Customer Claims Religious Discrimination - Company Refuses to Print Fliers.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Reallyfolks

Then you have a real problem because laws won't stop them either .

You're a troll. Let's just live in a society where the biggest gun is the law.

What does a gun have to do with anything else that we have discussed but physical harm. I'm sorry I have absolutely destroyed your points by pointing out reality and naturally a comment like your a troll is expected. It's very hard to see your naive view of utopia exposed but again you can continue to rely on a system that has never succeeded or you can overlook my homophobia for a minute and realize that lgbt members will get much further by changing their approach. Don't care which choice you make.

Guess we roll with different types of lgbt people. Personality and thought process level anyway.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

The only point that I've made is that blaming the victim isn't a valid excuse to justify discrimination or violence. From this post: www.abovetopsecret.com...

and then post: www.abovetopsecret.com...

To this post: www.abovetopsecret.com...

That's when you went off the rails, trolling, baiting and promoting apathy and anarchy.

We're done.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: Jefferton

I think - Since the nation started feeling the religio-political creep of theocracy, and started pushing back a little to delineate that boundary between church and state, the "church" side hasn't been so happy. They feel like they're losing control and power. And it drives them to extremes.

We never had control to begin with. It's all God. Whatever it is; it is what it is.

It's silly controversy for silly reasons. I wonder how people might respond if all the same circumstances applied everything except the flyers were same-sex wedding invitations.

Calm down folks. Yes laws will not stop certain people. Laws are just written words and enforceable after knowledge and actions.

How to stop those certain people? Thoughtcrime. Think 1984. Think Minority Report.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

Quite right but how many of us would get into trouble were thought crime to cover a lot of other things apart from religion. The way technology is heading we could all be made to wear little thought-crime police boxes on our heads.

Seriously I do think all religion should be made to be between one individual and their God/Godess only with the state institutions and other religious paraphernalia and perpetrators left out of the scenario altogether. (Time the religiosity got a proper job). There are getting to be too many troublesome religious 'moral prigs' around today getting on the gravy train to proselytise to everyone else.

originally posted by: JohnFisher
We never had control to begin with. It's all God. Whatever it is; it is what it is.

I've never seen or heard of "god" killing an abortion doctor, denying service to a person because he's gay, denying a marriage certificate to make a point, carrying signs that shame people for who they are, preaching creation in schools, forcing his "beliefs" on ANYONE, etc. It's THE PEOPLE who do these things. Putting it off on some imaginary creature means nothing to me.

It's silly controversy for silly reasons. I wonder how people might respond if all the same circumstances applied everything except the flyers were same-sex wedding invitations.

Does the company have a policy against printing wedding invitations? If so, they are legally allowed to do that. If not, and it's in a state that allows discrimination of LGBT people in public accommodation, I would say that that's the law at this time.

As others have said, there are many states that ALLOW LGBT discrimination, but federally, religion is protected.

originally posted by: Shiloh7
Seriously I do think all religion should be made to be between one individual and their God/Godess only with the state institutions and other religious paraphernalia and perpetrators left out of the scenario altogether.

Oh, man... If only!

Really... would it be so bad if religious people just went to church, prayed, worshiped, sang hymns, taught their children, and basked in the glory of their god? Wouldn't it be DIVINE if they just left other people ALONE??? OMG! The thought makes me giddy!

I used to feel like government encroached too much into my life. I still feel that way, but religion's constant and unrelenting encroachment into our government and lives or US citizens has surpassed ANY infringement I've felt from the government! And that's saying a LOT!

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

a reply to: Darth_Prime

So, here's what I've learned from this thread.

In 31 US states someone, lets' say a Christian mother, can walk into an Office Depot, Kinkos, Staples or mom and pop copy shop, asking to have flyer printed, let's say announcing a LGBTQ Support group, and be turned away based on the clerks personal religious beliefs that "supporting" LGBTQ groups, by printing their flyer, is an abomination to "God's" law and violates their BS, (Belief System). :-)

But, another Christian woman can walk into an Office Depot, Kinkos, Staples or mom and pop copy shop, asking to have flyer printed that condemns women who exercise their constitutionally protected reproductive rights, and attacks their doctors who accept and apply those rights, as murderers and worse, while promoting deception and lies. But, because this flyer contains a prayer calling for God to end those rights, the business MUST print it or be sued for religious discrimination.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Reallyfolks

The only point that I've made is that blaming the victim isn't a valid excuse to justify discrimination or violence. From this post: www.abovetopsecret.com...

and then post: www.abovetopsecret.com...

To this post: www.abovetopsecret.com...

That's when you went off the rails, trolling, baiting and promoting apathy and anarchy.

We're done.

Since the mod deleted my last post as being off topic let's try this again.

At no point have I blamed a victim, I have stated at the root you can either sit around complaining as a victim or you can go around the problem and overcome. Our biggest disagreement has been the aspect of physical protection , you think the pink pistol recommendation doesn't help, I think if you are dead you have no chance to overcome anything.

It's pretty sad that during our entire debate you turn what is obviously a debate about the approach of dealing with things into blaming the victim? Is that really the MO and extent of debating?


Trolling, baiting, promoting apathy, and anarchy...interesting. You see trolling, baiting, and apathy. Ok great words by the way...hit all those words with negative connotations. Good job. If you think promoting self protection is promoting anarchy I have a feeling that word games, bad attempts at changing the narrative, and attempting to count on a system that has never succeeded will one day be the least of your concerns. I mean armed gay people aren't victims, they hand out Darwin awards. How dare I suggest they take steps to protect themselves, what kind of crazy homophobic anarchist does that?

I guess we're done then.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

"Seems Office Depo POLICY"
" I'm certain Office Depo would be glad to oblige."

It is called "Office Depot" because the word "depot" has a T in it. I get a kick out of reading some of these posts.

This is discrimination though and actually this thread and the posts is how discrimination is defined. Be advised this post does not indicate a position on the topic. Only to point out a fact.

a reply to: windword

That is my understanding.

originally posted by: Harvin
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

It is called "Office Depot" because the word "depot" has a T in it. I get a kick out of reading some of these posts.

So, you posted to point out my spelling error? OK, thanks.

This is discrimination though and actually this thread and the posts is how discrimination is defined. Be advised this post does not indicate a position on the topic. Only to point out a fact.

That's kind of cryptic... WHAT is discrimination? What group is being discriminated against? How is discrimination defined? There are 8 pages of posts.

Seems saying "This is discrimination" IS indicating a position. And finally, what fact are you pointing out? The fact that I made a spelling error?

Kind of confused by your short response.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Sweet, 5-10 minutes from home. I think I'll go buy some overpriced office supplies there today in support of them doing their jobs, and doing them within the law.

As opposed to the so-called oathkeepers, who threaten violence against those who seek to uphold the law.

Good for you Office Depot Schaumburg.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Because of course, the free exercise of religion includes having someone make offensive copies for you... Right?

Shame that doesn't apply to wedding cakes.

It's perfectly 'acceptable' to sue someone over not making a cake.

But it's a 'moral' outrage when someone refuses to print flyers!.

What ever.

a reply to: neo96

Do you really not understand what discrimination is? Nobody said a baker had to decorate a penis on a wedding cake if he didn't want to. A printer shouldn't have to print something with a message that is offensive to them either. Refusing to decorate a cake a specific way and refusing to print a specific message on a flyer is NOT discrimination.

Agreeing to sell a plain white wedding cake to a straight couple but refusing to sell that same plain white wedding cake to a gay couple IS discrimination.

If Office Depot agreed to print anti-Planned Parenthood flyers for a group of atheists, but refused to print anti-Planned Parenthood flyers for a group of Christians, THAT would be religious discrimination.

a reply to: windword

Exactly, we should all get the same protections. we are not asking for "special Treatment" or 'Special Laws" we just want to be protected. we can get Fired, denied services, Jobs, housing and Property among many other things that are Legal to discriminate just because we are GLBTQ+, do people not look at the Human?

a reply to: neo96

The difference is explained here. www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: neo96
Shame that doesn't apply to wedding cakes.

The baker makes wedding cakes for other customers, he should make them for gay people.

This printer employee wouldn't have printed this flier for other customers, so shouldn't be compelled to print them for anyone.

originally posted by: Metallicus
I feel like you are trying to have it both ways. There was nothing offensive about those fliers and nothing that was hateful towards anyone else. If anything the babies that are senselessly murdered are the ones that should be the issue here not the feelings of those that perform human sacrifice.

Anyway, I doubt this will go well for Office Depot. I know they don't need my business either and I am sure I am not the only one that will be going elsewhere going forward.

What's at the core of the reason is the issue. What they denied was the printing of a message, the messenger was irrelevant. In the case of the baker it wasn't about the message but rather the messenger.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: windword

That is my understanding.

originally posted by: Harvin
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

It is called "Office Depot" because the word "depot" has a T in it. I get a kick out of reading some of these posts.

So, you posted to point out my spelling error? OK, thanks.

This is discrimination though and actually this thread and the posts is how discrimination is defined. Be advised this post does not indicate a position on the topic. Only to point out a fact.

That's kind of cryptic... WHAT is discrimination? What group is being discriminated against? How is discrimination defined? There are 8 pages of posts.

Seems saying "This is discrimination" IS indicating a position. And finally, what fact are you pointing out? The fact that I made a spelling error?

Kind of confused by your short response.

It is discrimination to deny printing the flyers based on a political belief and that should be common knowledge. If the stare (correction: store) was concerned that something in the flyers was illegal they could have easily checked on that. I am not saying that I believe a large monetary award should be given.

As far as the spelling, I posted what everyone was thinking. It sticks out like a sore thumb.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: Shiloh7
Seriously I do think all religion should be made to be between one individual and their God/Godess only with the state institutions and other religious paraphernalia and perpetrators left out of the scenario altogether.

Oh, man... If only!

Really... would it be so bad if religious people just went to church, prayed, worshiped, sang hymns, taught their children, and basked in the glory of their god? Wouldn't it be DIVINE if they just left other people ALONE??? OMG! The thought makes me giddy!

I used to feel like government encroached too much into my life. I still feel that way, but religion's constant and unrelenting encroachment into our government and lives or US citizens has surpassed ANY infringement I've felt from the government! And that's saying a LOT!

This is not a religious issue though, certainly not entirely a religious issue.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: neo96

The difference is explained here. www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: neo96
Shame that doesn't apply to wedding cakes.

The baker makes wedding cakes for other customers, he should make them for gay people.

This printer employee wouldn't have printed this flier for other customers, so shouldn't be compelled to print them for anyone.

You are contradicting yourself. You also show many of the qualities of what you protest. This is why i pointed out the spelling mistake too. A dictator should be able to spell the word "Depot".