The Enemies of Compassion

I watched a TED talk by Joan Halifax about compassion, and she listed 'enemies of compassion' as:

1. Pity
2. Moral outrage
3. Fear
4. Attachment to outcomes



And as a bonus, here is another TED talk about self-compassion as an alternative to self-esteem.



👣

I'm not even going to bother to watch it, honestly, for this reason. Anyone who ever tells me that PITY is a BAD thing is a LIAR. PERIOD.

simply because Pity is the KID SISTER of Compassion, and is not an evil thing. That is my own childish understanding. Why do we take all the emotions and say they are negative? Why is it supposed to be so damn wrong to feel something for another human being..or another being period? Why is it wrong to want to be INVOLVED and CARE???

I am sick to death in my very soul of 'non' attachment!!!

sick of it. ATTACHMENT IS NOT A BAD THING!

And I know ONE THING. If we had MORE 'MORAL OUTRAGE' in THIS world, there would be LESS suffering in it! But to 'tune out' is soooo much 'better'. THAT'S A LIE.

a reply to: BlueMule

fear comes from loss, If you feel you have nothing to lose. Then there is no fear.

Courage can overcome fear tho, Knowing you have everything to lose but are force into a situation where you must overcome the knowledge of loss because losing isn't an option is also very important.

Her benevolence is in the right place but she needs to eat more fortune cookies for points in wisdom.

Pity is as circumstancial as anything else. Pity is needed to show compassion for those who don't feel pity for all who have the ability to suffer. Which is everyone.

Do i pity the human race? Yes i do. Because a huge majority of us feel pretty lost without a sense of direction. This comes from freedom. And we arn't given a path by *God* directly. Because this is what freedom is, This is what freedom feels like, you are born, you live you experience then you die. And if someone feels bad about that so be it. It's freedom. No one is forcing you to live forever and into servitude yet. Do i have compassion for those that are suffering. Absolutely, of course circumstancial. Do i feel pity for those who comment evil and suffer themselves because of consiquences? to a degree yes i pity they chose a life that lead to such outcomes. But again, Its freedom.
Do i pity people who withold other peoples freedoms? Not really no. In fact, unless the held individual is a threat to himself, other people or the enviroment i kinda wish every single person who with-holds our freedoms to act benevolent would be subjected to the most brutal terror and distress every psychological horror fathomable to existance.

Because impeding on anothers ability to generate compassionate action deserves the exact opposite done to them. Period.

Oh and fear, without fear. No one would be compassionate at all.

One needs to fear the outcome of those they pity in order to be compassionate. If an employer of tree planting didn't fear for the homeless mans life, if he/she had the ability to house such an individual by providing them with a job. Why would they give such help? I mean without greed theres nothing holding them back from doing it.

Because greed is all of those combined in the uncompassionate sense.

Greed is Fear of loss, loss of power/resources/leverage/and feeling better than others. Greed is pity in the negative sense because one can pity the poor yet do nothing because they are just to greedy to succume to aiding them get their life on track. Which leads to attachment to outcomes.

So you see. All those things you mentioned. are Nessisary for both compassion, as well as greed. You cannot have either or, they are intertwined. The question should be what is one greedy for?

Greedy for the happiness of others? Or greedy for themsleves? Because greed is not just selfishness. There is positive greed. And that is what this thread is about right? Positive greed.


So greedy for happiness for other people, fortunate and less fortunate alike. Or Selfish greed?

a reply to: TwoRavens

I'm not even going to bother to watch it, honestly, for this reason. Anyone who ever tells me that PITY is a BAD thing is a LIAR. PERIOD.

simply because Pity is the KID SISTER of Compassion, and is not an evil thing. That is my own childish understanding. Why do we take all the emotions and say they are negative? Why is it supposed to be so damn wrong to feel something for another human being..or another being period? Why is it wrong to want to be INVOLVED and CARE???

I am sick to death in my very soul of 'non' attachment!!!

sick of it. ATTACHMENT IS NOT A BAD THING!

I can sense your pain and anger; you have suffered great losses and fear more. Pity is an enemy of compassion because it is condescending; it places the person feeling it above the one who is pitied; this causes both a separation and and a self righteous inflation of the ego of the one doing the pitying. See how your attachment to pity leads to anger?

Not all emotions are negative; it is your failure to distinguish between those that lead to clarity and those that lead to suffering that is one of the sources of your confusion. It is possible to be engaged and to work towards social justice without being angry; anger leads to poor decision making.

a reply to: TwoRavens

TI pity is to believe your above someone and they need your care like a parent. And moral outrage is dumb the only person you control is yourself and that's the only person you can change you may educate other people but that doesn't mean they will change and you can't force people to change.

Great talks, especially the second one.

IMO, it all relates to ego.

Ego tries to create separation between humans, it does this by making others into enemies or enhancing the self.

Ego operates subconsciously, by being aware of it you bring it into consciousness and that is the death of the ego.

Compassion will arise or grow naturally from this process.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: TwoRavens

I'm not even going to bother to watch it, honestly, for this reason. Anyone who ever tells me that PITY is a BAD thing is a LIAR. PERIOD.

simply because Pity is the KID SISTER of Compassion, and is not an evil thing. That is my own childish understanding. Why do we take all the emotions and say they are negative? Why is it supposed to be so damn wrong to feel something for another human being..or another being period? Why is it wrong to want to be INVOLVED and CARE???

I am sick to death in my very soul of 'non' attachment!!!

sick of it. ATTACHMENT IS NOT A BAD THING!

I can sense your pain and anger; you have suffered great losses and fear more. Pity is an enemy of compassion because it is condescending; it places the person feeling it above the one who is pitied; this causes both a separation and and a self righteous inflation of the ego of the one doing the pitying. See how your attachment to pity leads to anger?

Not all emotions are negative; it is your failure to distinguish between those that lead to clarity and those that lead to suffering that is one of the sources of your confusion. It is possible to be engaged and to work towards social justice without being angry; anger leads to poor decision making.

Holy crap, I never thought we would ever agree on something!

originally posted by: TwoRavens
I'm not even going to bother to watch it, honestly, for this reason. Anyone who ever tells me that PITY is a BAD thing is a LIAR. PERIOD.

simply because Pity is the KID SISTER of Compassion, and is not an evil thing. That is my own childish understanding. Why do we take all the emotions and say they are negative? Why is it supposed to be so damn wrong to feel something for another human being..or another being period? Why is it wrong to want to be INVOLVED and CARE???

I am sick to death in my very soul of 'non' attachment!!!

sick of it. ATTACHMENT IS NOT A BAD THING!

Attachment just adds to the false "self concept". Not being attached and caring about something are not mutually exclusive.

nothing to lose

That's a suicide trap in my book. That's not 'freedom' either, I know that much today. let go or be dragged???

I WOULD RATHER BE DRAGGED THEN, GIVING UP IS NOT COURAGE IN THIS INSTANCE NEITHER IS 'LETTING GO'. GO PEDDLE THAT SUICIDE CULT GARBAGE SOMEWHERE ELSE OR STICK IT WHERE THE SUN DON'T SHINE.

I'm in it for LOVE. I don't even CARE if that's REALITY or FANTASY at this point, and I know now I never should have. Let the world end or not, I'm in it for LOVE.

That's why when I cry at all the suffering in it and cannot stop I know that might be the most dangerous thing of all..

my tears.

some sick # on another forum once even said that they "tasted delicious"..well that may be the case,but it still beats not crying them at all. And then in today's society cruelty is standard and tears are abnormal.

No, I am not impressed with 'ted talks' that much anymore these days.

if that makes me emotional, so be it. I am emotional. At least I CARE TODAY.

originally posted by: TwoRavens

nothing to lose

That's a suicide trap in my book. That's not 'freedom' either, I know that much today. let go or be dragged???

I WOULD RATHER BE DRAGGED THEN, GIVING UP IS NOT COURAGE IN THIS INSTANCE NEITHER IS 'LETTING GO'. GO PEDDLE THAT SUICIDE CULT GARBAGE SOMEWHERE ELSE OR STICK IT WHERE THE SUN DON'T SHINE.

Perhaps when your pain becomes unbearable, your eyes will open.

originally posted by: AnuTyr
a reply to: BlueMule

fear comes from loss, If you feel you have nothing to lose. Then there is no fear.

Courage can overcome fear tho, Knowing you have everything to lose but are force into a situation where you must overcome the knowledge of loss because losing isn't an option is also very important.

Her benevolence is in the right place but she needs to eat more fortune cookies for points in wisdom.

Pity is as circumstancial as anything else. Pity is needed to show compassion for those who don't feel pity for all who have the ability to suffer. Which is everyone.

Do i pity the human race? Yes i do. Because a huge majority of us feel pretty lost without a sense of direction. This comes from freedom. And we arn't given a path by *God* directly. Because this is what freedom is, This is what freedom feels like, you are born, you live you experience then you die. And if someone feels bad about that so be it. It's freedom. No one is forcing you to live forever and into servitude yet. Do i have compassion for those that are suffering. Absolutely, of course circumstancial. Do i feel pity for those who comment evil and suffer themselves because of consiquences? to a degree yes i pity they chose a life that lead to such outcomes. But again, Its freedom.
Do i pity people who withold other peoples freedoms? Not really no. In fact, unless the held individual is a threat to himself, other people or the enviroment i kinda wish every single person who with-holds our freedoms to act benevolent would be subjected to the most brutal terror and distress every psychological horror fathomable to existance.

Because impeding on anothers ability to generate compassionate action deserves the exact opposite done to them. Period.

Oh and fear, without fear. No one would be compassionate at all.

One needs to fear the outcome of those they pity in order to be compassionate. If an employer of tree planting didn't fear for the homeless mans life, if he/she had the ability to house such an individual by providing them with a job. Why would they give such help? I mean without greed theres nothing holding them back from doing it.

Because greed is all of those combined in the uncompassionate sense.

Greed is Fear of loss, loss of power/resources/leverage/and feeling better than others. Greed is pity in the negative sense because one can pity the poor yet do nothing because they are just to greedy to succume to aiding them get their life on track. Which leads to attachment to outcomes.

So you see. All those things you mentioned. are Nessisary for both compassion, as well as greed. You cannot have either or, they are intertwined. The question should be what is one greedy for?

Greedy for the happiness of others? Or greedy for themsleves? Because greed is not just selfishness. There is positive greed. And that is what this thread is about right? Positive greed.


So greedy for happiness for other people, fortunate and less fortunate alike. Or Selfish greed?

I weep for others, I weep for myself, I weep that people still can't see that all we have to do is be willing to take chances and take risks, and some of us are just too wounded to do it anymore. And some of us just want to rub salt in those wounds too. I don't call that compassion. And when others laugh at someone's pain, I don't call that compassion, and I have never found any form of it funny. It's not a 'lesson' in my book to deliberately give pain. It may be done but I don't think in a perfect world it is ever necessary.

I disagree with you on some points and agree with you on others.

more than anything else...I just wish there were others who either felt or wanted to feel the same way as me. And I am not even certain they exist or ever did. But I can still dream of them. For as long as I can dream.

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: TwoRavens

nothing to lose

That's a suicide trap in my book. That's not 'freedom' either, I know that much today. let go or be dragged???

I WOULD RATHER BE DRAGGED THEN, GIVING UP IS NOT COURAGE IN THIS INSTANCE NEITHER IS 'LETTING GO'. GO PEDDLE THAT SUICIDE CULT GARBAGE SOMEWHERE ELSE OR STICK IT WHERE THE SUN DON'T SHINE.

Perhaps when your pain becomes unbearable, your eyes will open.

or my heart will finally break.

a reply to: TwoRavens

.I just wish there were others who either felt or wanted to feel the same way as me.

That is what compassion means... when others can feel with you.

a reply to: BlueMule
Good topic, BlueMule.

I can agree that Fear is an obstruction to feeling real compassion, but in terms of the others, I would have to say that it depends.

Pity - if that pity is about feeling superior and separate from the other, then yes, it would be an obstruction to actually feeling compassion and acting with compassion. If one's pity is simply feeling great sorrow that someone is really suffering, then to have empathy and pity for that person is natural enough.

Moral Outrage - if one is not already capable of love and self-transcendence, such outrage is based on something else. But if one is full and capable of real love and heart-based intelligence, then one's morals are based in that, so some outrage may be required at times - when the bs calls for it.

Attachment to Outcomes - if one is just looking for a certain outcome and is full of their own selfish reasons and agendas for a particular outcome, then yes, this is an obstruction to feeling and acting with real selfless compassion. However, if one is capable of love and compassion already, there is nothing inherently wrong with praying for a benign and even specific outcome.

But yes, one does have to release ones attachment to even that well-intentioned outcome, though the act of praying for a specific one implies at least some desire for that outcome. The real question is, are you surrendering all outcomes to the Divine, even if you desire and pray for a specific one.

"are you surrendering all outcomes to the Divine, even if you desire and pray for a specific one"

it's all I can do.

originally posted by: TwoRavens
"are you surrendering all outcomes to the Divine, even if you desire and pray for a specific one"

it's all I can do.

I think it depends on how one prays. If one prays intentionally for a certain outcome, all the while surrendering in communion with the Divine, this disposition of communion is already released of the desired outcome.

However, if one's prayer is like a needy child to a parent, that is not being in communion with the Divine nor is there then any release from the desired outcome.

If one prays in real heart-communion with the Divine Reality, then that empowers the intention, and one's heart-communion with the Divine releases all the attachments to certain results.

The key is obviously real communion with the Divine.

originally posted by: TwoRavens
I'm in it for LOVE. I don't even CARE if that's REALITY or FANTASY at this point, and I know now I never should have. Let the world end or not, I'm in it for LOVE.

That's why when I cry at all the suffering in it and cannot stop I know that might be the most dangerous thing of all..

my tears.

some sick # on another forum once even said that they "tasted delicious"..well that may be the case,but it still beats not crying them at all. And then in today's society cruelty is standard and tears are abnormal.

No, I am not impressed with 'ted talks' that much anymore these days.

if that makes me emotional, so be it. I am emotional. At least I CARE TODAY.

Sorry to hear all that. I cry sometimes too. Especially when I see the damage we humans do to this beautiful planet, the ecosystems, the plant and animal kingdoms. We are causing tremendous suffering.

Compassion can be kind of like a wave, or a particle. Like light. We can radiate it like a wave, everywhere, to everyone, unconditionally. Without judgment, fear, pity, or boundary. Then we can let it zero in on a living being, like a particle, still unconditionally, without judgment, anger, or expectations. And even on ourselves. Even the parts of ourselves that hurt us.

Nothing is really lost, you know. Whatever we think we lose, comes back in a different form.



👣

originally posted by: bb23108

originally posted by: TwoRavens
"are you surrendering all outcomes to the Divine, even if you desire and pray for a specific one"

it's all I can do.

I think it depends on how one prays. If one prays intentionally for a certain outcome, all the while surrendering in communion with the Divine, this disposition of communion is already released of the desired outcome.

However, if one's prayer is like a needy child to a parent, that is not being in communion with the Divine nor is there then any release from the desired outcome.

If one prays in real heart-communion with the Divine Reality, then that empowers the intention, and one's heart-communion with the Divine releases all the attachments to certain results.

The key is obviously real communion with the Divine.

and if that child has no parent? That is where compassion starts. That is what is truly divine in my own book. What is truly perfect. To see a need and fill it. All I have ever seen of detachment has led to more suffering. That is my own interpretation, your mileage may vary. If I was a Divine Being, I would do more good and bring more good into the world. If I was someone seeing someone else in pain, I would want to reach out and help. But far too often the Divine means to "let someone else develop at their own pace"..when maybe the pace should be to lend a hand now and then. I would rather be imperfect if it means questioning the suffering and wanting to not just not SEE others suffer or know I wasn't the one RESPONSIBLE for their suffering but not care about what I saw or was responsible for but rather for what I FELT and act from the HEART.

If one isn't praying for things to get better, then what is the POINT of prayer?????????????