Greek banks closed on Monday. state of emergency.

originally posted by: TonyS
That would allow the military and the police and secret police to round up the leftists and place them in internment camps while at the same time confiscating any and all of their property and bank accounts.

Or it would allow the military and the secret police to round up the remaining conservatives and place them in internment camps etc. - sorry to say, but dictatorships aren't (alas) the privilege of right-wingers. I don't think either is a plausible scenario, but for completness sake..

Just more proof of collapse evolving with the economy and people warn and the naysayers just laugh and mock you.

I never thought a referendum, which is the quintessence of democracy, would bring so much chaos to the world...

When the Greek PM brought out the news, the Euro-group panicked and they immediately stopped the cash flow to the greek banks.
In order to terrorize to the Greek people, who would empty the banks, bringing Greece to emergency.

The Greek government couldn't do anything more, but to protect the greek banking system by capital control.

Obama is in constant phone calls with A.M. and the Euro leaders, pushing them to find a solution before Greece goes to the referendum...
After that the euro-group takes a step back, stating they now will to discuss the new austerity measures.

The media in and out the country have started fear mongering, to convince the Greek people to vote for yes,

The opposing political power, right-wing and socialists (who together brought the country in this tragic situation with various scandals the past 45 years), now terrorize the people with catastrophic scenarios if they dare to vote for No.

But it really isn't about political ideologies. It is about giving an end to the impasse of borrowing more and more and more money, each time with more austerity, forever. There is no way Greece can pay the debt which gets bigger and bigger.

Some Greeks benefit from this situation while the majority suffers. This is nothing new but...

People in fear will vote for Yes, Those who have nothing to lose will vote for no
But in no way this is civil war between political movements... left or right.

The far right nationalist movement Golden Down agrees with the policies of the new leftist government Syriza and welcomes the referendum, while the older corrupted ones are against, including the communist party which opposes the current leftist government more than it did to the right-wings and socialists all these past years.

So it's obvious it isn't about political ideologies ... and this situation is too critical, for some parties to capitalize on that
and brainwash the already terrorized people, who now have to vote for their future and their children's future, in a country that has reached economical dead end.

originally posted by: jellyrev

Greece should have never been in the EU monetary system. It had goldman sachs fake it numbers to get in.

It's over for the greeks, I hope they planned ahead, this thing has been coming for years. I mean they just watched it happen to their fellow greeks in cyprus.

Goldman Sachs never had skin in the game either as usual when they "lent" money to the Greece Muppets.
They had it rigged where they win no matter the outcome.

It is parasitic entities like Goldman Sachs and many of the other Financial Institutions in America that will bring us down.
They used to provide a mutual service but now it is only all about filling their own pockets with other peoples money and buying politicians to make it so-> We are all muppets to them.

a reply to: liteonit6969

GO Greece GO!

Show this banksters your middlefinger, let the people decide if they wanna be ruined by IWF/EZB/EU further!
This is another masterpiece of Goldman Sachs, they ruined Greece, and made and make money from it, as germany does, till today!
They tell us they would send money to Greece, but the give it again to the banksters, almost nothing arrives in Greece, for the people, for urgently needed medical and social care.
The Banksters and the EU enslaved the greece people with interests, they pushed them into these credits, they pushed greece into the euro, knowing how it would end, in many problems!
Doesn´t this smell like a plan, like a made crisis, from that the Banksters, some Nations, and that one percent profit?
I just can talk about the media here in germany, they almost tell us complete lies about whats going on in greece, they want us to hate the greece people(they are all lazy, lying the whole day at the beach and are drinking ouzo and are dancing sirtaki[which is a dance which was invented for a movie]...), instead of the Banksters and the "Elites", the real criminals.
Who is able to avoid taxes? People with the money to avoid taxes, the one percenters again.
What should people avoid that have no money anymore for a home, for food, for their own health, and this is the majority of the greece people, that were robbed and their lifes were destroyed by the banksters, the "elites", the one percenters(not the bikers...xD)

originally posted by: Dr1Akula
I never thought a referendum, which is the quintessence of democracy, would bring so much chaos to the world...

Tsipras waited as long as he did for a number of reasons: firstly to buy more time and secondly to cover his ass. Democracy has nothing to do with it; he already HAS a mandate from the voters to say "no", there is no need for an additional referendum. But even if Tsipras really believes that the people need to be asked again - he could have organised this referendum weeks, if not months ago. So, though I sympathise with the Greek, this indeed was not called for and yes, it's clearly a provocation. And if one provokes, one might expect a response.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: TonyS
That would allow the military and the police and secret police to round up the leftists and place them in internment camps while at the same time confiscating any and all of their property and bank accounts.

Or it would allow the military and the secret police to round up the remaining conservatives and place them in internment camps etc. - sorry to say, but dictatorships aren't (alas) the privilege of right-wingers. I don't think either is a plausible scenario, but for completness sake..

Yea, I thought about that and had difficulty parsing through it. If memory serves correctly, when leftists take over, its considered a "Revolution" and with a very few exceptions, it seems Army Juntas are usually right wing. I posit that perhaps the exceptions would be the Russian Revolution, though I posit that the Army in that case went both ways and possibly the Cuban Revolution.

So....that's the only reason, when having to chose, I chose right wing for the Greek Army. Who knows...maybe the Greek Army is Communist and with Putin's help, they can send the Right Wingers to the Gulag. An empty Gulag is a sad thing!

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: Dr1Akula
I never thought a referendum, which is the quintessence of democracy, would bring so much chaos to the world...

Tsipras waited as long as he did for a number of reasons: firstly to buy more time and secondly to cover his ass. Democracy has nothing to do with it; he already HAS a mandate from the voters to say "no", there is no need for an additional referendum. But even if Tsipras really believes that the people need to be asked again - he could have organised this referendum weeks, if not months ago. So, though I sympathize with the Greek, this indeed was not called for and yes, it's clearly a provocation. And if one provokes, one might expect a response.

He didn't had a mandate to get Greece out of Euro, HE had a mandate to negotiate the payback of the dept,

He did exactly that until he came to a dead end, and been ridiculed by specific euro group members, while they gave him 24 hours to accept the most harsh deal ever put in the table, or get out.

This is humiliation not only for the PM but for all the Greek people.


And
NO he he couldn't have organized this referendum weeks, or months ago, because the banks would have default and the country would be bankrupted, No gas , no medicines, no any necessities...

Some times surprise is the best tactic to win a war.

He played the last card he has, saying if you think you can do better without us, go ahead and we will fall together!!!
His many visits in Russia, and talks with Putin, gave a big message to all these Euro group politicians who carry out the west private investment (invaders) agenda.

In Ireland's case (referendum) no cash-cut measures were taken, and not so much chaos caused~
Those in charge who bark the loudest about this, just make their original intention to dictate Greece obvious

a reply to: TonyS

Greeks already had a military far-right dictatorship, 40 years ago
But considering the current doomed situation, even the far-right nationalists agree with leaving the west and open up relations with Russia. In no way you can call those people communists, Patriotism has nothing to do with political left or right movements.

PS Today's Russia is in no way communist...

originally posted by: Dr1Akula
He didn't had a mandate to get Greece out of Euro, HE had a mandate to negotiate the payback of the dept,

In as far as I know - and that is right from the horses mouth, from a spokesperson of Syrisa - the referendum will be about agreement on higher taxes and cuts. So, it's not a "yes" or "no" against or for the EU. Syrisa does not really want to leave the EU, nor the Eurozone. But they simply see no way to pay the debts created by their previous governments without making their population suffer more. They are buying time, that's all, because they see no other options.

And NO he he couldn't have organized this referendum weeks, or months ago, because the banks would have default and the country would be bankrupted, No gas , no medicines, no any necessities...

I fail to see why that referendum should have caused banks to default a few weeks ago - it does not happen now, it would not have happened a few weeks ago either.

Some times surprise is the best tactic to win a war.

Oh, come on - we're not at war here, and the Greek can't win a non-existing war. Actually, the probably always loose, regardless what happens, and I pity them for it. However, either they come with a real plan to repay their debts - which will hurt the population even more - or they don't. In the latter case probably some type of rescue plan will be proposed by the EU: nobody wants the Greeks to leave and the Greeks don't want out either.

He played the last card he has, saying if you think you can do better without us, go ahead and we will fall together!!!

Firstly, I don't think they will leave. But even if they do, that does not mean that the EU will suddenly dissolve.

His many visits in Russia, and talks with Putin, gave a big message to all these Euro group politicians who carry out the west private investment (invaders) agenda.

Sigh. Look, I sympathise with the Greek and I actually like socialism a lot. But get real, Greece was not forced by the EU to join. Greece wanted to join. They weren't invaded either. They took the loans voluntarily, not at gunpoint. When it became clear to them what the consequences were, they suddenly turned socialist. That's not because they really are that much "into" socialism - that's because Syrisa promised things that sound great and might even work - if the neo-liberals hadn't created these huge debts first.

so, let's not go into never-never land here. Putin will not run Greece, Greece is not at war, Greece has caused the debts themselves. And they probably don't even have to repay most of these debts - but as it is now, they don't even try to figure out HOw to repay their own debts. In that context, the way the other EU nations are dealing with this is admirable. Ugh.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

In as far as I know - and that is right from the horses mouth, from a spokesperson of Syrisa - the referendum will be about agreement on higher taxes and cuts. So, it's not a "yes" or "no" against or for the EU. Syrisa does not really want to leave the EU, nor the Eurozone. But they simply see no way to pay the debts created by their previous governments without making their population suffer more. They are buying time, that's all, because they see no other options.

I wouldn't call them horses myself, but I like your way of thinking

EU officials say referendum is on euro or drachma

www.ekathimerini.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">EU officials say referendum is on euro or drachma

I fail to see why that referendum should have caused banks to default a few weeks ago - it does not happen now, it would not have happened a few weeks ago either.

Why it doesn't happen now? because the banks are closed, now imagine the banks closed for months, or with no cash because of people getting all their money back... and no support from the European bank in cash flow...

That's what I was talking about

Oh, come on - we're not at war here, and the Greek can't win a non-existing war. Actually, the probably always loose, regardless what happens, and I pity them for it. However, either they come with a real plan to repay their debts - which will hurt the population even more - or they don't. In the latter case probably some type of rescue plan will be proposed by the EU: nobody wants the Greeks to leave and the Greeks don't want out either.

I thought it was obvious I didn't literally meant an actual war, but an economic one

Actually, the probably always loose,

????

Firstly, I don't think they will leave. But even if they do, that does not mean that the EU will suddenly dissolve.

No it doesn't, not since the previous sympathetic Greek governments gave them time with austerity followed loan deals and doubled the debt since 2011, when this situation made public, they are now more prepared for a gr exit

Sigh. Look, I sympathise with the Greek and I actually like socialism a lot. But get real, Greece was not forced by the EU to join. Greece wanted to join. They weren't invaded either. They took the loans voluntarily, not at gunpoint. When it became clear to them what the consequences were, they suddenly turned socialist. That's not because they really are that much "into" socialism - that's because Syrisa promised things that sound great and might even work - if the neo-liberals hadn't created these huge debts first.

The fact that goldmans sacks helped Greece to enter Eu with corrupted politicians promising a better future inside European Union, and giving away sh!t to get elected. That says it all.
No they didn't take loans voluntary.. Greek people knew nothing about these loans... none ever asked them, they literally woke up one day owing billions that they never saw in their hands!
Corrupted politicians took big loans with which they bought mainly military weapons. provoked by NATO,
They even bought, problematic submarines from Germany, for a ridiculous amount of money, and even now Nato insists that Greece should continue to buy weapons beside the tragic economic situation.
These and many more scandals are the reason for the greek debt, that is now on the back of the people.

Finally I don't care about Syriza and their ideology , it's only few months since they took power in an already bleeding country.
None expected miracles, but everybody expects dedication and respect.

Europe is Greek and not Greece European...
No matter the currency, or economic situation, in or outside the European Union... Greece = Europe

so, let's not go into never-never land here. Putin will not run Greece, Greece is not at war, Greece has caused the debts themselves. And they probably don't even have to repay most of these debts - but as it is now, they don't even try to figure out HOw to repay their own debts. In that context, the way the other EU nations are dealing with this is admirable. Ugh

You can believe anything you like..
but in the meantime watch this...

Wolfgang Schäuble admitted the current situation of Greece was planned from the beginning
rutube.ru...

a reply to: Dr1Akula

This is from the official Syriza website:

Στο δημοψήφισμα της 5ης Ιούλη λέμε ΟΧΙ στη λιτότητα. Λέμε ΟΧΙ στα τελεσίγραφα των δανειστών. Λέμε ΟΧΙ στην κατάλυση της δημοκρατίας. Συμμετέχουμε στις αυριανές κινητοποιήσεις και στέλνουμε ισχυρό μήνυμα υπερηφάνειας, ελπίδας και αξιοπρέπειας σε Ελλάδα και Ευρώπη.

Translated: In the referendum of July 5th we say NO to austerity. We say NO to the ultimatums of lenders . We say NO to overthrow democracy . We participate in tomorrow's protests and send a strong message of pride , hope and dignity in Greece and Europe.

Please note that there is no mentioning of saying NO to Europe nor to the EU. The Greek are simply not capable of paying back their loans without making the population suffer. So, they ask their population: "would you like to suffer a bit more or not?" - and guess what the answer will be...

However, Syriza can't help the Greek much either. Sure, they could sell their country once again - this time to the Russians - but the Russians aren't philantropes either. They too would demand to be payed back - with interest. And believe me, if you fail to repay the Russians, they can be quite unpleasant - much more unpleasant than the unarmed toothless tiger the EU is. Also, the danger that the NATO would not accept this and even might see it as an attack on NATO territory is very real. NATO had a hard time accepting the re-annexation of Crimea, and that has mostly been Russian territory during its existence; Greece never was Russian, its the very cradle of European culture.

However, the debts are real and the only way to help the Greek is to either give them much more time to repay - which would make the suffer a bit less, but much, much longer - or to simply call quits on at least a part of the money they have lend.

Again, I do sympathise with the Greek, but to say that "the Greek were set up by Goldman Sachs and corrupted politicians promising them a better future" - well, nonsense. Those "currupted politicians" were Greeks and they had a choice. They chose. And only after it all went black, they suddenly discovered socialism.

Mark my words: the very same Greek will abandon socialism again as soon as they discover that socialists aren't magicians either. Which, to be honest, I would regret, as socialism may not be the best system in the world, but it is the best workable system, IMO.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

Doesn't really matters how Syriza wants to disguise it for obvious reasons,
The referendum was used to send a message to the Eurogroup,
And the message the eurogroup received was Euro or Drachma...

This ''unarmed toothless tiger'' (EU) has already caused 10000 suicides, thousands bushiness going bankrupt, 1/2 of Greeks youth unemployed, Every new child born owes 33.000 euros, paychecks of hunger (300 euros), thousands unsustainable families, harsh taxation of every necessity possible, .... etc.

There is no way to repay this debt, not by a country on it's knees
And that was the plan from the beginning,

Again, I do sympathise with the Greek, but to say that "the Greek were set up by Goldman Sachs and corrupted politicians promising them a better future" - well, nonsense.

Not nonsense at all. Syriza has already established a commission to research the debt logistically, to prove it is an illegal debt, propagated to Greece intentionally.

Those "currupted politicians" were Greeks and they had a choice. They chose.

Since when a few traitors (3 of them are already in Jail) represent the whole country?

In 5th of July we will actually see what the actual Greeks will choose...

Socialism, or any other political ideologies, are meaningless in times like these,
They are used for different private interests, and agendas, anyway,
but when your children, and your children's children lives are threatened,
all political parties, have to respect your own voice, the voice of the people.

originally posted by: MrSpad

originally posted by: mortex

originally posted by: TacticalStats
Unfortunately I don't think the current Sariza party led by Tsipras planned for this, being that they didn't fully form until 2013. They got elected on the grounds to oppose these bailouts but it seems as late as a new captain opposed to breaking speed records across the Atlantic Ocean one hour after the Titanic hit that iceberg in 1912. I hope they leave the EU and go the BRIC banks but I don't think it will help them either way. a reply to: jellyrev

They wont be going to BRICS because they are part of NATO and it's not an option.
There will be a civil war before Greece joins BRICS. Trust me on this one.

Syriza has a plan. They are mostly members of the communist party.
This is their big moment.
If you think this isn't part of the plan, the script being played out, think again.

This is all orchastrated. Nobody went into this blind or unprepared.

BRICS and NATO are not mutually exclusive. One is a trade group and one is a military alliance. Other members of NATO were floated as potential members of BRICS before the wheels fell off all the BRICS economies. BRICS however is not going to throw good money into Greece and not expect a return. And the terms they would set would be much more severe then the EU.

So you think Washington is going to accept a Greek government trying to join BRICS?
There'll be at the very least more riots and civil unrest and at worst a "regime change/colour revolution" or civil war before they let that happen.

Ah, the BRICS would set worse terms then the EU/IMF gangsters. Right. Crystal ball.

originally posted by: Dr1Akula
a reply to: ForteanOrg

Doesn't really matters how Syriza wants to disguise it for obvious reasons,
The referendum was used to send a message to the Eurogroup,
And the message the eurogroup received was Euro or Drachma...

That's a very strange interpretation of what the Syriza site says...

Inevitably there are others, with differing opinions, but Syriza - for now - is the voice of the Greek. And they do NOT say things like "Drachma or Euro", they say that they aren't able to repay their debts. If it were up to Syriza, they would gladly stay within the EU, within the Eurozone - as long as they were freed of the debt caused by the former (totally legal) government.

This ''unarmed toothless tiger'' (EU) has already caused 10000 suicides, thousands bushiness going bankrupt, 1/2 of Greeks youth unemployed, Every new child born owes 33.000 euros, paychecks of hunger (300 euros), thousands unsustainable families, harsh taxation of every necessity possible, .... etc.

I don't like it either, but no, it was not Goldman Sachs, it weren't spooky illuminati in the distance - it were the GREEK that voted for their former governments and the GREEK that accepted the terms and conditions. Only to conclude, later, that they weren't able to keep their part of the deal, up to the point they suddenly found the deal unfair, sent their government home, became socialists almost overnight and jailed their former representatives...

It is up to the GREEK to find a solution. Its quite useless to query the population once more to hear the obvious answer.

There is no way to repay this debt, not by a country on it's knees

It put itself there, my friend. You may say that it were just a handful of crooked leaders that put your country on its knees - but the Greek chose these leaders themselves. Within the rules of democracy - rules invented in Greece - the game was fair. I can't help it, it's a fact.

And that was the plan from the beginning,

Don't see shades in the dark - they aren't there. The idea of a special sect or group that rules the world is persistent, but was never proven. It's very convenient for those that fail to keep their end of the bargain: they can point to these shades and say "Look! It wasn't us, it was them!". Nonsense.

Again, the Greek created their debts. Sure enough, the banks are to blame too - they kept lending and lending - even when they fully could expect not te be payed back. But let's face it: that was on Greek request too! And hadn't the banks done so, the Greek would not have had any money in their banks for a much longer time and the Greek would have suffered even more. So, they chose between a rock and a hard place..

Not nonsense at all. Syriza has already established a commission to research the debt logistically, to prove it is an illegal debt, propagated to Greece intentionally.

Oh, come on, let's not play fools. OF COURSE Syriza would "prove" that the debt they always said to be illegal - is illegal. A duck quacks, a fish swims. Had Syriza ruled the country in 2001, they might have chosen NOT to join the EU - but they weren't in charge then. In those days the Greek very much wanted EU money and so they voted a government that got that money. Now the debt grew beyond repair, alas.

In hindsight you can have all the wisdom you needed but missed when the deed was done.

Since when a few traitors (3 of them are already in Jail) represent the whole country?

Well, since the Greek voted them into parliament, I guess.

In 5th of July we will actually see what the actual Greeks will choose...

No, we will see what the Greeks will answer to a question to which only one answer CAN be given: NO.

Socialism, or any other political ideologies, are meaningless in times like these,

Well, I somewhat agree. IMO the term "socialism" is misused by folks that don't really are socialists, but merely try to get rid of their debts. If they were real socialists, they would have immediately stopped lending money, would have given a clear signal to the banks they weren't able to repay their debts and suffered the consequences much earlier. Socialists don't go to the bank to lend money. They have all the power of the people so they make do with what they have, with what they can produce in their own country. If the Greek would really stand together, they could repay their debts AND introduce a better type of society. But as it is now, they simply will say "no" and then stare at the EU, Russia or whomever helplessly, hoping for aid. Bah.

May the Greek help themselves, like true Socialists do.

a reply to: ForteanOrg


No one is the voice of Greece except the greeks themselves

Right now there is a massive protest going on against Syriza,

These people want to say YES to this referentum, because they believe Syriza is fooling the people not saying the really issue and they are afraid a No is like saying no to Euro

The majority of Greek population says NO = Getting out of Eurozone, return to drachma
or Yes = accept the harsh deals, Stay in Euro and Eurozone

They are also massivelly more in numbers than those that protested yeasterday for NO

You see, terrorizing people through the media, has a great effect! Europe doesn't want Greece to default they are afraid, and they do everything possible to prevent it by using the media.

I never said anything about illuminati, reptilians, aliens or whatever , you are just trying to redicule my arguments,
I am a hardcore skeptic myself, but If you believe the private organizations don't manipulate your government or any government, to serve their interest then you are at least ignorant or in denial,
No they do not want to take over the world like you want it to sound like,
they want to get richer by putting their hands on a bleeding country cheap resourses!
We are not talking about ''Aliens illuminati'' here, but real and proved political corruption!

Wikileaks papers prove gold man sacks interaction,
And the commision research for the illigal debt is already accepted and supported by the United Nations ,
and commission of human rights
So it's not Just Syrizas political stance like you want it to sound like.


I am desperately trying to report the peoples voices and fears but you don't really want to listen

You have already made up your oppinion and that's totally fine, but being outside the ''dance'' -just hearing some non objective news from here and there- you can't really know what is really going on

and saying that the debt can be repayed,is at least ignorant and inhuman, It is very easy when you are not the one, that will have his life destroyed , and wasted, and give your own blood to repay that.

You have no Idea how harsh life in Greece is now. Imagine a third world country benefits.
Nowhere near what an European country should resemble
If this is what Europe wants, then NO

That is against the very principals of the Euro Union.
Eurozone was created after the 2nd World War to prevend it to happen again
Not to provoke it!

Eurozone was supposed to be the Union of people and not the Union of Banks, and a few private interests

And please don't try to redicule my arguments about all this being already planed,
I am not a consiracy theorist, the evidence is beyond clear, it's a bright sign.

This whole situation was created for investors from the west to come and buy a dirt cheap
country with cheap working slaves, that will be payed near to nothing to serve the investors.


A China inside Europe, is what the various mafia's that promote their interests through their muppet politicians want

If Europe finds that democratic, justice and moral, I don't want to belong in a mafia organism.

It's really sad for the greek citizens themselves. . They are the victims of the large amount of surplus officials and currupsy within the government.

And when they got loans from the ECB they didn't know that this was the second bailout for the banks, because half of the money they got went straight back to several banks within Europe with a very slick construction ..

I don't blame the people of Greece I blame the politicians that didn't put up a referendum to vote for one curancy as they did to all European countries. .

originally posted by: 0bserver1
It's really sad for the greek citizens themselves. . They are the victims of the large amount of surplus officials and currupsy within the government.

And when they got loans from the ECB they didn't know that this was the second bailout for the banks, because half of the money they got went straight back to several banks within Europe with a very slick construction ..

I don't blame the people of Greece I blame the politicians that didn't put up a referendum to vote for one curancy as they did to all European countries. .

More then half the money went to the banks...German and French banks. Over 80% of the "Greek bailout" in fact.
I've been saying it since the start, that they were never bailing out Greece, but bailing out the German and French banking sectors.

Greek governments mismanaged the economy for decades.
German banks gave risky loans to governments that never performed any real reforms to improve the economy.

But the media campaign has been about blaming Greece up until now.
Only NOW, when all the damage has been done, when public opinion is almost irrelevant because the damage is done, are we starting to see commentators in the media saying that the IMF and EU must share the blame. That their decisions are partly responsible for this situation.

Why the change in heart by the media? Blood sucking zionist pigs, that's why.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
weve been warning about this for a while now......And people said we were crazy ...telling everyone to look at Greece and watch......warning of a run on the banks and people pulling out their money .......its coming for Greece........

Weve also been saying that the same thing is coming for the US if things dont change.......

the usa needs a change like greece to wake the heck up

Looks like the next step will be the response to "The emergency conference call in Brussels".

www.usatoday.com...

Greece demands that they keep their 30% tax discount for remote tourist islands.