining in is strictly voluntary? Secondly, if we must have a strict separation of church and state, how can the school district open its facilities to churches on weekends to allow "homeless" churches a place to worship? Isn't that hypocritical? Why is it not OK to pray on Friday night, but it IS OK to pray on Saturday morning, a few hours later?

a reply to: Klassified

Him BEING a Christian then might be construed as obligating someone else to join. so you want to destroy or eliminate all Christians? I think not. I hope not.

originally posted by: Klassified

Some students are going to feel a sense of obligation, whether they agree with prayer or not. In that way, I feel like he IS using his position to proselytize. Nevertheless, it is admittedly a grey area.

Proselytizing is an overt act to convert someone to your religion or belief system. I do not see him doing that and if there is no compulsion then anyone who feels bad is creating that paradigm themselves.

Since he has not (as far as we know) asked any student or faculty to stand with him in prayer after a game, I'm not so sure anything needs to be done, with the above in mind.

I agree. I do not want compulsory prayer in schools of any type. Even for good ole Cthulhu.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Kind of like the people who say we shouldn't have Pride Parades, or we shouldn't be "Too Gay" in public...

It seems as if last year a College Coach was doing something similar

www.cbsnews.com...

and has held his postgame ritual at midfield after each game for a motivational talk and prayer ever since.

www.seattletimes.com...

wonder what the motivational talk was??
no one is stopping him or anyone else from praying.... no one can stop a person from praying, since you can do it in such a way as that no one knows you are praying, am I right?
but, a coach and a bunch of kids gathering at the 50 yard line and kneeling in prayer, well, that is being done, I would venture in such a way as to be noticed! therefore is seems to be more than just praying for the sake of praying, isn't it? Isn't it more like making a statement?

Kennedy, who describes himself as a God-fearing former Marine, said he believes he is “helping these kids be better people.” He says he not a lawyer and “I don’t know the Constitution.”

and, isn't he admitting right there that his prayer group on the 50 yard line is more than just a private exchange between himself and his God and more with the intention of influencing others?

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Annee

Separation of church and state in a public school.

Doesn't matter how benign it seems or how nice the guy is ----- slippery slopes can not be supported.

All for separation of church and state as my posting history demonstrates but I do not see how a person praying is establishing a religion if they are not compelling others to join.

Say he sat down to eat in the cafeteria and wanted to bow his head and acknowledge Shismar before chowing down, is that allowed?

I really do not see why this is an issue.

Because it's a slippery slope.

Christians will take it as a win and throw it into every school violation lawsuit as a "see this".

He can just as easily let those who want to pray meet him at the street corner across the street or other chosen location.

His "statement" that it has to be on the 50 yard line is not OK with me. Location not the praying.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: CB328

So you want to force people to express themselves in designated areas of your choosing?

No. He wants to religion out of public schools, and keep teachers from pushing their beliefs onto students.

I see. So you aren't for letting a person pray. Got it.

Matthew 6:6
But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Aren't people who are saying they are following the bible supposed to do what the bible says?

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: DBCowboy

Kind of like the people who say we shouldn't have Pride Parades, or we shouldn't be "Too Gay" in public...

It seems as if last year a College Coach was doing something similar

www.cbsnews.com...

Exactly. When you start dictating how one group can or cannot express themselves in public, who will be next?

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: CB328

So you want to force people to express themselves in designated areas of your choosing?

No. He wants to religion out of public schools, and keep teachers from pushing their beliefs onto students.

I see. So you aren't for letting a person pray. Got it.

Matthew 6:6
But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Aren't people who are saying they are following the bible supposed to do what the bible says?

I don't dictate how a person should adhere to their religion. Or any belief. But again, I'm for freedom. I didn't realize that was such a negative thing here.

a reply to: CB328

Just one question:

If I were to recite Jedi Mantra after the ref blows his whistle, who will complain?

If no one is being dragged to these post game sermons then I don't see an issue.

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
Kind of like the people who say we shouldn't have Pride Parades, or we shouldn't be "Too Gay" in public...

Dude. I would pay money to watch some rural high school coach come out in drag and take a knee at the fifty to acknowledge his lord and savior.

Big money. That would be epic.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Klassified

Him BEING a Christian then might be construed as obligating someone else to join. so you want to destroy or eliminate all Christians? I think not. I hope not.

Your persecution complex is showing.

I usually try to say what I mean, and mean what I say. Better to read what I wrote, and not what you think I meant by it. Yes. When someone "respected" does something at the right time and place. Sometimes they do it to encourage or facilitate others joining with them out of obligation. I hope this isn't a game this coach is playing, but it's a possibility I have to look at because we are talking about teens here. If it were adults, I would agree with Augustus. The obligation is on the adult to think for themselves.

As to the last part of your statement. See my first sentence.