The Conservative UK Election Majority - Selfish and Greedy or What Else?

a reply to: bastion

Labour do have a handful of brilliant MPs, sadly most want to be the next Blair

Labour has a secret weapon up it's sleeve, former member of the Special Forces Support Group now Labour MP Dan Jarvis.

Jarvis is affable, relaxed and the same time deeply serious about his job as an MP and the concept of public service. Some things he professes to doing – such as a ritual pause to consider his constituents every time he steps into the Commons – could sound ridiculous, yet from him they feel sincere. “He comes across as a very real, authentic person, and that’s important in modern politics,” as Rory Stewart, the Conservative MP, writer and chair of the Commons defence select committee, who has worked with Jarvis in parliament, told me.
www.newstatesman.com...

He could be a breath of fresh air.

Maybe instead of expressing your opposition to whatever party using creative art people had actually put an X in the Box of there preferred choice, the Tories may not have got that Majority.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
BS... England failed to vote Labour and that's the bottom line

Even if Scotland had voted in 59 Labour MP's, English voters decision meant the Tories would still have won..

You're missing the point. These two things are not unrelated, they are directly connected.

The votes cast would have been cast differently if it wasn't for the SNP. The Conservatives ended up gathering votes that would otherwise have gone to smaller parties, UKIP, LibDem etc. Those floating voters instead voted in the only way that would mitigate the SNP threat - in other words, voting Conservative.

Without the troll (who I don't dispute is probably smarter and more effective than the recently resigned Fungus the Bogeyman, because it's probably impossible to find someone who isn't) people wouldn't have been scared away from voting Labour or into voting Conservative.

I find it all very amusing, actually.

originally posted by: Shiloh7
However without a strong labour party none is fighting against zero hour contracts...

Which is a very good thing for a lot of people. I've been involved in situations that use zero hour contracts (both as employee and employer) and they can be an excellent tool for all involved.

They're not appropriate in all circumstances, but the people who tend to work best under them tend to be the kind of people who don't vote Labour anyway, as they all tend to pay more in tax than they get back in benefits. Why are you so keen to screw up their employment options?

a reply to: Flavian

originally posted by: Flavian

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
I believe you get the government you deserve. english people don't deserve nice things like an NHS and welfare
we deserve another 5 years of Cameron and the Conservatives

It shows how powerful fear is as a motivating factor

What absolute clap trap. Again, can we actually have some honesty in the debate please?

The NHS has a higher public satisfaction figure than ever before, apart from once (according to all surveys). There are more doctors, nurses and midwives than ever and less useless management. NHS productivity is increasing 1.5% year on year. Privatisation accounts for only 10% of NHS funding. I could go on but i think the point is pretty clear - Labour basically lied there arses off about the state of the NHS.

You fail to mention that that "once" when patient satisfaction was at a record high and higher than it is today was in 2010 just before the Conservative/Lib Dem coalition.
You also failed to mention that when broken down satisfaction with GP's as fallen and satisfaction with social care stands at 30%. Although to be honest with you I will concede that it is a bit of a moot point as patient satisfaction is not a true representation of the state of the NHS at any given time as it just judges peoples perception, mood or support for the NHS. Many of the surveys include people who haven't even accessed the NHS recently. As a mother with two children who have disabilities and who has used the NHS a lot in the last 7 years I have never been asked to participate in any patient satisfaction survey.
As a mother of children who relies quite heavily on NHS services I could debate all day about how waiting lists in my area for a child to see an occupational therapist as risen from around 16 weeks to 12 months, how funding for children's mental health services have been cut year after year since 2010 and further still again in the last 6 months leaving vulnerable children at risk, how waiting lists for children's counselling services for children in my area has risen from 6 weeks to six months and how a wait to see a paediatric consultant as risen from two months to seven/eight months.That is just the tip of the iceberg of my experiences...so forgive me if I don't need a patient satisfaction survey to know the true state of the NHS. As someone who has relied heavily on the NHS for a few years now I know from actual experience what is going on in certain area's of the NHS.
This said...this isn't a thread about the NHS so I don't wish to hijack it and go on any further and to be fair I am not bitter with the NHS and think the people, doctors and nurses do a very wonderful job under extreme pressure and difficult circumstances and I am very proud still of the NHS as an institution.
But please....don't dismiss any problems within the NHS as being Labour lies as it's an insult to many many people and families who have to live with the realities of lack of funding and cut backs to services which in many cases affect vulnerable sections of society.

originally posted by: bastion

originally posted by: stumason

originally posted by: bastion
Hopefully this will be the only election where this is the case as there's going to be a lot of very pissed off Tory voters once they read what the actual policies are (half of them leaked and it's bye, bye NHS, anyone under 25, education, universities, industry, science, technology, engineering and maths, transport etc...).

I assume that you're going to follow Paddy Ashdown's example and eat your hat in 5 years if none of this pans out? Everything you have said is just typical, ideologically driven nonsense that Labour tried (and failed) to use in the Election themselves.

originally posted by: bastion
Time to get out before the pointless, ill informed EU vote.

And the fact you think any referendum on the EU is "pointless and ill informed" betray's your contempt for the people. The election is over, the choice has been made, stop acting like a spoilt child.

Like I said they're leaked official government documents, not rumours - have a read here. This has been news for weeks.

www.bbc.co.uk...
www.independent.co.uk...
www.independent.co.uk... ml
www.telegraph.co.uk...
I'll hapilly eat my hat if it doesn't come true considering the £20bn cut from disabled and sale of over 40% of the NHS to private contractors under condems. If you don't think it's been happening, you haven't been paying attention.

Having had to study EU/EC etc.. for work I naturally have contempt for the general publics view on Europe as most people have completely minsinformed ideas on how it's set up, how many EU laws are British, how many billions we receive in aid etc...as they read newspaper guff instead of respected publications or valid studies. Do you honestly think the average voter is going to spend weeks/months educating themselves on the issue or just look for the simplest answer?

I have to keep on top of it for work too and I agree there are things within the legislation that benefit us all massively. ECHR in general and specifically article 8 are often cited as a negative by the press when it protects us equally.

Unfortunately, from everything I can tell; the framework is too complex for us to actually leave even if a referendum overwhelmingly voted in favour of an exit. I believe this is the great con the Tories and UKIP have played on the public. Technically they'll stick to their promise of giving everybody a say but whether that say will mean anything if the public 'go the wrong way' with the vote appears dubious.

I'd be interested to see your opinion on this as it's not often I get to speak to others outside of the office with any kind of educated or practical view of it.

a reply to: MagnaCarta2015

Certainly interested in it, will need to crack open a load of old textbooks to refresh my memory first; but for the moment I can't add anything other than you've already stated to be honest. Anyone who has read the UK constitution or EU rules knows that the referendum is complete nonsense as it has no way of offering the in/out option UKIP and Tories have pretended they can offer. They've just preyed on the gullible and ignorant to score cheap votes.

Completely agree about ECHR legislation too - the papers and politicians love to bring up one in a million cases and make out 'ooman rights' are a bad thing that only protect prisoners, when in reality they guarantee us the right to live and stop us being turned into slaves or killed at work through company negligence/lack of quality control.

The only way I can feasibly see a complete quit is if we agreed to cut defence, security, bank regulation, workers rights, human rights etc.. and considering the banks want to leave if we leave Europe then UK GDP would be slashed by 8 - 10%- so in precis we'd be up a creek without a paddle, boat or life jacket and open to invasion.

The ammount of poor education and awareness about the infrastructure is an embarrassment to democracy.

When even the Torygraph (as eurosceptic as you can get) are saying the referendum is stupid and the country would be destroyed by Russia if we implemented all the changes required to leave, it's obvious something very, very wrong is going on.

'Europe has changed since a UK referendum was proposed by David Cameron last year. We now face the most serious security situation in Europe since the Second World War: Russia has annexed another country’s territory and is using military force to destabilise its neighbour. This is old-fashioned power politics that must not be allowed to succeed in Europe. We have seen the EU, long known for a lack of strength in foreign policy, acting with remarkable resolve. Norway has aligned itself with the EU position.'

www.telegraph.co.uk...

As for the Labour/SNP situation. Labour wouldn't have stood a chance even if all of scotland voted Labour - the vast majority of England voted Tory and with or without the extra seats Labour would still have been unable to form any coalition as they had one of, if not the, worst election results on record. Will be interesting to see how Scotland prospers while England burns over the next few years.

a reply to: bastion

It does not matter what arrogant patronizing people like you think/


People want a say in a EU referendum.

In a democracy we are entailed to a vote!

Dont like it? Piss off to Germany.

originally posted by: EvillerBob

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
BS... England failed to vote Labour and that's the bottom line

Even if Scotland had voted in 59 Labour MP's, English voters decision meant the Tories would still have won..

You're missing the point. These two things are not unrelated, they are directly connected.

The votes cast would have been cast differently if it wasn't for the SNP. The Conservatives ended up gathering votes that would otherwise have gone to smaller parties, UKIP, LibDem etc. Those floating voters instead voted in the only way that would mitigate the SNP threat - in other words, voting Conservative.

Without the troll (who I don't dispute is probably smarter and more effective than the recently resigned Fungus the Bogeyman, because it's probably impossible to find someone who isn't) people wouldn't have been scared away from voting Labour or into voting Conservative.

I find it all very amusing, actually.

Lets talk about the 4 million+ votes wasted on UKIP...no doubt those votes by and large were from the English working class who would have supported Labour in the past...Still want to blame SNP's 1.4 million votes for England's Failure. ?

UKIP are nothing but a bunch of 3rd rate politicians, and i use the term politician lightly here, very lightly. Set up by a failed Tory to divide and conquer the working classes. Worked a treat. England's Working class fell for it hook, line and sinker to the tune of 4 Million possible Labour votes wasted.
As for the wee woman from Glasgow scaring the s### out of the English,.Ahahahahaha....Must have been her massive Sturdy frame and the lightning bolts shooting from her arse that did it...

ps, Who is Fungus the Bogeyman..? I like that. lol

a reply to: crazyewok

You don't need to take my word for it, the heads of business, defence, intelligence services etc... all agree. Call me arrogant and patronising if you want but I have had to research this stuff in depth for years and worked with constitutional experts etc.. so I think I've earned my right to have a say on the matter.

The trouble with democracy is all the stupid people get to vote and no one is going to read through the 20,000+ pages of EU framework required to have an informed vote on the issue - they'll just lap up whatever rubbish Murdoch prints. That's hardly a democratic alternative.

originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: crazyewok

You don't need to take my word for it, the heads of business, defence, intelligence services etc... all agree.

And I still want my #ing say!

originally posted by: bastion
That's hardly a democratic alternative.

And denying people a voice is?

a reply to: crazyewok

How are we denied? We vote for politicians to represent us and vote on our behalf both in the UK and Europe, that's how democracy works. There's nothing to stop you lobbying your MP post election on the isssue for every single day for five years. Spending millions on a referendum that cannot offer the result it claims to offer is pure smoke and mirrors, not a valid referendum or democracy. An 'x' in a box is only a minutia of democratic rights.

If we had a referrendum for every act of parliament the country would be bankrupt and nothing would ever get done.

originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: crazyewok

How are we denied? We vote for politicians to represent us and vote on our behalf, that's how democracy works. Spending millions on a referendum that cannot offer the result it claims to offer is pure smoke and mirrors, not a valid referendum or democracy.

Yeah and the country voted in the conservatives who representatives offer a referendum.

Dont like it clear off to a non democratic country like North Korea, you wont have worry about votes and ignorant voters there,

The pubic want its say! You patronizing little thoughts are irrelevant!

Its the people choose, and if you dont like it start on the yes campaign. Don't deny the rest of us a voice because you are a elitist and think your better than everyone and therefore you views are the only way.

Yeah they did so well keeping that promise last time round...

So knowing how democracy works means I want to move to North Korea??? Is this ATS or the Daily Mail comments section.

ifyoulikeitsomuchwhydontyougolivethere.com...

originally posted by: bastion
Yeah they did so well keeping that promise last time round...

So knowing how democracy works means I want to move to North Korea??? Is this ATS or the Daily Mail comments section.

ifyoulikeitsomuchwhydontyougolivethere.com...

No denying the people a voice about the EU when they have clearly stated they want one is Anti Democratic.


People voted in representative that said we will get that voice. Thats democracy.


Saying people are too dumb to have a voice on this issue and our opinion should go ignored? Thats elitist tyranny.

Middle England and the South West allowed Conservatives to gain a majority at the expense of the Lib Dems.

The Lib Dems were punished for going against nearly everything they stood for, for what? 5 years of Nick Clegg or some other Lib Dem junior minister attempting to justify their support for an attack on the poor. The very people they were supposed to be representing.

Labour are nowhere near Left enough for my liking and haven't been since the mid 1990's.

The Tories did a good job of dividing the country and blaming the poor and vulnerable for the banking crash. The problem with the U.K, most people are conservative (with a small c) and hate change. They were too embarrassed to admit they were going to vote Conservative and that's why the polls in the run up did not reflect the actual result.

I see Fox Hunting is back on the agenda, that's a really important issue that has to be dealt with immediately.

originally posted by: EvillerBobI've been involved in situations that use zero hour contracts (both as employee and employer) and they can be an excellent tool for all involved.

ever been ON a zero hours contract yourself?

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

I am neither suprised of particularly dissapointed in the outcome of the elections.

Fox hunting and a possible change in the law however is something that can be dealt with in great numbers at a future date along with GM crops and a few other little issues that will arise over the next few years.

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978

I see Fox Hunting is back on the agenda, that's a really important issue that has to be dealt with immediately.

Nothing like getting priorities right. Give them enough time and they'll introduce hunting the sick and disabled who refuse to die of starvation.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: bastion
Yeah they did so well keeping that promise last time round...

So knowing how democracy works means I want to move to North Korea??? Is this ATS or the Daily Mail comments section.

ifyoulikeitsomuchwhydontyougolivethere.com...

No denying the people a voice about the EU when they have clearly stated they want one is Anti Democratic.


People voted in representative that said we will get that voice. Thats democracy.


Saying people are too dumb to have a voice on this issue and our opinion should go ignored? Thats elitist tyranny.

Just as it was when Cameron denied them a vote last time despite promising one, and Thatcher denied one when signing up and hardly any political party in the last 70 years has acknowledged their manifesto pledges.

I'm elitist and not ashamed to say it - when racism and homophobia were made illegal in the UK the public went crazy, expecially the Tories who had the 'If you want a 'n-word' for a neighbour, vote labour' campaign slogan at the time. But it was undoubtedly a change for the better, don't you agree? Back in those days polticians had a clear vision for the future as they knew what was good for the people and the country, now they're just middle-managers of everyday life with little to no say or influence.