UFO's - Why do we assume Aliens when Human Origin is more plausible?

a reply to: In4ormant

It's okay. I suppose you were right to question my point of view...

a reply to: engineercutout

I could have done so in a more civil way.

originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: MysterX
So how does your 'man made' theory explain the wealth of evidence available to research (most of it available online) that shows UFO's have been around and seen by people throughout the historical record, obviously before Human flight had even been dreamt of?

I have yet to see any newspaper reports from before the 1940's of any UFO sighting.

If you can produce one I would appreciate it.

NICAP has a lot of reports from 1920-1929, where witnesses describe seeing the same ships witnesses see today, primarily flying discs, and cylinders. Many of the reports are from America, but many of them are from Europe and South America.

You can also find several newspaper reports of sightings from the airship wave of the 1880s. Not hard to find.

originally posted by: Scdfa

originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: MysterX
So how does your 'man made' theory explain the wealth of evidence available to research (most of it available online) that shows UFO's have been around and seen by people throughout the historical record, obviously before Human flight had even been dreamt of?

I have yet to see any newspaper reports from before the 1940's of any UFO sighting.

If you can produce one I would appreciate it.

NICAP has a lot of reports from 1920-1929, where witnesses describe seeing the same ships witnesses see today, primarily flying discs, and cylinders. Many of the reports are from America, but many of them are from Europe and South America.

You can also find several newspaper reports of sightings from the airship wave of the 1880s. Not hard to find.

Don't see many like this one these days:

March 26, 1897; Sioux City, Iowa
Approximate date. Robert Hibnight bard was caught by an anchor dropped from an unknown flying machine 22 km north of the town. He was dragged over 10 m and fell as his clothes were torn. (Magonia #11, FSR 66, 4)

Harte

a reply to: Harte

Or he got drunk and stumbled off and that's the story he told so his wife wouldn't hit him with the shovel. Could go either way I suppose.

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: In4ormant
a reply to: wmd_2008

Nice pic, but not the same thing. Jades pic has no source beam as your does. I get your point none the less.

Those aren't source beams... they are lines added to show how the reflections correspond to ground lights and cross through optical center.

Here's the original non-cropped version for reference:



I suppose it could be a reflection artifact of any number of out of focus lights on the ground. One question would be why only one?

originally posted by: Scdfa
You can also find several newspaper reports of sightings from the airship wave of the 1880s. Not hard to find.

Airships are not likely to be something unearthly. We had airships during the airship wave.

Neither are "mystery planes" or "ghost rockets", we had airplanes and small rockets during those years too.

Do you honestly think someone with technology to travel the massive distances between the stars would fly around in airships, planes and rockets?

Sounds more like Flash Gordon than reality.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Scdfa
You can also find several newspaper reports of sightings from the airship wave of the 1880s. Not hard to find.

Airships are not likely to be something unearthly. We had airships during the airship wave.

Neither are "mystery planes" or "ghost rockets", we had airplanes and small rockets during those years too.

Do you honestly think someone with technology to travel the massive distances between the stars would fly around in airships, planes and rockets?

Sounds more like Flash Gordon than reality.

Of course they would, if they wanted to do a little drunk guy fishing with big ole hooks.

Harte

a reply to: Harte

Coulda been a Pterodactyl

originally posted by: In4ormant
a reply to: Harte

Coulda been a Pterodactyl

Doubtful.

IIRC, they fished with their beaks, not big ole hooks on ropes.

Harte

a reply to: Harte

Ummmm. It was the Sky Ships and Storm Wizards!!!!

mysteriousuniverse.org...

a reply to: JadeStar

Do you honestly think someone with technology to travel the massive distances between the stars would fly around in airships, planes and rockets?

Actually, Jade, "airships", "mystery planes", "foo fighters" and "ghost rockets" were just words that people used at that time to describe the completely unfamiliar vehicles they were witnessing. So, it's highly inaccurate of you to take those terms literally. You might as well ask if they would fly around in "foo".

The bigger question is, why do you think you understand what "someone with technology to travel the massive distances between the stars" would do?

It's funny, it's always the people who deny aliens are here, that claim to know so much about them.

I know they're real, but I certainly don't understand they way they think, I wouldn't even hazard a guess about what they would or wouldn't do, or why.

These beings are alien in every way, not just in where they come from.

You should not expect aliens to act according to human psychology, but rather, examine the actions of aliens to better understand alien psychology.

Foo make perfect sense........wasnt he a cartoon character of the time?

Actually "Jeep" is a mystery, where did they dig that one up?.

Course, the English had names for the enemy too......Borsch, Hun, Jerry etc.

Plenty of madeup names in those days, me ol china plate. (the Beu'ee of the English language. .

a reply to: gort51

Actually "Jeep" is a mystery, where did they dig that one up?.

Jeep = G.P., General Purpose vehicle.

"influenced by ‘Eugene the Jeep,’ a creature of great resourcefulness and power represented in the Popeye comic strip".

Well I waded through the 6 pages here as the original query being. "UFO's - Why do we assume Aliens when Human Origin is more plausible?"

I'm surprised that no one went back to the 1500's report of "a battle in the skies" by unknown craft. It's one of my favorites and though they had no cameras back then, people not only reported it, but artist attempted wood-cut engravings of what was seen.

UFO 'battle' over Nuremberg, Germany in 1561
"At sunrise on the 14th April 1561, the citizens of Nuremberg beheld "A very frightful spectacle." The sky appeared to fill with cylindrical objects from which red, black, orange and blue white disks and globes emerged. Crosses and tubes resembling cannon barrels also appeared whereupon the objects promptly "began to fight one another." This event is depicted in a famous 16th century woodcut by Hans Glaser.



Also the Air Battle over Basel, Switzerland in 1566

"A 16th century woodcutting depicts a scene in which dark spheres were witnessed hovering over the town of Basel, Switzerland in 1566.

On August 7, 1566, at dawn, many citizens of Basel (Switzerland), frightened, saw during several hours the black spheres involved in a formidable aerial battle, invading the sky of their city: "at the time when the sun rose, one saw many large black balls which moved at high speed in the air towards the sun, then made half-turns, banging one against the others as if they were fighting a battle out a combat, a great number of them became red and igneous, thereafter they were consumed and died out," wrote Samuel Coccius, the student in "crowned writings and liberal arts" who consigned the strange events in the city's gazette.

a reply to: JohnnyAnonymous

I'm no expert on history but don't we have pictures of dragons and stories of wizards then too?

originally posted by: In4ormant
a reply to: JohnnyAnonymous

I'm no expert on history but don't we have pictures of dragons and stories of wizards then too?

This seems like an actual event, however stylized the depiction. Perhaps a "retelling" of the same event, or two occurrences of the same phenomenon in the same general area. The drawings are very similar and do not show dragons and such... more as if they were trying to draw something with which they were completely unfamiliar.

My guess would be some sort of rare local natural phenomenon.

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: In4ormant

a reply to: JohnnyAnonymous



I'm no expert on history but don't we have pictures of dragons and stories of wizards then too?

This seems like an actual event, however stylized the depiction. Perhaps a "retelling" of the same event, or two occurrences of the same phenomenon in the same general area. The drawings are very similar and do not show dragons and such... more as if they were trying to draw something with which they were completely unfamiliar.



My guess would be some sort of rare local natural phenomenon.

The artist did not witness any of the phenomenon, if that's what it was.

Glaser made the art a couple of years later.

He made several other very similar pieces concerning several other townships of the time.

His accompanying text is all about going to hell if you don't repent.

Pretty fishy if you ask me.

Harte

a reply to: Harte

Pretty fishy if you ask me.

There really isn't one thing that looks like a fish there.

originally posted by: gort51
Foo make perfect sense........wasnt he a cartoon character of the time?

Actually "Jeep" is a mystery, where did they dig that one up?.

Course, the English had names for the enemy too......Borsch, Hun, Jerry etc.

Plenty of madeup names in those days, me ol china plate. (the Beu'ee of the English language.

.

Honestly, gort, you can be such a hun sometimes...nah, nah, just kidding

Seriously, though, the Foo Fighters were these orb type UFO's, usually smaller than a man by the viewers' approximations(although a few larger ones were seen), that would fly up next to allied aircraft(usually bombers) and somehow fry their navigation and communications equipment, then zip away before they could be shot down. None were ever "officially" shot down or captured, if I remember correctly, so it largely remained a mystery at the time. Then some years later a researcher (Cook? someone please correct me if I'm wrong here) came along theorizing that the Foo Fighters were a sort of VTOL type jet craft that were a Nazi secret weapon. Like a ring with small jet engines all around the rim. The theory was that most of them were remote controlled, and that their only real attack was frying instruments, although it was theorized that there might have been a few larger ones that were actually manned as well. I don't think that explanation was ever confirmed, but it was an interesting theory.