Autism rates exploding in Asia after they adopt western vaccination protocols.

a reply to: Pardon?

Go look them up. This stuff is all over online, and I flat don't have time to hunt it all down and post it for you. What makes your personal review any more valid than that of anyone else?

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Part of me thinks we've just gotten hypersensitive to diagnosing Autism. I think 20 years ago no one would think twice about a kid, but these days parents are hypochondriacs and demand a diagnosis as to why little Timmy isn't learning as fast or isn't as social as his peers.

Actually, it is most often not the parents at all; rather it is the school administrations and physicians who push for testing on children who don't behave "normally" for their developmental stage or seem to have a little harder time learning than others or show a lack of focus or social skills, speech difficulty, inability to follow directions, seem to be hyperactive, overly shy...and the teachers are the judges of that, even though they are largely unqualified to do so.

Parents are often required to obtain an exam if their child is not performing as expected in the classroom, and in some areas, schools can refuse re-admittance of a child until the testing has been done. Social Services are also notified if the parents fail to comply.

a reply to: tigertatzen

My mother taught 4th grade for over 20 years and retired this year -- she said kids today aren't that much different than 20 years ago. What she has noticed are the parents. Over-involved parents that think their kid never does anything wrong and the everything is the school or teacher's fault. And on the flip side she said that there are also more parents that do the opposite, don't care at all. It used to be a lot more "in the middle" -- now you have two diametrically opposed camps of parents.

I could see fresh teachers out of college pushing for diagnoses, but experienced teacher that have been "in the game" for a long time probably are less likely to go down that route.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Translation: I cannot argue against the scientific evidence so I'll instead dismiss it out of hand.

a reply to: stormcell

The medical profession is actually abandoning the use of Thimerosal (containing Mercury, used as a preservative for vaccines). The anti-vaxxers believe that a combination of Mercury (known to cause brain damage) plus immune system stimulants might just cause the immune system to attack the cellular structure of the brain.

They aren't abandoning it at all. The FDA says that if it is not listed as a "preservative", it is completely legal to omit it from the ingredient list or even to say that the vaccine does not contain Thimerosal at all. It is still being used, and will be as long as it is allowed by FDA regulations.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: superman2012

I didn't evade anything. How about you answer your own question? What research is acceptable to you? Just studies that agree with your stance, with bad/faulty science used, or are others allowed as well? See how that works? You show your bias when you assume that any study that shows a different conclusion from the one you accept is based on "bad/faulty science". Typical. There is no point discussing an issue like this with someone whose mind is planted in concrete.

Still evading huh? Okay I'll play.

Any SCIENTIFIC (with research of course) paper would work for me. A study with links showing where they got their information from, works for me. Any peer reviewed research paper, works for me.

I do quite enjoy how you are TRYING to turn this around all the while completely ignoring the fact that you are ignoring the question. Want to know why? You don't have an answer.

a reply to: spygeek

now you are the one telling lies. please show us a case that has been medically proven to have been caused by vaccines.

The fact is that ASD has an unknown etiology, period. Nothing has been medically proven to cause it. However, it has been linked to certain chemicals and other environmental factors, including the ones in several types of vaccines.

There have been numerous clinical studies done that show exactly that:

Thimerosol is an antiseptic containing 49.5% ethyl mercury that has been used for years as a preservative in many infant vaccines and in flu vaccines. Environmental methyl mercury has been shown to be highly neurotoxic, especially to the developing brain. Because mercury has a high affinity for thiol (sulfhydryl (-SH)) groups, the thiol-containing antioxidant, glutathione (GSH), provides the major intracellular defense against mercury-induced neurotoxicity. Cultured neuroblastoma cells were found to have lower levels of GSH and increased sensitivity to thimerosol toxicity compared to glioblastoma cells that have higher basal levels of intracellular GSH. Thimerosal-induced cytotoxicity was associated with depletion of intracellular GSH in both cell lines. Pretreatment with 100 microM glutathione ethyl ester or N-acetylcysteine (NAC), but not methionine, resulted in a significant increase in intracellular GSH in both cell types. Further, pretreatment of the cells with glutathione ethyl ester or NAC prevented cytotoxicity with exposure to 15 microM Thimerosal. Although Thimerosal has been recently removed from most children's vaccines, it is still present in flu vaccines given to pregnant women, the elderly, and to children in developing countries. The potential protective effect of GSH or NAC against mercury toxicity warrants further research as possible adjunct therapy to individuals still receiving Thimerosal-containing vaccinations.

Thimerosal

One strategy to investigate pathogenesis is to stratify this heterogeneous disorder based on a prominent phenotypic feature that enriches for homogeneity within population strata. Co-occurring gastrointestinal dysfunction (GID) characterizes a subset of children with ASD. Our current objective was to investigate a potential pathophysiological measure to test the hypothesis that children with both ASD and GID have a more severe metabolic dysfunction than children with ASD-only, given that the highly metabolically active brain and gastrointestinal system may additively contribute measurable impairment. Plasma levels of F2t-Isoprostanes (F2-IsoPs), a gold standard biomarker of oxidative stress, were measured in 87 children in four groups: ASD-GID, ASD-only, GID-only and Unaffected. F2-IsoP levels were elevated in all 3 clinical groups compared to the Unaffected group, with the ASD-GID group significantly elevated above the ASD-only group (mean, SD in pg/mg: ASD-GID 53.6, 24.4; ASD-only 36.5, 13.3; p = 0.007). Adjusting for age, sex, and triglyceride levels, F2-IsoP levels remained significantly different between study groups, with a moderate effect size of ηp2 = 0.187 (p = 0.001). Elevation in peripheral oxidative stress is consistent with, and may contribute to, the more severe functional impairments in the ASD-GID group. With unique medical, metabolic, and behavioral features in children with ASD-GID, the present findings serve as a compelling rationale for both individualized approaches to clinical care and integrated studies of biomarker enrichment in ASD subgroups that may better address the complex etiology of ASD.

Clinical study

The association between environmentally released mercury, special education and autism rates in Texas was investigated using data from the Texas Education Department and the United States Environmental Protection Agency. A Poisson regression analysis adjusted for school district population size, economic and demographic factors was used. There was a significant increase in the rates of special education students and autism rates associated with increases in environmentally released mercury. On average, for each 1,000 lb of environmentally released mercury, there was a 43% increase in the rate of special education services and a 61% increase in the rate of autism. The association between environmentally released mercury and special education rates were fully mediated by increased autism rates. This ecological study suggests the need for further research regarding the association between environmentally released mercury and developmental disorders such as autism

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

First baby haircut samples were obtained from 94 children diagnosed with autism using Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th edition (DSM IV) criteria and 45 age- and gender-matched controls. Information on diet, dental amalgam fillings, vaccine history, Rho D immunoglobulin administration, and autism symptom severity was collected through a maternal survey questionnaire and clinical observation. Hair mercury levels in the autistic group were 0.47 ppm versus 3.63 ppm in controls, a significant difference. The mothers in the autistic group had significantly higher levels of mercury exposure through Rho D immunoglobulin injections and amalgam fillings than control mothers. Within the autistic group, hair mercury levels varied significantly across mildly, moderately, and severely autistic children, with mean group levels of 0.79, 0.46, and 0.21 ppm, respectively. Hair mercury levels among controls were significantly correlated with the number of the mothers' amalgam fillings and their fish consumption as well as exposure to mercury through childhood vaccines, correlations that were absent in the autistic group. Hair excretion patterns among autistic infants were significantly reduced relative to control. These data cast doubt on the efficacy of traditional hair analysis as a measure of total mercury exposure in a subset of the population.

Mercury study

There are more than that too, the list goes on and on.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: superman2012
...and independent labs, and peer reviewed papers, etc, etc.
You know....sound science in general agrees with this point and disagrees with your viewpoint.

Peer reviewed simply means that the person doing the study towed the party line, and was thus accepted. Not a valid consideration, sorry.

Yet another example of someone claiming to understand something while completely missing the actual meaning! lol

a reply to: tigertatzen

However, it has been linked to certain chemicals and other environmental factors, including the ones in several types of vaccines.

At what concentrations? Are people exposed to more in everyday life, or just through vaccines? Just because there is a correlation, does not mean it is the cause.

a reply to: tigertatzen

New Meta-analysis Confirms: No Association between Vaccines and Autism. Analysis of 10 studies involving more than 1.2 million children reaffirms that vaccines don’t cause autism; MMR shot may actually decrease risk.

This is the biggest most recent study, published in 2014: www.sciencedirect.com...

a reply to: SoulSurfer

Awesome thread, I had a mild case of autism to which i conclude it was vaccine related. Because I remember being a happy normal child.

You do realize that Autism isn't something that you can "catch", like the common cold or the flu, correct? You would have been vaccinated earlier than you could possibly remember; unless your parents just suddenly decided to have you vaccinated in late childhood out of the blue, so it's very doubtful that your "mild case of autism" (there is no such distinction, by the way) was vaccine-related. It is also a permanent condition. No one just "had" it...if you have it, you will always have it, lol. Sorry but that was just too ridiculous to let slip by the wayside.

I knew a girl who NEVER talked until she was pretty old for a kid. I'm talking kindergarten age here. No one said she had autism. No special classes, no medication. She just was the shy girl who never talked.

Guess what? 20 years later she's a "normal" person in society. She talks just fine and isn't shy or anything.

I also knew a kid in grade school from about 1-5th grades who was called a "day dreamer". He learned to not do that anymore and got really good grades in jr and sr high school. He's well-adjusted and doing better than some other kids I knew.

We never classified any of these kids as having autism. They just did some stuff that kids...do. Kids aren't cookie-cutter and all behave within a very narrow spectrum, there's all types. These days we have to find something wrong with them.

On my smoke breaks I hear mothers complaining about the medications the doctor is giving their kid that "bites". Holy crap the meds these 5 year old kids are on! What the hell people!?

"The doctor had the nerve to tell me that I spoil my kid...I'm finding a new doctor ASAP, I can't believe he questioned my parenting, he's a doctor not a psychologist!"

No joke, I hear stuff very similar from moms when I'm on break.

I don't know about you, but when I was a kid and threw a fit or cried -- I was ignored until I stopped. I learned that making a scene wouldn't result in me getting my way, so I stopped using it as a way to get attention. I can clearly remember thinking it too. "Hm...this isn't working anymore, they're not going to buy me that action figure..."

I know a lot of parents my age in their 30's that are almost afraid of their own kids!

a reply to: MystikMushroom
I get called a bad parent by some family for taking away the Xbox when they misbehave or don't listen.

Some parents nowadays are wanting to be their kids friend more than they want to be a parent. They also look for a quick fix for their kids problems or some sort of effin disorder to label them with to excuse their behaviour.

Is it this way for all parents and kids? No, but it sure seems like it is becoming more and more common which would be another reason why the Autism rates are exploding. Easy diagnosis.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

I really do agree with you on the over-involved parent thing, but the cases that I have seen up close and personal, inclusive of my own child, have been brought to the attention of the parents by teachers. And the woman who tried to tell me that my daughter wasn't "normal" had been teaching the 2nd grade for almost 30 years. I refused to have my daughter tested because there was nothing wrong with her, and I had to fight the entire district because they did not want to allow her back into school. They have a chart, kept on each child in the class. A checklist of "symptoms". I have seen it. This happened to numerous other people whom I personally know. And after working in pediatric medicine for almost two decades, I have seen it time and time again...parents having to pay out of pocket for specialty exams because their school admin were insistent that there was something medically wrong with their kids. They really get pushy with that stuff when they think it's ADHD too...it seems like any time a kid is having a bad day and acting out, they must have attention deficit. My brother was home-schooled for that exact reason; my mom refused to medicate him and he wasn't allowed back at school.

a reply to: superman2012

I get called a bad parent by some family for taking away the Xbox when they misbehave or don't listen.

Some parents nowadays are wanting to be their kids friend more than they want to be a parent. They also look for a quick fix for their kids problems or some sort of effin disorder to label them with to excuse their behaviour.

Is it this way for all parents and kids? No, but it sure seems like it is becoming more and more common which would be another reason why the Autism rates are exploding. Easy diagnosis.

Autism is absolutely nothing like just some bratty kid misbehaving. Symptoms are severe and affect the quality of their lives. It is a mistake to trivialize something that is in reality a debilitating disorder. No reputable physician in their right mind is going to "mistake" the signs and symptoms of autism with a poorly-behaved child. Ever. And it is ridiculous to even suggest such a thing. If you had picked ADHD or Bipolar disorder, I might agree with you. But autism is nothing like those at all...a totally different ballgame altogether.

a reply to: Agartha

New Meta-analysis Confirms: No Association between Vaccines and Autism. Analysis of 10 studies involving more than 1.2 million children reaffirms that vaccines don’t cause autism; MMR shot may actually decrease risk.

First of all, it is not the MMR vaccine that is the risk. It is the flu vaccine. Second, the "analysis" doesn't "reaffirm" anything. It is a compilation of certain evidence that has been used to suggest a lack of correlation, not hard data being researched and applied to real research subjects in a real study. It is guesswork. And they admit as much, right there in your link.

We performed a meta-analysis to summarise available evidence from case-control and cohort studies on this topic

Two reviewers extracted data on study characteristics, methods, and outcomes. Disagreement was resolved by consensus with another author.

your link

a reply to: tigertatzen

They never did that at my school, which happens to be the same one my mother taught at for over 20 years.

I guess it's up to the individual school districts how militant they want to get about student behavior. Kids are kids, and this whole "not normal" thing drives me nuts. It never used to be this way.

a reply to: superman2012

At what concentrations? Are people exposed to more in everyday life, or just through vaccines? Just because there is a correlation, does not mean it is the cause.

Doesn't mean it isn't the cause either, to be fair. It is very possible, however. Some people are more sensitive to certain things than others. You cannot place a blanket "normal" value on everyone and say that it is the absolute 100% accurate value...medical science proves that every single day. It could be a cumulative effect, as you mentioned, and somehow the particular concentration of the chemical makeup interacts with that in a certain predisposed demographic. No one knows what causes autism, so in actuality it is wrong to say that vaccines are not the cause...for all we know, they might actually be, in a certain group of people. It could be a very large group, and quite culturally (and otherwise) diverse as well.

a reply to: tigertatzen

There is no difference in autism rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated children. This (lack of) relationship has been established with literally millions of data points. That alone is solid evidence that there is no causal relationship between childhood vaccinations and autism.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Normal is not normal, are we clear?

Normal doesn't even freaking exist, LOL!

I just see people flinging poo around.

Crazy. Hairless. Apes.

So glad I don't have kids, I'd have to home-school them, or at least leave the US.. I hear France seems to do things well for the adhd. Maybe we could, you know, actually go back to parenting, not slave-driving off a cliff, giving our kids scraps cause the pie was gobbled up long ago.