We’ve Reached The End Of The Line—–Now The Game Changes

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: soulshn

I heard someone on a podcast recently talking about how inflation from QE hasn't actually hit yet and that has something to do with the Federal Reserve and interest rates.

I tried contacting them on Twitter for further commentary but they wouldn't reapond.

This is correct. Printing money doesn't create inflation on it's own, rather inflation is essentially a multiplier on the amount of money in the system times the velocity of money. Because the money from QE has a near zero velocity it's effect on the economy is nearly zero.

The inflation we've seen is because people are saving less and spending more, that creates a higher velocity which in turn increases inflation. Normally that's corrected with tax rates (higher taxes mean a dollar is sucked out sooner lowering velocity) but we can't pass a tax increase in this country.

a reply to: Aazadan
especially if all that money is kept in the shadow economy and is being used just to buy and sell stocks, derivative, commodities and such.
it has to pass on down to us people, who would use it to buy goods and services and such for inflation to hit.

I was on the toilet and just had this epiphany.

Humans faced several mass extinction events. One was a volcano 70,000 years ago that brought our population down to 3%.
This next mass extinction event is going to be different than any other we've faced. it will be an economic one. And it will be by design.

That's pretty disturbing. I wonder how the future history books are going to record this event.

Probably that it was just greed of a select few.... But in reality it has been deliberate. Georgia Guidestones & Bilderberg Group kind of material.

originally posted by: TheLegend
I was on the toilet and just had this epiphany.

Humans faced several mass extinction events. One was a volcano 70,000 years ago that brought our population down to 3%.
This next mass extinction event is going to be different than any other we've faced. it will be an economic one. And it will be by design.

That's pretty disturbing. I wonder how the future history books are going to record this event.

Probably that it was just greed of a select few.... But in reality it has been deliberate. Georgia Guidestones & Bilderberg Group kind of material.

We are a long ways away from an ELE caused by economics. I'm not even sure how such a thing would happen.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: TheLegend
I was on the toilet and just had this epiphany.

Humans faced several mass extinction events. One was a volcano 70,000 years ago that brought our population down to 3%.
This next mass extinction event is going to be different than any other we've faced. it will be an economic one. And it will be by design.

That's pretty disturbing. I wonder how the future history books are going to record this event.

Probably that it was just greed of a select few.... But in reality it has been deliberate. Georgia Guidestones & Bilderberg Group kind of material.

We are a long ways away from an ELE caused by economics. I'm not even sure how such a thing would happen.

Not sure this would be the ele that happens but I could follow the logic of someone saying it. Economy completely crashes, social services cut off , people scrounging, killing for food/ medicine . People quit going to work for safety fears, more services breakdown with no workers. Event after event with mass chaos. Would it, who knows, but I can see the thinking behind it

originally posted by: Reallyfolks
Not sure this would be the ele that happens but I could follow the logic of someone saying it. Economy completely crashes, social services cut off , people scrounging, killing for food/ medicine . People quit going to work for safety fears, more services breakdown with no workers. Event after event with mass chaos. Would it, who knows, but I can see the thinking behind it

The problem is that it can't happen that way. The government has immense wealth if push comes to shove. Not only can we simply create a new currency, but we have bitcoin (the US has one of the largest bitcoin reserves on the planet), we supposedly have gold to back something, we have oil to back something, we have foreign debt to back something, and even if all of those fail the US can barter away parcels of land in exchange for services like food and electricity.

In the event of a currency collapse, there would be a new currency operational through debit cards within a week and if we've made the banks already build a new currency into the system we could transition to something else within 24 hours.

Also, even if that didn't happen, local currencies would pop up quickly (which the government could standardize by exchanging parcels of land). I would suggest you look into how money was handled in colonial times, it's pretty interesting. Banking systems would pop up almost overnight.

Out of edit time so let me add to what I mentioned with banking systems. In colonial times people were even more dependent on credit than we are today. In the original colonies there were 15 different currencies in play, a barter system, country pay, and a credit system. Most of the credit systems involved banks in the large cities, you would have a banker that would keep tabs on everyones debt, and shift debts from one person to another in order to pay bills. They would also advance sums of money in anticipation of harvests and such, not all that different from the commercial paper market of today. Usually the bankers would accept payment for their advances in the form of goods and labor because cash was scarce.

Here is a pretty good read on the subject if you're interested
eh.net...

In the event of a currency collapse it would take very little time for something like this to once again come into play, and even if the adoption of a new national currency were slow it would be in place in a couple months.

originally posted by: Aazadan
In the event of a currency collapse it would take very little time for something like this to once again come into play, and even if the adoption of a new national currency were slow it would be in place in a couple months.

It would then be wise to stock up for more than a couple months, since many regular folks who are not well informed about such things (world economics and how it works) will only resort to panic in such an event when the news breaks out...and in such times it's good to be near your loved ones with enough stockrations to last the period while "the new way of doing things" is set in place.

Peace

a reply to: soulshn

THE SH@T IS NOW HITTING THE FAN WORLDWIDE BECAUSE OF SATANIC GREED.

W.A.L.L. ST...Wicked Area of Lucifers Liabilities!!!

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Reallyfolks
Not sure this would be the ele that happens but I could follow the logic of someone saying it. Economy completely crashes, social services cut off , people scrounging, killing for food/ medicine . People quit going to work for safety fears, more services breakdown with no workers. Event after event with mass chaos. Would it, who knows, but I can see the thinking behind it

The problem is that it can't happen that way. The government has immense wealth if push comes to shove. Not only can we simply create a new currency, but we have bitcoin (the US has one of the largest bitcoin reserves on the planet), we supposedly have gold to back something, we have oil to back something, we have foreign debt to back something, and even if all of those fail the US can barter away parcels of land in exchange for services like food and electricity.

In the event of a currency collapse, there would be a new currency operational through debit cards within a week and if we've made the banks already build a new currency into the system we could transition to something else within 24 hours.

Also, even if that didn't happen, local currencies would pop up quickly (which the government could standardize by exchanging parcels of land). I would suggest you look into how money was handled in colonial times, it's pretty interesting. Banking systems would pop up almost overnight.

I can also see your point. But if our economy crashes that hard so is everyone else's, who is buying much of anything. I could see. Local currencies popping up, but how does a local currency help someone on federal assistance? Gold backed? so at the Bretton woods conference after ww2, our currency was established as the world reserve. Among other things because we had somewhere around 80% of the gold reserves when we went off the gold standard because after so much currency was cashed in for gold our reserves were like 27%. You seen a gold audit recently? How much do we have. Not sure but that could throw a link into the mix. Were 18 trillion in debt, our economy crashes that hard, hits everyone else what's the chance that all foreign owned debt is called in because they need it. I think 83% of debt is owned internally but with crashed economy ..issue. New currency ok, we can't live in a budget, services will be shut off/down at that point. Couldn't pay our old debt, who would take part in anymore for years? Plus it took all of 3 days for complete breakdown in New Orleans after Katrina. Look at hati, I think week total breakdown. Disrupt lives for 48 hours pertaining to food, money, medicine. Watch out

Would what I said originally where I can follow the logic happen? Don't know, a lot relies on people. People are dumb , panicky, fearful, etc. Person maybe be smart. But what I do know is under no circumstances would I ever take the attitude of it can never happen, d efinately not of the thought we are too wealthy, and definitely not relying on a government structure that could mess up a wet dream. But these clowns will transistion a solution into place in a week while maintaining control?. Lol I'll be laughing at that one for weeks

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: soulshn

I heard someone on a podcast recently talking about how inflation from QE hasn't actually hit yet and that has something to do with the Federal Reserve and interest rates.

I tried contacting them on Twitter for further commentary but they wouldn't reapond.

This is correct. Printing money doesn't create inflation on it's own, rather inflation is essentially a multiplier on the amount of money in the system times the velocity of money. Because the money from QE has a near zero velocity it's effect on the economy is nearly zero.

The inflation we've seen is because people are saving less and spending more, that creates a higher velocity which in turn increases inflation. Normally that's corrected with tax rates (higher taxes mean a dollar is sucked out sooner lowering velocity) but we can't pass a tax increase in this country.

Wow here I thought dollars got "sucked out" when the Fed contracted the money supply, since government taxes are still "money"in the system being spent. I also had this crazy idea that inflation may in part be due to 56 countries being in some form of leaving the petro dollar. Meaning that currency is coming back, only this time buying real assets but not going back out.

Guess you learn something new everyday

originally posted by: Aazadan
Out of edit time so let me add to what I mentioned with banking systems. In colonial times people were even more dependent on credit than we are today. In the original colonies there were 15 different currencies in play, a barter system, country pay, and a credit system. Most of the credit systems involved banks in the large cities, you would have a banker that would keep tabs on everyones debt, and shift debts from one person to another in order to pay bills. They would also advance sums of money in anticipation of harvests and such, not all that different from the commercial paper market of today. Usually the bankers would accept payment for their advances in the form of goods and labor because cash was scarce.

Here is a pretty good read on the subject if you're interested
eh.net...

In the event of a currency collapse it would take very little time for something like this to once again come into play, and even if the adoption of a new national currency were slow it would be in place in a couple months.

I agree that could happen but how will local currency help if you get your lives needs from federal government. The problem is so many things at the Fed level. Local is great, but if you live in a local community doing this and members only survive because of the feds how long before that is rectified? You think people will sit patiently waiting , for what's needed for food, medicine, etc. I haven't got that much faith in the government's ability to solve a problem quickly like that, or for people in survival mode

originally posted by: Reallyfolks
I agree that could happen but how will local currency help if you get your lives needs from federal government. The problem is so many things at the Fed level. Local is great, but if you live in a local community doing this and members only survive because of the feds how long before that is rectified? You think people will sit patiently waiting , for what's needed for food, medicine, etc. I haven't got that much faith in the government's ability to solve a problem quickly like that, or for people in survival mode

It would take between hours and days for local banking systems to be set up, the feds would design a program using collateral to say, give those who were getting assistance $x in credit, that credit would then be spent locally with the promise of reimbursement either through land grants or with the new currency when it's created. A dollar crash doesn't equal bankruptcy basically, it just means the dollar isn't worth anything.

originally posted by: Reallyfolks
Wow here I thought dollars got "sucked out" when the Fed contracted the money supply, since government taxes are still "money"in the system being spent. I also had this crazy idea that inflation may in part be due to 56 countries being in some form of leaving the petro dollar. Meaning that currency is coming back, only this time buying real assets but not going back out.

Guess you learn something new everyday

Taxing and spending takes money out of the local economy. It does go back to the feds and does eventually reenter the system, but it doesn't enter at the point it left. It usually reenters in larger population centers, and when you have more people, and more spending you get a higher multiplier on the velocity, which is why a city is more expensive than a small town.

Contracting the money supply is something else entirely. Contracting the money supply is what happens when the money ceases to exist, it isn't hoarded it instead disappears (usually used to pay off debt, which takes out both the debt used as currency, and the currency itself). You can actually reduce the money supply while causing inflation if you reduce spending at a higher rate than money is removed. For example, if spending drops 5% in a year but you remove 4% of the currency inflation happens. An example of this happening historically would be what happened in the 1890's.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Reallyfolks
I agree that could happen but how will local currency help if you get your lives needs from federal government. The problem is so many things at the Fed level. Local is great, but if you live in a local community doing this and members only survive because of the feds how long before that is rectified? You think people will sit patiently waiting , for what's needed for food, medicine, etc. I haven't got that much faith in the government's ability to solve a problem quickly like that, or for people in survival mode

It would take between hours and days for local banking systems to be set up, the feds would design a program using collateral to say, give those who were getting assistance $x in credit, that credit would then be spent locally with the promise of reimbursement either through land grants or with the new currency when it's created. A dollar crash doesn't equal bankruptcy basically, it just means the dollar isn't worth anything.

4- 5 days to respond to a single location after Katrina but the will have this setup nation wide that soon? Different type of disaster but still. What collateral? No the bankruptcy comes from too much debt not enough revenue. We crash, 18 trillion in debt. There would be no way to maintain all services. We couldn't borrow anymore money to keep everything going. Services will be cut. Nice you think the solution would be quick. Don't see it , definately not nation wide, definitely not getting negotiations with different localities

Ps, it doesn't mean are bankrupt just the dollar is worth nothing. News flash, we are a fiat monetary system, the dollar is already worth nothing but what we imagine it to be.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

Collateral is easy. The federal government owns a lot of land, it also has Eminent Domain to seize land.

Edit: It's also very easy to make a new fiat currency be accepted, it takes 8 words. "This is accepted for the payment of taxes."

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Reallyfolks
Wow here I thought dollars got "sucked out" when the Fed contracted the money supply, since government taxes are still "money"in the system being spent. I also had this crazy idea that inflation may in part be due to 56 countries being in some form of leaving the petro dollar. Meaning that currency is coming back, only this time buying real assets but not going back out.

Guess you learn something new everyday

Contracting the money supply is something else entirely. Contracting the money supply is what happens when the money ceases to exist, it isn't hoarded it instead disappears (usually used to pay off debt, which takes out both the debt used as currency, and the currency itself). You can actually reduce the money supply while causing inflation if you reduce spending at a higher rate than money is removed. For example, if spending drops 5% in a year but you remove 4% of the currency inflation happens. An example of this happening historically would be what happened in the 1890's.

Want to expand on the disappearing money. The basic tool the Fed uses to contract or expand the supply of money is change the reserve ratio higher or lower. Not sure how it ties to debt disappearing.

I understand the concept of velocity but basically the only time an increased monetary supply won't cause inflation is during a depressed economy. Mainly because the monetary supply is increasing but banks are increasing reserves with it not loaning out, velocity of circulation isn't increasing.. In a normal or recovering economy increased monetary supply especially out pacing real production leads to inflation. So I guess we sort of agree and sort of don't on your original post.

As far as exit/entry points , won't even touch it except that if taxes alone could control monetary supply why have the reserve ratio at all? Why would they even need that tool/option.

a reply to: Aazadan

So sell the land, to whom? Seize private land to get more? Magically established a new currency backed by nothing, after the last one backed by nothing just failed, everyone will faithfully follow the new one? All this will happen without issues. Ok if you say so.

originally posted by: Aazadan
Out of edit time so let me add to what I mentioned with banking systems. In colonial times people were even more dependent on credit than we are today. In the original colonies there were 15 different currencies in play, a barter system, country pay, and a credit system. Most of the credit systems involved banks in the large cities, you would have a banker that would keep tabs on everyones debt, and shift debts from one person to another in order to pay bills. They would also advance sums of money in anticipation of harvests and such, not all that different from the commercial paper market of today. Usually the bankers would accept payment for their advances in the form of goods and labor because cash was scarce.

Here is a pretty good read on the subject if you're interested
eh.net...

In the event of a currency collapse it would take very little time for something like this to once again come into play, and even if the adoption of a new national currency were slow it would be in place in a couple months.

High quality article

"Bookkeeping Barter" is even easier and/or more precise nowadays with computers.

Money is always supposed to represent real world work or objects on a one to one basis.

Money is for making transactions, therefore money is like shorthand for the transferring of one thing of value for another.

Once objects are made, or tasks completed-- the world has more or better property in it, that is, the total wealth in the world has increased. As the wealth of the world increases, money should either increase in value (deflation), or increase in quantity, or some combination of the two. The total amount of money in the economy can increase in numbers of coins and notes or increase in value, and the increasing of the total wealth in the world by human action the only reason that money should be created.

Inflation of money never happens from trade, it only happens from authoritarian intervention into the currency.

All investment and credit in an economy should come from saved money that was created by an increase in the value or amount of the property in the world, so that each person keeps the wealth that they have made forever.