Stupid Design - Dr. Tyson makes some good points...

Dr. Tysons key notes from TAM6 conference become classic, and while he made many good points, from alien abductions, UFO sightings to 13th floor craze, one of his most remarkable and classical performance was contrary to intelligent design - stupid design.

Basically, Dr. Tyson divided this part of presentation in 3 major categories: Humans, Earth and Universe.

Starting with Humans, he points everything that makes us humans imperfect or for lack of better term - stupid design product.

Next is 'Earth', witch while providing everything life needs also kills us in huge numbers and finishes it with 'Universe', where there is always possibility that supernova might fly by and destroy ozone layer and with that kill all life on earth. In short, looks like everything is build and made to kill us. To try to prove Intelligent Design, ID folks should really focus on explaining all of this bad design pointed by Dr. Tyson.

This wholepresentation is worth watching, but if you click links above, you can see parts connected to this topic.

So, after watching this again, I was wondering how our ID friends react to this. If you believe in ID, could we agree that architect made quite few major mistakes/bad design or as Dr. Tyson would say - Stupid Design?!

Dr. Tyson's presentation is available here:



I strongly suggest everyone to watch this video, as it has some really good points and can broaden your understanding of history and science.

I've always thought the human body was poorly "designed". Take pain for example : Yes, it's needed to alert you to damage being done, but we should be able to shut it off. It can and will cripple you to the point that you can't survive. Damaging one part of the body should not effect the rest to that point. Useless organs are next. Why do we need an appendix? Or tonsils? We are absurdly easy to kill and lack any sort of natural self defense. No claws or suitable teeth to fight with, just a big ol' brain that tells us to pick up a rock or stick to beat'em over the head with. But, I guess it works.

a reply to: SuperFrog

Nice thread. I had just brought up the concept of haphazard development making god's direct hand in things unlikely.

99.9999999% (probably greater than that tbh) of the universe is lethal to humans. Yeah. The universe was TOTALLY designed for us...

while I'm not a fan of Tyson...I'd agree that as humans...we are not perfectly designed..nor is Earth perfectly designed for human life. Not by far...

The universe doesnt even come close to being perfectly designed...to suit human needs.

All these things are rather self evident.

Pretty egocentric to assume that the creator would design a universe that we could control...

You're trying to conflate human suffering, which is an imperfection, but usually balanced out as with physics equal & opposite reactions & every action having a reaction etceteraaaaa...


I'm equally surprised at a well acclaimed physicist trying to conflate human issues with galactic/universal issues...



Why would the universe have morals and ethics...

Why would the universe be seen as imperfect just because galaxies collide?



It's pretty self-centred to think that humans could ever comprehend why that happens?





Here's a theory...
Kinda Darwinian...


Galaxies collide because they're too slow to outrun the incoming galaxy that collided with it...

Survival of the fittest on a cosmic scale...


Alas, I'm philosophising, or I'm talking s#...
Whichever takes your fancy

If intelligent designers know what's going to unfold over time then most of his points are unfounded. One could design humans to only exist for a finite amount of time also. Our purpose for being in their design may be beyond our knowledge. We could be here to change Earth's atmosphere so some other life form can evolve...we may only be a cog in the wheel.

As Christians would (and should) point out, God did design everything perfect. The Earth and Man. In the Garden of Eden. It wasn't until sin occurred and man was cursed and kicked out of the Garden that all things began down the path of deterioration.

If you don't believe the Bible then this won't mean anything to you. The Bible does not say or give any indication how long between creation and the original sin. Could have been one day, one week, or one hundred million years. And God had the forbidden tree there so man did have a choice. He did not desire mindless robots. Even the angels have a choice. I could go on for a while on this topic but the point is God did create everything perfect and everyone has a choice whether to believe and follow Him or not.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Galaxies collide because the gravity from each of them pulls them together not because one outran the other.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Nice theory


Can't wait for them to prove it.



I said what I said due to taking into account the fact that the Universe is expanding...
Something to do with velocity when leaving the centre.


What can I say I enjoy speculation

a reply to: jjkenobi

The garden of eden exists on earth, if it even existed. It also could only exist AFTER humans evolved on the planet because it had humans in it. That is a relatively SMALL part of the universe and a relatively SMALL chunk of time to operate in. According to you, imperfection in the ENTIRE universe all started no more than a few hundred thousand years ago at the most. Meanwhile, the universe is billions of years old. That isn't even 1% of the time the universe has been here.

Well if it's intelligent design why do men have nipples?

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Nice theory

Can't wait for them to prove it.

The theory of Gravity? You can't wait for them to prove that things are attracted to each other?

I said what I said due to taking into account the fact that the Universe is expanding...
Something to do with velocity when leaving the centre.


What can I say I enjoy speculation

Speculation is good, but you should at least take into account knowns when considering the unknown. There is no point in me speculating that fire breathing dragons could exist on earth, because I am aware of the knowns that say that such a thing would be a physical impossibility on this planet.

a reply to: SuperFrog

Starting with Humans, he points everything that makes us humans imperfect or for lack of better term - stupid design product.

Pretty arrogant, humans are alive, they replicate, they heal, they have DNA, a womb and cell division.

Nothing stupid about that.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

The theory of Gravity? You can't wait for them to prove that things are attracted to each other?

No my friend I didn't elaborate well enough...

I'm well aware how Gravity works within galaxies, & on land and I like how it keeps me grounded (terrible pun intended)



I'm more speculating on how Gravity works between the space where Galaxies haven't met...
The void so to speak...

O O

The first O is the Milky Way, the second O is Andromeda...

The space in between, where no man or machine has ever been, is where I like to speculate.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Do you have something against the Cosmological Principle?

If we can prove that two objects in the void of space between earth and the moon attract, then there should be no reason to say that the same wouldn't be true between two galaxies.

originally posted by: damwel
Well if it's intelligent design why do men have nipples?

because all men started out as females...before leaving the womb i mean.

intelligent design has nothing to do with it.

Reasonably is a quaint and welcomed friend in most, if not all conversations .To have the intellectual capability to drill down into the nuisances is a craft not many have the ability to do . (me) ..So it is great when one can find the oposing voice that would take the time to review ...William Lane Craig is such a voice from the other side of reasonable debate and thought that stands out for me . " Exposing Neil deGrasse Tyson on God (Part 1) | William Lane Craig, PhD "

a reply to: TzarChasm

Oh my word I just learned something new.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Do you have something against the Cosmological Principle?

If we can prove that two objects in the void of space between earth and the moon, then there should be no reason to say that the same wouldn't be true between two galaxies.

That's if the make up of space between Earth & the Moon is the same as the space between Galaxies.


I have nothing against it, per se...

But like I said, can't wait until they can prove it.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Whole debate about creationism in classroom started from creationist trying to include their belief in classroom and here Dr. Craig is unable to see that as issue, actually he goes and negates this even exists?!

Don't you see that he manipulates facts, among other things??

He should just ask Wendy Wright what she is working on for past 15-20 years and try to inform himself a bit, then answer the same question.