It's Starting--> Indiana Christian Pizzeria ATTACKED by gay lobby

originally posted by: Seamrog

originally posted by: Annee

No One should choose to be BLIND.

You can't wrap your mind around logical thinking - it goes over your head every time, and you respond with quips - exactly like you did here.

I do agree with you, that choosing to be blind to reason, tradition and order are terrible - our society suffers the consequences of it in an exponentially increasing manner.

You are claiming your thinking is logical.

Blind Faith is not logical.

So what exactly are you saying?

See if you can do it without the personal attacks.

a reply to: Seamrog

Treating people poorly, in this instance would be refusing them service in a place of business, despite their good conduct toward one personally as a shop keeper, would it not? I rather think that it would.

Called to the carpet? That phrase has its roots in the 1800s and many people believe that it originated in an employer calling his servants to account in his office, which would ordinarily be carpeted. That is hardly the correct way for one human to refer to another, now is it?

And as for the way you carry yourself... That's your own affair, but know this. God is the one who calls people to account, or to repent, and one must have faith enough in him, to understand that he needs no interloper to do this on his behalf. It is not our place to take that responsibility on ourselves, since it is His to bare. Unless we measure ourselves as equal to Jesus Christ, to God Himself, we have no right to take that mantle upon ourselves, and call people to do ANYTHING! We are mortal and flawed, and flawed mortal people have no place in calling others to account.

a reply to: Blaine91555

So sad, but so utterly true.

I'm kind of wondering what else is going on in Washington, since everyone is distracted by this issue and a plane crash in the Alps. Someone ought to turn on CSPAN and check on those guys, when left unattended the children tend to make a mess...

Unbelievable.

The American Freedom of Religion recognized in the First Amendment was one of the strongest and most well-regarded for almost 200 years.

It is the RFRA and similar laws that have "shredded" the Constitution and gone far beyond anything the Founders intended, or that generations of Americans believed in, fought and died for.

It is and was an usurpation of everything the Republic stood for.

originally posted by: Annee

You are claiming your thinking is logical.

Blind Faith is not logical.

So what exactly are you saying?

See if you can do it without the personal attacks.

I am claiming you are not capable of following a logical thought. There are many logical arguments for many aspects of Christian faith - you have not demonstrated, at least, that you are capable of following them. Perhaps this is a conscious or subconscious choice - I don't know - but from my interactions with you, and from reading many of your other posts, there is a significant disconnect there. I do not mean it as an insult, or a personal attack. It is a real obstacle to dialogue with you.

a reply to: Annee

Well, apparently, for many, the answer to "can you communicate logically without personal attacks" is ... no.

For some, apparently, they believe logic means "agreeing with what I say."

When we disagree, and back up with facts, therefore, it is we who are irrational, it is we who are dishonest.

I believe that demonstrates a deep level of programming ... but that's just me.

Notice how many times in this thread alone we've seen the "so, do you want to make Muslims sell pork and alcohol" meme.

Type it into Google and see the thousands of rightsteam media outlets that brings up.

Notice that we get to a point in the conversation when the patter just stops. They realize that they're out of pat phrases.

And then, they get nasty ... and personal.

Thanks for fighting the good fight, Annee!

a reply to: TrueBrit

It would appear from your reply that you have never read St. Paul.

I did not advocate for refusing to serve a polite person who visits a shop.

It is another thing entirely to participate in an organized activity which is inherently sinful. It is proper to avoid association with sin.

I am curious from your reply if you consider gay sex to be a sinful activity - perhaps you could share your thoughts on that.

Regarding the carpet, I would suspect that during your rearing, you were called to the carpet many times by your parents. The child of every respectable parent has experienced this countless times during his rearing. It is not so different for adults who need to be corrected - it is done on a societal level, a familial level, and a fraternal level EVERY DAY. We are instructed to do this...which makes me wonder if you are familiar with St. Paul.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Annee

Well, apparently, for many, the answer to "can you communicate logically without personal attacks" is ... no.

For some, apparently, they believe logic means "agreeing with what I say."

This is exactly the point I am making about Annee.

I honestly do not even think any of this matters to the owners any more.

Last I checked the fundme amount was over $300,000, it would not surprise me in the least if it gets over a million before it is all said and done.

They are going to make more money because of this then they probably would have in a lifetime of running the pizza store.

To clarify, I do not agree on the owners views but I do believe it got a bit out of hand with a hypothetical question.

Anyway, maybe this is the start of a whole new thing for people to cash out on hate, seems to be working for the owners so far.

originally posted by: Seamrog

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Annee

Well, apparently, for many, the answer to "can you communicate logically without personal attacks" is ... no.

For some, apparently, they believe logic means "agreeing with what I say."

This is exactly the point I am making about Annee.

You are utterly mistaken in my experience.

Annee is amazingly patient and reasonable. Far more than I am, for example.

Here's the really good question though ... why are you talking about ANNEE?

Why are you making personal comments? Why do you consider that anyone here gives a rot what you think about another poster?

Stick to the issues, and I think you'll be a lot better off. And if you don't like my advice, perfecto, please don't invoke me in your irrational statements in the future.

a reply to: Dreamwatcher

Pledges do not equal money transferred.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: beezzer

the more these conversations go on, the more comments I see about removing people's right to freedom of religion... and that to me is so very wrong..

instead of people being adults and saying no, I do not want my rights to trump yours but I would like my own set of rights, they are saying religious people should not be afforded protections for beliefs I don't agree with..

and this is probably how it all begins.. the constitution gets shredded because people only care about their own rights and could give a # less about the rights of another.

Beautifully put, ma'am.

This is why I still disagree with this law.

originally posted by: Dreamwatcher
Last I checked the fundme amount was over $300,000, it would not surprise me in the least if it gets over a million before it is all said and done.

LOLOLOLOLOL

Oh man what a bunch of suckers!!! Absolute proof that some people have too much money and no idea what to do with it.

But it's typical of how all issues and problems are handled today.

"Oh no a problem that requires reason and intelligence to solve. Damn, we're fresh out. Just throw money at it until it goes away!!" "Yay!!"

LOLOLOL

a reply to: NavyDoc

...people in this very thread entered assuming that the people had actually discriminated.

I didn't. In fact, I said in the post you're replying to that I can understand why the Pizza family might be feeling very afraid right now. What can we say about people hurling abuse at each other on the internet?

Some people threaten women with rape or worse in different situations - some people think this is awful, some people think its criminal - some people think it's a non-issue. Just words - nothing to get all whiny about

I've also heard worse online coming from NRA and 2nd amendment supporters - far worse

I haven't read all of the comments, so I can't say whether or not any actual threats have been made. Insults? Yes - maybe it's not classy, maybe they don't deserve it. But, this is the law now in Indiana - and they did say that if the opportunity presented itself, they would happily discriminate. What did they expect?

This isn't about cakes, or flowers - or even the right to get married. This is about something much bigger than any of that. We are looking at freedom here - for everybody - from religion. It's not about destroying religion. Religious people are not above the laws that we have all agreed on together. If they don't like those laws - they can try to change them

Oh, golly - I guess they just did. I suppose they want people to also be happy about that? If we're not happy that they get their way in everything - is that persecution?

I think it a very dangerous situation when we demand that the government punish thoughts and beliefs.

Can you show me where the government punished anyone's thoughts or beliefs? In fact - the State of Indiana just passed a law that pretty much give's religious folk carte blanche to do as they please

Meanwhile, some (and only some) religious people are fine with punishing other people for their thoughts and beliefs

I don't think anyone is suggesting a lawless society. People are suggesting that private, non-governmental, non-taxpayer funded, non-essential services can be free to make their own decisions. That's not lawless nor "the law of the jungle."

So - back to segregation? Back to Jim Crow? Or is this different somehow - because these people are gay? They shouldn't really expect to be treated like everybody else?

Yes, the market should decide, not government.

The comments section at yahoo and many other places is doing exactly that. It's honest. Should they not be allowed to vote with their words and their dollars? Should they be nicer?

What do you suggest? Should the government make them shut up? Should people with guns make them shut up?

It is what it is Navy. If this law doesn't get reworked to some peoples satisfaction - the market really is going to decide

I have to say I am really getting sick of this agenda and all it has come to be.

I keep hearing "God made us this way and God doesn't make mistakes." ok....God made gay bashers too. God made people who don't agree with homosexuality and don't want to invite it into their homes or places of business. What about them? Remember now, God doesn't make mistakes.

Could it be that maybe God is trying to tell us to respect each other's views and opinions even if we don't agree with them and stop trying to force people to agree with views/opinions/beliefs they obviously don't share?

Just saying...

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Dreamwatcher

Pledges do not equal money transferred.

This is true, though if gofundme is run like other crowd sourcing sites, donors have to enter payment information before pledging.

This also bring up the idea that if they are raising this much through a public crowd funding site, how much are they going to get from private donors with real money that would not use or even know about gofundme?

originally posted by: Seamrog
a reply to: TrueBrit

It would appear from your reply that you have never read St. Paul.

All scripture is useful, but it would appear from your assumption that you did not read my reply.

I did not advocate for refusing to serve a polite person who visits a shop.

That is exactly what you did!

It is another thing entirely to participate in an organized activity which is inherently sinful. It is proper to avoid association with sin.

Yes it is. However, baking a cake, no matter what the cake happens to celebrate, would not be involving oneself in sin, unless one finds fault in the act of baking itself, that is!

I am curious from your reply if you consider gay sex to be a sinful activity - perhaps you could share your thoughts on that.

Yes I do. I also happen to believe that people are free to use their free will as they see fit, and that it is not my place to chastise people for failing to meet with standards I apply to myself, and that includes by refusing to provide goods and services to them. The only exception to that, would be in the case of people who behave in a manner which is directly harmful to my physical person, or my business as a whole, for instance, violent, or overly litigious persons. I am not without sin, therefore I shall cast no stone.

Regarding the carpet, I would suspect that during your rearing, you were called to the carpet many times by your parents. The child of every respectable parent has experienced this countless times during his rearing. It is not so different for adults who need to be corrected - it is done on a societal level, a familial level, and a fraternal level EVERY DAY. We are instructed to do this...which makes me wonder if you are familiar with St. Paul.

I was told off a fair few times by my parents. Put another way, I was programmed, which is part of child rearing, and is entirely understandable. A child is in a position where they must learn from an adult. An adult is not in a position however, to instruct another adult in the society we live in today, unless the adult being told his fortune as it were, has committed an offence under THE LAW, and can be held accountable for that in a courtroom.

Now, as to what I have read... I have read the Bible from cover to cover, in several different iterations. We can play scripture tennis all day with this, but the central point is, that none of us have a leg to stand on, because we are all sinners. The biggest sin we could possibly commit, other than outright murdering people and so on, would be to turn people away from Christ, by being so hateful, spiteful and horrid, as to prejudice ourselves against others.

The ONLY thing that has ever gone wrong with the way Christ is worshiped on this planet, is that people have taken it into their heads to allow brimstone to replace compassion, to allow judgement to replace humility, to start stabbing at the speck in the eyes of others, before removing the vast rolling jungle from about our own ocular cavities!

It has to stop!

might want to see who is doing the "collecting"...

About the Organizer Lawrence Billy Jones III

a reply to: xuenchen

Your link takes us to the GOFundMe page. No thank you. So, tell us, who's Lawrence Billy Jones III?

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: xuenchen

Your link takes us to the GOFundMe page. No thank you. So, tell us, who's Lawrence Billy Jones III?

Some kind of private investigator.

research is needed.