Elon Musk Debuts the Tesla Powerwall

a reply to: RickyD

I think the most important part about this really is that it paves the way for better and more advanced technologies.

Elon Musk is in a unique position in this regard. I'm not sure there are too many other people or companies that could successfully open this door as wide as Musk.

It will still take a while, but this type of thing may allow small organizations with advanced technology and ideas to enter the marketplace without compromise.

I feel that aspect far outweighs the individual product. I can't say I am at all interested in the Powerwall, but I am keeping my eyes open in the hopes this changes the market itself.

a reply to: Mandroid7

When you look at it from the long view...and with tech you need too...

Creating scalable small tech that changes everyday household living is most likely one of the most solid long term investments possible.

It's like a few arse holes with apple perfect phones only and everyone else with nothing vs selling to humanity an imperfect but marvellous device, the numbers won't lie.

He is wise to turn his thinking to funding these types of systems as they fund him with gross profit as well as pay for a testing bed at the same time.

It's funny but it seems the masses would prefer a self generated power system at low to no cost while paying through the nose for accesseries to run on it....kind of like the first days of the computer age.....

Really cool to watch and see....that I live in these times!

Thanks for the video, cheers!

a reply to: RickyD

Don't get me wrong, i have plenty of scepticism about him and any corporation trying to act like they want to help you especially the gov't.

The open source patents I think is great but I'm not sure the angle on that one just yet ,since I haven't researched it much but I'm sure there is one. From the top of my head I would say most likely he has investments in other industries that will likely benefit from those patents being released.

The Battery tech , I think that could be a good thing for the consumer not because he wants to help , but because Tesla is going to be a direct benefactor of better and cheaper batteries.

But all in all , we might be getting some benefit from this because it might cause some oligopolies to clash with each other, which will lead to competition, which will lead to good things for consumers. At the oligopoly level is the only place we really have competition where the consumer wins.

a reply to: interupt42

Current battery tech now available at 10kWh is in the 10K USD range. This is Oligarchy created and distributed tech. See this battery-university page for reference: batteryuniversity.com...

Tesla technology is offering a 1/3rd price deal for a standardized scalable off the shelf pack.

I see no legitimate downside to this effort.

a reply to: machineintelligence

On second pass these packs X2 would produce the same storage bank: www.alibaba.com...

Less than $600 for equal storage as the Tesla 10K guaranteed delivery of 1000 Piece/Pieces per Month. I think the Chinese are going to eat into Tesla orders for these babies.

Edit to add: I might be quite wrong and the number of these packs to be equal would be 3X packs or $900 top side wholesale price range still a lot cheaper. Also delivery is within 25days after getting 30% deposit not 3-4 months for a Tesla pack.

a reply to: ugmold

PowerBall!

2nd

a reply to: interupt42

Have you read the article I linked...there are others making batteries like this even better at the moment as mentioned a company out of Germany is currently making 10k cycle battery's instead of the 5k teslas.

a reply to: RickyD

No not yet haven't had a chance, but I wouldn't be surprised.

It would be interesting to see if the others used parts of the patent that Tesla owned and publicly released.

a reply to: interupt42

To me that would be the only good thing to come of this. As I read around about his other endeavors he owns PayPal which is a company I despise and SolarCity which is trying to lease this equipment to its customers for a not so awesome bill per KW/h used. I forget ATM cause I'm on my mobile but they explained it a bit in the article and I looked at the Tesla forums a bit too. Its just one of those things that bugs me cause he isn't genuine in my opinion...he's working his angle just like everyone who makes as much money as him. If it was for us it would be nonprofit right?

a reply to: RickyD

Ricky is it REALLY your position that there are no businesses turning a profit in the whole world that are not also making the world a better place? That's a wildly cynical point of view if it is... and you are welcome to it!

I happen to live in an off-the-grid home (and before people get excited, by that I mean my home is not connected to any services grid at all). When one makes this choice you don't expect not to make adjustments. You don't, for example, expect to have an electrical range. You trade that in for a gas one. That type of thing. So the "average" home's electrical useage figures are no longer applicable. You make choices that vastly limit the demand-side of your electricity. I have a wonderful quality of life on less that 1200 kWh per year. So my point is this: if you are going to just want to do everything as you always have without any adjustments and without rethinking anything then you are not a suitable candidate for off-the-grid. It's like buying a Prius and complaining that it doesn't perform like a V8.

Now, in my set up I have old-fashioned lead-acid batteries. Pretty much golf-cart batteries. They are not cheap, they don't last long (5 to 8 years depending on how you use them) and you have to nurse them to get longevity. You can't run them FLAT or you damage them irreparably. I haven't run all the numbers on this offering from Tesla but on the face of it it seems like an awesome deal. It seems like good value for a newer, superior technology. I'll check it over VERY carefully before I put my money down, of course, but I can certainly foresee the possibility of a conversion from ancient, ancient lead-acid technology to this newer one might wee be on the cards for my household.

One of the coolest technologies and advancements in batteries coming out is the aluminum ion battery. Musk recently tweeted about that technology, kind of poo pooing it. Probably because of his lithium battery pack for homes.
We are on the cusp of reducing our reliance on the traditional power grid system for homes. I predict a massive labor movement that removes existing power lines that plague many of our scenic views in America. Lets put our new found American brothers from our southern borders to work.

a reply to: RickyD

The thing is though, it's now cheaper and more efficient than it was a year ago. Last years innovations were cheaper and more efficient than they were five years ago. That's how these things go. The total cost with this battery for a solar system to provide enough power to the average home is now way cheaper and more attainable to average home owners than before. It's another stepping stone, one that I think brings us much closer to the opposite shore, especially considering how Tesla keeps innovating on top of itself.

When I leave the Army I'm going to work for Tesla in he Nevada facility.

It is my goal to not just work for Tesla, but help them spread their tech across the face of the Earth.

Meh, it is what it is. He bugs me for the reasons I stated, but I can totally be on board with the idea. Don't get me wrong I've lived off the grid completely probably longer than most people you'll meet. Just across the road from the earth ship community in Taos NM. Was fun and I really enjoyed the experience. However to get the power we need to live as we do now your looking at 40-50k easy and that problem has yet to be addressed or we would be using the solar tech a whole lot more.

a reply to: ugmold

This is OK, but you need the .10 cent per watt solar panels that they promised, how many years ago.

And they still cost at least $2.50 per watt. Watts up?

a reply to: RickyD

I used to be a massive skeptic of alternative energy (you can see this via my post history), but as time goes on I get more and more optimistic. The Tesla battery is not really a final product, it's just the beginning of what is possible with batteries. I would consider it similar to MP3 players before the iPod.

- Since 2010, the cost of Lithium Ion batteries has been approximately halved. This trend has not stopped and will continue to at least 2020, Elon Musk has already said the utlity scale battery will cost sold for around $250/kWh. The Tesla Gigafactory (opening in 2016/2017) is supposed to cut costs by 30% alone. So I would be expecting large price cuts and improvements by 2020 to this product.

- Electricity rates vary depending on location. Texas is cheap. One of the biggest markets for Tesla will be in California, which has much more expensive electricity. Here a 400 MWh battery for utility scale grid storage is already being built. In Australia I am paying around 30c/kWh.

- Solar power is also getting cheaper. It is already cheaper than the grid in many places, especially places with a lot of sun. At the moment solar commonly relies on something called "net-metering" - where you are billing for your net electricity production or consumption. This is effectively a subsidy since the cost of electricity is from not only the cost of production, but transmission and distribution as well, and since rooftop solar tends to be sold back to the grid rather than used locally, the effect is electricity is being sold back to the grid at retail prices. If net-metering ends (which I believe is inevitable) then the economics will change, it will no longer be preferable to sell as much solar power back to the grid as possible, instead it will become more economic to use as much solar generation locally as possible. The latter almost requires energy storage to work. Hence solar + storage.

I don't mean to downplay the battery itself as it is a step forward (even if it is kind of outdated tech and can be quite dangerous)

Nothing outdated about the batteries that Tesla uses. The cells themselves effectively have the highest volumetric and specific energy density of anything out there. Most other statistics are also very good. High energy density is important, because it means the system can become smaller and lighter, with less materials used and therefore lower cost.

Hes certainly is the man with the daring steps in the right way to confront the environmentalists , oil companies and governments ,to think about new ways for milking the cow on a different way .

If we in the near future are going to create our own power and heating supply the governments and oil companies are really going to loose a lot of income...

He should work on a self sufficient central heating system to close the circle...

I think my favorite thing about Musk is that he keeps his patents open source. It shows a certain level of dedication to forego the possible profits there. This would allow a competitive market to start driving the prices down. The Tesla car isn't particularly affordable, but these batteries, in the long-term, could be for many. Sounds better than a gas powered generator. They can be used in conjunction with the grid as well, so folks could slowly transition. Folks could build their own solar panels though, it's the batteries that need more work so hopefully this is a step in the right direction. Lithium batteries aren't known for their safety, last I knew.

a reply to: hearows

Tesla is planning and designing a vehicle in the $20-$30000 price range.

I will probably own a Tesla vehicle at some point. I intend on going off the grid entirely and having a Tesla vehicle will go a long way toward making that a reality for me.

I work in the tech industry and I think they may have approached this the wrong way. They are using the Tesla name as a marketing ploy to generate new customers for a technology that currently existed. As others have suggested, making it pretty and "seem" simple is definitely a way to generate more interest but they really missed out on what could have really helped to sell this which is the "internet of things". Making this product manageable and monitorable from a smart phone or tablet, allowing you to see your "savings" at a glance will garner more attention than just telling the world something we already know... we need to get away from fossil fuels. When they get this and solar technology which can capture more spectrum of light down to a reasonable cost I think more people will be on board.

I look at it like this:
I have a 3700 Square Foot House
Last year I used 37,104 KWH of electricity
It cost 10.25 cents per KWH

Thats roughly $4,000.00 a year on power.

If they make the solar/battery combo such that it lasts 5 years and costs less than $20,000.00 and can meet my consumption needs... Im in.

All that said.... the attention this is getting is a good thing... it will bring out competition and drive the cost down.