Does an education correlate with ability or opportunity

So here is what my question is... I always hear how people with a higher education will experience higher earning and better upward mobility. I agree that this is the case with very specific educations like coding, law, and medical. Obviously you can't do any of these things without a degree so those aren't the degrees I'm talking about, this is about everything else.

Does this statement apply to opportunities present to people with educations or does it apply to someones actual ability and work ethic?

a reply to: onequestion

Honestly ... they're not worth a damn on a personal level.

They tend to keep you from getting 'locked out' from opportunity, but the types of doors they open aren't worth what's on the other side ... unless you're just interested in money. The people you have to share space with on the other side of those doors will suck out your soul.

When I interview someone with education as the heavier substance of their résumé, I ask them, "If you could get those years back, would you do something different with your time?" Always fun to watch them struggle to say what I want to hear. Hilarious in fact.

originally posted by: onequestion
So here is what my question is... I always hear how people with a higher education will experience higher earning and better upward mobility. I agree that this is the case with very specific educations like coding, law, and medical. Obviously you can't do any of these things without a degree so those aren't the degrees I'm talking about, this is about everything else.

Does this statement apply to opportunities present to people with educations or does it apply to someones actual ability and work ethic?

You are a bit mistaken is you think coders and doctors are part of the elite these days - they are now just working slobs like the rest of us - maybe with a bit more in the bank. Lawyers and Finance in some cases can rise to the 1% but the majority are just working slobs as well with the delusion that they are better then the rest of us.

As to work ethic - and I assume you mean the anglo-saxon puritan work-ethic - it's always an advantage regardless of your wage level.

originally posted by: onequestion
So here is what my question is... I always hear how people with a higher education will experience higher earning and better upward mobility. I agree that this is the case with very specific educations like coding, law, and medical. Obviously you can't do any of these things without a degree so those aren't the degrees I'm talking about, this is about everything else.

Does this statement apply to opportunities present to people with educations or does it apply to someones actual ability and work ethic?

People with higher education aren't guaranteed to have more opportunities than someone with out. Of course, people who attend universities will have more opportunities due to making more connections with people. Ability and work ethic don't always mean better or more opportunities. I think it's going to be more about connections you make with other people.

Here's an article related, in a way

elitedaily.com/money/c-students-are-successful-in-life/1039028/

a reply to: onequestion

Well if you were hiring someone and had the choice between someone with experience versus someone with a higher education it would depend on what the qualifications are for the job. Some companies would prefer to take someone who has proved they can study and learn in a controlled atmosphere, they would be trainable more so than say someone who had experience and brought their own way with them.

They may want someone who is a go getter and has proved to be resilient and doesn't require much motivation or training.

Really, it depends on many factors, but thanks for asking!

a reply to: onequestion

"Does an education correlate with ability or opportunity?"

No.

I have met so many engineers and scientists with degrees up the ying-yang and they aren't worth the paper upon which their degrees are written. Closed minded lazy little twats that fit inside a box and mark out their time doing very little. Then there's the bunch that get's bought off, usually really bright, maybe too bright and then they get steered into something else like infotainment. Of course there are a few that a re real go-getters, forward thinkers that just won't shelve a problem until they have a solution, they are like a pit bull with a hockey stick in its mouth.

The same applies to people without a formal education. With employers, knowing someone has a degree tells them someone can be trained and that they might have some thinking or doing skills. It does not tell an employer that they will necessarily solve the company's problems or make them money.

Experience seems to have fallen away somewhat from the employment equation. Apparently it's better to have a pre-programmed drone than someone who can think on their feet critically.

Tell you about education, this was back in the early 80's... I once had an engineer (P.Eng) at a large contractor expect me (regional engineer for Canada for an instrumentation firm) to sign off on a 1400lb flange on a 3200lb hydrogen (99.8%) turbine reclaim line. If I had of signed off, we would have been responsible for the installation, I refused. I got in a whole load of crap, but I was given the latitude to request a sign-off from the contractor's engineer. The wanker signed off on his design and I went ahead and had his crap built. About 6 months after installation, the hydrogen line blew up the flange, did about $12 million in damage and injured 7 employees. Moral of the story; Don't listen to an educated ass that tells you to put a 1400lb flange on a 3200lb flammable gas line, use your own common sense ;-)

Cheers - Dave

Two applicants for a controller position. Equal job experience. One with a degree and one without. Guess who will get the job.

Two applicants for an administrative position in a company. One with an MBA one without. Guess who will get the job.

Where do you think Google looks for coders? On ATS?

I know so many young people that spent years and years at university racking up the diplomas and can't find work !

It seems to me that many doors are closed to you without the education, but they aren't necessarily opened with it.

But also, the americans have downplayed the value of many mechanical/manual types of jobs to an extent that most don't feel drawn to them. Artisans make a good living here, and in many cases, had no schooling- they simply went into apprenticeship early on. My son made better money as a mason then he does as a EMT- which he decided to go back to school for.

My husband makes more than the doctors he works with, and he only had one year of medical school. There might be some sorts of skills that you either have or you don't, and no amount of education will give them to you.

a reply to: onequestion

No you do not need a college degree. The main things you need our drive and motivation. There's lots of successful people without a college degree some without even a high school education. Roughly 50% of all small business owners do not have a college degree.

With enough Drive small businesses turn into big businesses.

a reply to: Phage

So does the person with the education have more of an ability

a reply to: Bluesma

It seems to me that many doors are closed to you without the education, but they aren't necessarily opened with it.

True fact. Many employers will not consider an applicant with no degree.

a reply to: onequestion

So does the person with the education have more of an ability

Not actually relevant when applying for a job.

a reply to: Phage

Herpa derp.

a reply to: onequestion

I think the answer to this question depends on what you want to do with your life. Think of life like the Bell Curve. Where you do want to fit in it?



Understand that the majority of people fall in the middle. If you are in the middle, you will probably want a college degree so you can compete against everyone else just like you. Everyone else falls to the bottom or the top. What differentiates the two? Simple. Two words - ingenuity and persistence. The world has many examples of people who became successful and powerful who never finished college. But they had those two key traits which those at the bottom of the Bell Curve did not have.

You don't need a college degree to be successful. You just need a passion and commitment.

Also remember that everyone defines "success" differently.

a reply to: CIAGypsy

You don't need a college degree to be successful. You just need a passion and commitment.

You might find that many successful people without degrees run their own businesses.

Maybe because, I don't know, they couldn't get a good enough job.

I got a job with the company I work for without any college education. I then leveled out and could go no farther without one. I signed a contract where my employer payed for half and I agreed to stay for a set amount of time. I then received the promotion I was working towards.

As others have said it depends on a lot of different factors. I didn't need my degree to be hired but I did need a degree to advance past a certain point.

originally posted by: Phage

Two applicants for a controller position. Equal job experience. One with a degree and one without. Guess who will get the job.

Well, the one who managed to compile a resume on par with the graduate's without spending all the time and money on an apparently useless education appears to be the more intelligent applicant.

Unfortunately, being the right person for the job is rarely a successful predictor of procuring gainful employment.

a reply to: NthOther

Well, the one who managed to compile a resume on par with the graduate's without spending all the time and money on an apparently useless education appears to be the more intelligent applicant.

No. But what makes you think an education is useless? Was it useless if it gets the job when a lack of a degree doesn't?

Unfortunately, being the right person for the job is rarely a successful predictor of procuring gainful employment.

Did I say otherwise?

originally posted by: Phage

No. But what makes you think an education is useless?

If the only difference between the two candidates is the piece of paper (and if we're not talking about an entry-level position where prior experience doesn't matter so much), then in this instance and in this application yes, the piece of paper is useless.

Did I say otherwise?

Nope.