Sitting at the gate...

when i was around 14 i went through an extremely deep and unfathomably painful existential crisis. it lasted for about a year and everything i had ever believed mattered was thrown out and replaced with nihilistic despair...

im 17 now and all that i want is an end to all the unconsciousness in myself that i have become painfully aware of. i want what all the great mystics and sages have found and i can never be satisfied with anything less.

ive listened to countless teachings from countless teachers and now im at the point where the words really mean nothing at all. its like ive come this far to realize theres nothing i can do. i feel like im so close to enlightenment or whatever you want to call it and yet i cant seem to figure out how to take that final step.

im waiting in the midst of a thousand paradoxes for the end of me, for the bullet that will take me out. i cant accept anything that anyone has to say, i have to reject everything and yet here i am, hoping that someone will know how to solve the greatest koan of all...

a reply to: HarryTZ

Only you can ultimately be the one to put into practice what you have learnt

Knowledge is something we can gather of all our lives ... but how will you use this knowledge to find your place in the world Now

Who are you doing it for
Why are you doing it

We can all aim high with heady ideas but it is the small every day things that matter
How we treat others for example

a reply to: HarryTZ

From what I make of this "what is" there really isn't a final step.

There is no arrival when it comes to spirituality and truth, only continued self improvement, or stagnation.

One of the easiest ways to move forward is to teach those with less wisdom the things that you know and have learnt that will make thier lives better, in a real way.

One of the things most spiritual religions share is fellowship.

Enlightenment is something ment to be shared, on the path to such a thing the sharing is the thing to practice.

Just some advice on walking through a space.

Cheers

a reply to: HarryTZ
In some very real sense, you are fortunate to have this disillusionment while so young. Many people, if they have it at all, have worn themselves out through various means for many many years to quell this despair, and then may feel they lack the energy to be anything but depressed by their mortal situation.

What you are going through seems very similar to the dark night of the soul, in which you have despaired of your searches. it is only when you give up all your searches that one is primed to recognize that what you have been seeking, is already the case - that you, as feeling awareness, can recognize the non-separate reality that we all appear in and as.

But if you let only your despair inform you going forward, then you are back to seeking again - to be nihilistic, to be depressed, to feel separate from all, to be independent, etc.

Rather, use this period for really discovering that you do not exist independently in the slightest. You are completely dependent, arising in a vast field of relatedness - everyone is, but we do not simply recognize this very obvious fact of existence, and then live on this unified basis.

Notice this with great intensity and feeling - and the reality that everything is a modification of, will inform you one way or another.

To simply recognize that you are in a condition of relatedness, and all acts of independence and separation are one's suffering, is a very valuable insight, especially if you stay with what the truth of our actual situation is - utter dependence and relatedness, participating in an unlimited field of light-energy and form.

It is always the case, one must simply relax and notice that we are never separate except through our own activity to be an independent entity. That separative activity is our suffering. You can also notice that when you don't do this activity, the body-mind relaxes and the great energy of feeling this relatedness is available to you.

It requires complete surrender of our search to be independent - in order to truly notice our actual reality. Once we notice this, embrace it fully and open-heartedly. When you see you fall back to wanting to be something we are inherently not - i.e., separate and independent - notice this is suffering, a constriction of the body-mind.

Take care, and the best to you.

its like im literally at the end of the road. like theres nowhere to go except back into the dreamworld. and i cant do that, i dont want to either. im stuck in this sort of existential angst, a deep restlessness that cannot be fought. it feels like ive been waiting for an eternity and i have no idea when the wait will end.

a reply to: HarryTZ

Start from the realization that the prerequisite to anything mattering or meaning anything at all is; being. Then figure that since all value is derived from being, and you are in a condition of being, consider yourself responsible for the creation of value or not. Do what you have to do to continue being, or dont, what else could you expect?

originally posted by: ImaFungi
a reply to: HarryTZ

Start from the realization that the prerequisite to anything mattering or meaning anything at all is; being. Then figure that since all value is derived from being, and you are in a condition of being, consider yourself responsible for the creation of value or not. Do what you have to do to continue being, or dont, what else could you expect?

at this point i have no choice in the matter. all thats left is the deepest programming of the mind and theres actually nothing i can do to undo it. anything i do will just strengthen the momentum of resistance, and complete acceptance or surrender is not in my power. i suppose its completely spontaneous.

a reply to: HarryTZ

Chill Harry. Chill. Making it short here, I have been there.

Oh, no says Harry, you really have no idea.
If you are stuck here then I guess you are at the end of your rope.
However if you decide that what you are going through might, just might have been experienced by others, here and there, now and then, then you, Harry, might understand that you are NOT alone.

You say " it feels like ive been waiting for an eternity and i have no idea when the wait will end. " To this I say "STOP WAITING". Stop waiting for it to end and get busy digging yourself out.

And how do you start doing that? Ha. I recommend re-reading and giving some serious consideration to what BB23108 has offered just above your last post.

So, Harry. You have found that the vast extent of human experience can have the appearance of a mindless dream-state. Well yeahhhh. But as BB points out, be grateful that you have discovered this so early in life when you can still find the flexibility to navigate those existential realizations, and not a fifty or 60 year old who would snap like a dry twig under that angst.

And your enlightenment? Don't expect it too soon. What would you then have to look forward to for the rest of your life. Take that enlightenment in doses. Savor each and every aspect as you find it. And whatever you do, don't join a cult. They prey on searchers like you and me.

a reply to: HarryTZ

You as an individual are the result of millions of years of breeding and cross breeding, like we all are.

That is an impressive blood line, a formidable past.

A simple and small key. Learn to change your perspective....even if it seems to be acting at first. Learn to love what you are.....a majestic being.

Learning to be happy with what is or isn't, it is simply a state of mind. But it takes practice.

Such a small door that swings so wide.

Teaching your self awake is the first steps, finding happiness is the second.

Cheers!

originally posted by: HarryTZ
...complete acceptance or surrender is not in my power. i suppose its completely spontaneous.

It's not a matter of surrendering to your despair and feelings of independence, separation, and suffering. It is a matter of feeling and surrendering to your actual reality - that you already are arising in a condition of unlimited dependent relatedness. Keep feeling THAT, not all the subjectivity. If you keep dwelling on the subjectivity, as you say, it just gives it more energy.

If you learn to feel and surrender to what IS reality in this very difficult time, you have learned a great lesson for all time. It is what we all must do in death, whether we want to or not. Best to learn this beforehand!

Here you go. Thank me later.

a reply to: HarryTZ

It sounds trite but, everybody feels that at some point and then again at some other point, etc...

I don't pretend to know how you feel, I just think you need to know that you are not alone and it does get better.

originally posted by: HarryTZi feel like im so close to enlightenment or whatever you want to call it and yet i cant seem to figure out how to take that final step.

You will never figure it out. Ultimate Enlightenment is a gift from Reality, not something you can ever work you way into. How can any seeking ego-I ever go completely beyond itself?

Most people think they have to go within to become enlightened. All kinds of spiritual experiences and transcendental insights can be had, but until there is no activity of separation whatsoever, no matter how subtle or causal, there is no ultimate Enlightenment.

However, small "e" enlightenment is a different matter - but one must first become "wholly" human. When you see there is nowhere you need to seek, whether inwardly for spiritual experiences nor outwardly for material consolations, but instead feel and relax into the whole of life consciously, participating whole bodily, then you recognize something fundamental about the indivisibility of Reality Itself - and why you do not have to go elsewhere for this understanding.

Reality is indivisible, right? Why do we think we must go anywhere? Reality is as present here as anywhere.

When you really see that you are a completely dependent participant in life, the mind stops trying to separate itself from the body in its attempts to go elsewhere for the great Enlightenment.

The body-mind then becomes a functioning whole, and on that basis can learn to conduct as much of the energy of Reality as it can possibly handle. Various disciplines also do support this whole bodily recognition of the indivisible Reality (or Unity) and one's participation in its free energy.

This body-mind integration is actually what we naturally are in terms of individual identities - not some inner entity called "I". In this wholeness, the heart opens up naturally, love becomes real, and one's connectedness to all is obvious.

This is the necessary foundation for true spiritual life - not to look to escape the body, but to embrace life fully, with real heart-love and intelligence. Then one's enlightenment is grounded, based on a true foundation - because the indivisible Reality is recognized whole bodily from the beginning.

From there your embrace of Reality will unfold what is necessary without any concerns about it - like when will the great Enlightenment happen, etc. - because you find you are already happy in direct relationship with Reality - free of the suffering of futile seeking, separation, of being divorced from Reality.

a reply to: HarryTZ

My advice: Read your title, stand up and go through.

a reply to: HarryTZ

One of the problems with the idea of "attaining" enlightenment is that nobody really knows what it feels like at the very moment of "attainment". Since enlightenment is such a, well, literally mind blowing experience, does that mean that something will "explode" inside one's being at the moment of one's enlightenment? I'm sure most soul searchers would like to think so since enlightenment is the big goal at the end of a very long and winding road that slithers through hills and valleys, tundras and deserts. When one reaches the finish line, will one witness the bedazzling colours of a thousand fireworks shooting up into the sky? Will some great sage come and congratulate one? Will one ascend to a "higher plane"? The answer is ...
... no.

The problem is that there is no path to set out on in order to reach enlightenment. Enlightenment is not something to be reached: enlightenment is not anything at all. It's impossible to attain enlightenment since it's already there. It's really like an onion. When you peel it, layer after layer, you won't come to a core. At the end there's just emptiness. Enlightenment truly lays beyond language and ideas, so in order to know it you must renounce all philosophies and mental constructions about existence/the universe/etc.

To be enlightened is to "go with the flow". EVERYTHING, from the stuff inside atoms to galaxy clusters, EVERYTHING is in motion. Mental constructions have the tendency of obstructing this motion. We are clinging on to them too much. We let them define us. We let them consume us.

To "attain" enlightenment, you must give up the idea that enlightenment is something to be attained. Stop asking yourselves all these questions. They won't lead you anywhere except into a state of perpetual frustration. Stop asking and searching and there will be no koan to solve.

So you opened Pandora's cereal box by mistake... decided to have breakfast but; oh crap your bowl just contained flakes, no toy fell out, so you did some elbow deep digging around... and now you're accosting strangers in the cereal isle? I swear... the nerve of some people. I could hear you crying all the way from the dairy isle.

originally posted by: HarryTZ
when i was around 14 i went through an extremely deep and unfathomably painful existential crisis. it lasted for about a year and everything i had ever believed mattered was thrown out and replaced with nihilistic despair...

So you caught a glimpse behind the curtain or opened Pandora's box as I like to think of it these days, this is a very common occurrence actually and just as commonly?.. it scares the ever loving crap out of people that see behind/inside it. The most common reaction of course; is to go right back to sleep in pretend time and try to deny it ever occurred. This is pretty common in society, if someone denies something enough to themselves or lie to themselves and others about whatever long enough, they will convince themselves into believing whatever and fight against anyone or anything that tries to pop that bubble of illusion.

We even have a legal concept often used by politicians called: plausible deniability, where you can protect your and someone else's bubble of consciousness in a court of law using it as a defense, it's not as quite as drunk as pleading the 5th. It's escaping responsibility into ones fantasy ideal of life to suit themselves instead of facing actual reality... their dream within a dream or basically, samsara inside of samsara. If you've spoken to peers or others about this experience, and they've given you a case of the crazy eye or pretended to not know what you were or are talking about, they are simply protecting their bubble using cognitive dissonance or plausible deniability, you are not the one with the sleep problem trust me... it's those that have seen it and try to avoid it by going back to sleep that have a problem. You are best to observe a vow of silence about such things, unless you know you are in understanding company; if you do not wish to take psychologically approved go back to sleep coping pills.

im 17 now and all that i want is an end to all the unconsciousness in myself that i have become painfully aware of. i want what all the great mystics and sages have found and i can never be satisfied with anything less.


ive listened to countless teachings from countless teachers and now im at the point where the words really mean nothing at all. its like ive come this far to realize theres nothing i can do. i feel like im so close to enlightenment or whatever you want to call it and yet i cant seem to figure out how to take that final step.

Well if you want to eliminate unconsciousness of your body, speech and mind and live in a wakeful life... then you need to practice mindfulness and develop one pointed concentration; at least that's the standard advice for such. There's many roads to both practices, so no need to guess which ones you may have an affinity for; but whichever you choose my advice is once you've developed being in the now? Drop whatever crutch you use to maintain it, if you see beyond all duality? Great, if not? No biggie, it takes time just grab the crutches, stand up and try again.

Words are words true... what I have written here is 100% comprehensible to myself. They are never going to be 100% comprehensible to any one else. Even if you simply write a singular word just one... it's full meaning is 100% yours and yours alone, because there are so many other useless concepts, emotions, and memories attached to it being dragged along with it in yours and another's consciousness surrounding it, changing it's reality. This singular word business may seem like an interesting concept to yourself or others, but beyond the concept, it is just the reality of samsara which is unreality and simply the nature of the conscious world. In awakened reality, whatever it is, it is just what it is; all trees stand in the woods just fine... until a human consciousness and it's senses show up to witness one fall. A master of the mind that sees reality directly beyond all of this unreality, unfortunately cannot directly fully awaken another. It is up to oneself; but one can help them tend the field, plant the seeds, water the crop, and hopefully the master is skilled enough in their own enlightenment to shake the bush enough so the fruit drops on your head where, you awaken to reality and nothing else starts your sleep cycle again.

There are many here that are standing on the edge of full enlightenment, many others enlightened in various degrees, and some just filled with a rote conceptual understanding of it. So masters of every degree are everywhere lol. ATS certainly, was not a bad place for you to drop this awakening dilemma of yours, the problem isn't that initial enlightenment is difficult, you already have had the experience and so have others that have chosen to go back to sleep out of fear. Going back to sleep is the issue, even if you don't want to you will. it just happens until, out of nowhere you just don't. Many can grasp the concept of impermanence easily and think they understand it fully from limited experience then claim to be a master of understanding impermanence, this is where many "teachers" are at; sitting at the exit trying to point the way to the exit. If all things are impermanent? Impermanence also falls into that bracket of impermanence.

That realization was the final straw, that made me stop sitting at the exit. pointing at it like some fool thinking I knew how to show people the way out. if someone has managed to reach the exit and you're just sitting there next to it, all you are doing is trying to say yep that's the exit. but haven't even bothered opening it to make sure? That impermanence slap was the last delusional hurdle for me. It still took four years afterwards, all reeking to not fall back asleep ever again. These days less than a year later in testing, I'm unable to go back to sleep to reality. It's like trying to dream the same dream the night before, that you've completely forgotten what the dream was even about. It just can't happen anymore.

im waiting in the midst of a thousand paradoxes for the end of me, for the bullet that will take me out. i cant accept anything that anyone has to say, i have to reject everything and yet here i am, hoping that someone will know how to solve the greatest koan of all...

Sounds like you are waiting for someone to kick that gate for you, and give you some sort of validation that it's ok to walk through. Accept/reject, is just another form of the good/bad, positive/negative concept... there's no difference between the two. So it's easy to see you're at a dualistic gate, still mired in a dream of extremes and personal ideologies. Whatever concept you or anyone has of what enlightenment is, is exactly what keeps you and them from walking through the gateless gate. None of those imaginary keys you or anyone holds, will ever open any self created doors. Ah-ha moments are just those imaginary keys jingling the way to delusional attainment and philosophy instead of reality.

Whatever it was that made you see behind the curtain? Investigate that crack & widen it.

a reply to: HarryTZ

You've gone in too deep too quick young person. Step back about, the path of life is long. Listen and read then look for what is common. You can recognise truth when something you read or hear 'it just seems right' it just comes across to you as right.

Remember, we are all a 'work in progress' otherwise we would not be here. Look for the middle way. We all will and have decided what is truth for us. What is true and what is not true is something we all have to decide for ourselves. No one can do wit for us.

At the end of the day, we all walk down that long winding road of life on our own two feet even though we go with those we love.

I was about 30-35 years of age before I began to settle on what I held to be true and what I held to be untrue, Just about every time I visit the websites I visit and read the things I read and hear what I heard, I am still deciding for myself what is true and what is not true.

At some cost to myself after having got into this community who have a different view of how the world work than the masses, I find myself occasionally doubting what I I have learned and held to be true in this same community, but that's life.

a reply to: HarryTZ

I am thinking your hormones are getting in the way at this stage in your young life. So, first deal with the physical in a physical way not metaphysical, perhaps with sports or working out, which will, in all likelihood, release endorphines into your body, which may actually aid in and change the way you approach existentialism and the human condition. Your physical changes should taper off in your early twenties, and balance out. It may be during these years that your path may be come clearer. Patience.

One day a farmer’s donkey fell down into a well.

The animal cried piteously for hours as the farmer tried to figure out what to do. Finally he decided the animal was old, and the well needed to be covered up anyway; it just wasn’t worth it to retrieve the donkey. He invited all his neighbors to come over and help him. they all grabbed a shovel and began to shovel dirt into the well.

At first, the donkey realized what was happening and cried horribly. Then,to everyone’s amazement, he quieted down. A few shovel loads later, the farmer finally looked down the well, and was astonished at what he saw. With every shovel of dirt that hit his back, the donkey was doing something amazing. He would shake it off and take a step up.

As the farmer’s neighbors continued to shovel dirt on top of the animal, he would shake it off and take a step up. Pretty soon, everyone was amazed as the donkey stepped up over the edge of the well and trotted off!

Life is going to shovel dirt on you, all kinds of dirt. The trick to getting out of the well is to shake it off and take a step up. Each of our troubles is a stepping stone. We can get out of the deepest wells just by not stopping, never giving up! Shake it off and take a step up!

Remember these five simple rules to be happy:
1. Free your heart from hatred.
2. Free your mind from worries.
3. Live simply.
4. Give more.
5. Expect less.

Get outside amongst quiet nature ... let it soak into you
Write down your thoughts ... externalise what is inside

Find a creative outlet ... stop thinking you are alone ...

The world can seem mindless and even pointless ... But in reality it is not
Think yourself fortunate that you have the luxury of self searching ... most do not and are caught up in the illusion of things

Stop feeling sorry yourself and dwelling on negative thoughts and feelings...

Enlightenment is not a destination ...

originally posted by: HarryTZ

ive listened to countless teachings from countless teachers and now im at the point where the words really mean nothing at all. its like ive come this far to realize theres nothing i can do. i feel like im so close to enlightenment or whatever you want to call it and yet i cant seem to figure out how to take that final step.

im waiting in the midst of a thousand paradoxes for the end of me, for the bullet that will take me out. i cant accept anything that anyone has to say, i have to reject everything and yet here i am, hoping that someone will know how to solve the greatest koan of all...

It is said that a man sat down under a Bodhi tree and gave up his search for enlightenment and that is when it happened.
It is the seeking energy which feels uncomfortable. When the seeking ends the seeker is no more - the me just vanishes. The 'me' is nothing more than seeking - the seeking gives rise to an apparent seeker.