Can anyone tell me what happened to this grave?

First of all I am not good with forums, threads mainly because I do not use them so I apologise if I've made any mistakes with the layout or where this thread is posted.

I've been going to this graveyard for sometime now, a few years, I've always been drawn to the place. Some of the graves are over 200 years old and the church has some history to it, it has amazing architecture and the art on the windows is outstanding. Over time I've noticed the little intracacies of the place, I've walked around the entirity of it many a times noticing different things, most of the graves are damaged which is to be expected of their age and some mausoleums are locked off nothing strange really and theres no vandalism. You can tell that over time the graves have been moved closer together to accomodate all the dead, but now I think its full you can't get buried there anymore.

Anyway when I was standing at the bottom of the graveyard the other night I seen that a little closer to the church there was actually a fair bit of space still available I just found it a little odd as you cant help but walk over people the graves are so tightly squeezed. So when I went over to it I seen this grave just standing on its own with about 8-10 ft of space around it...



I've never noticed it before and I know that place very well. Some questions came to mind. I've also looked around the internet to find anything similiar but I can't.

Why has this persons grave been defaced so you can't tell who it is?
What did that person do to deserve something like that? And why would they deface the grave instead of getting rid of it because like I said it seems to be taking up a fairly large amount of space on its own.
How did they manage to smooth it down so finely and punch a hole out without cracking the rest of it?
Did this sort of thing happen normally?

It gives off the impression of being negative, erased name date, everything about them has been wiped off. Seems like they won't even bury people next to them. I come from quite a superstitious part of Scotland, in my area we have a strong history with witchcraft and being very spiritually driven could that have something to do with that?

Does anyone know any stories of anything like this or what defaced graves symbolise?

Does anybody have any pictures of something similar?

Im really curious as to what happened. I'm sorry for the picture quality I took it with my crappy phone at night, I can go take more pictures in the day unless this gets busted beforehand which I hope it does because its really puzzling me.

Thank you for any answers or speculation.

No idea about the name....but could the space around it be explained by a double or even family plot saved for the future?

CX.

a reply to: CX

I highly doubt it I don't think anyone has been buried here for at least 30 years, and this grave is located closer to the older ones, at a guess i'd say this grave is at least 60 years old. Most of the graves are 1800s- early1900s.

Also if it was someones family don't you think they would try to restore or do anything at all to the grave? They're graves been disgraced, if that was my family member I would of made some effort to retain respect for them, well unless they did something very questionable.

Who owns the graveyard property? The city, county, or a private person? You could probably get more information about that particular grave site by asking the property owner or caretaker.

a reply to: TheUsersName

It looks like weathering has eroded the wording on the grave. It also looks like you could have taken a sharper image.

If you search the name and address of the graveyard, there'll be a phone number. Give them a ring and ask about the grave.

may be the person(s) buried here where excommunicated from the community/church for some reason, so they buried them away from the others. The damage to the headstone may have been done by an angry community or family member.

just a thought

Disgusting.

And sad!



I've always enjoyed passing through cemeteries and learning the names of people...

Dunno why.




Gotta be a real low life to desecrate a grave.

a reply to: Kandinsky

The graveyard is owned by the Church and when I asked the reverand she said she had no idea, I think shes only been there for less than 10 years and the church is very old it was built in the late 14th century. So finding someone who knows is a little easier said than done. If I phone up more than likely they won't have a clue either, worth a try tommorow I guess, most likely be the rev.

Yes I will take another picture in the day time sorry about that its the only one I had, as for it being weather I don't think so if you look you can see that the bottom half where there would be no inscription seems to be in its original state, its been smoothed down unnaturally, and even if it was weather could it really cut a clean hole through the grave like that? Its thick as hell, and all the other graves do not show anything quite like this. Alot of them are damaged but this one stands out significantly from the rest as its the only one to me that doesn't seem to be caused by age and weather erosion.

a reply to: jackjoedoe

Yes the thought definatley crossed my mind, but I can't find any record of this sort of thing happening anywhere. I don't really know where to start looking for information like that.

Also if that was the case it makes me wonder why they gave them a grave in the first place close to the church if they were that angry. Wouldn't it of made a bit more sense to just not buy them a grave (they can be pretty expensive)? It has some space around it unlike most of the others but its also alot closer to the church itself which I find a bit contradictive.

Its really doing my nut in

Looks like maybe it's chiseled out then of course later weathered down. Were names and dates present anywhere on it? if not it may have been a aggressive attempt at removing those details if not by intent by the cemetery? I'd assume it's older than 60, the shape that looks like it's from the 18800s or early 1990s at the earliest.

You can tell that over time the graves have been moved closer together to accomodate all the dead, but now I think its full you can't get buried there anymore.

Maybe the original person in the plot was removed, the marker is used for multiple burials thus why the identification is removed from it-if so.

Also,
Where's it located Is there a history of witch hunts in the area?

a reply to: dreamingawake

There are no details present at all on the grave. Using it as a marker for multiple burials seems a little out there, I mean that would of went against alot of Christian beliefs back then wouldn't it? I don't think its a funeral rite that would be carried out there.

The church is St Marys Parish Church, Haddington. And yes witches where burned and drowned just outsides its gates next to the river I believe. The East Lothian area and Edinburgh have alot of witchcraft and occult history.

I know that Orthodox Christians bury people that committed suicide in a separate area of the graveyard, alone. Possibly that explains the distance away from the others?

I would be really surprised if the Church didn't have records of who was buried in that plot. There would have to be some catastrophe or something as that's important for them to maintain. The Rev might be shoo'ing you along, not wanting to spend any time to find out who it is.

Tell the Rev you're going to try and contact some descendants and see if they'll replace the headstone. You could also take up a collection to do it, along with a story of the person buried there. That would be a cool project.

a reply to: noeltrotsky

Could you link me to any site or book that explains orthodox christian burial rites and customs in the UK or specifically Scotland? I'm interested you see. Though if turned out it was because they killed themselves, its really sad that they seperated them and then defaced their grave

I have pretty much no information at all as to who this person was or what they did, perhaps when I do something appropriate will come to mind, but until then im not gonna put myself out there for anything other than my curiosity.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky
I know that Orthodox Christians bury people that committed suicide in a separate area of the graveyard, alone. Possibly that explains the distance away from the others?..

Was going to say the same thing. I wasn't aware it was something particular to denominations though.

a reply to: TheUsersName

From what I know all grave space inside of the borders of the church grave yard, especially in an old church such as this one, would have been for sanctified (accepted) persons only.

Suspected witches, murderers, suicides, unwed mothers who died during child birth (and infant) and the like would not be buried on sanctified church grounds.
They would have been buried outside of the officially sancitioned area.

a reply to: grubblesnert

Thank you for the info, I should know most likely then that the person buried their was not known to have done anything significant enough to have been punished like that at the time. Do you think its possible that the person had died before their crime (if one was ever committed) had been found out, and so they took out some sort of revenge there after?

Do you have any information regarding people wrongly buried in a sanctioned or non-sanctioned area and what the outcomes where?

a reply to: TheUsersName

Yes, It's possible that they were vilified so to say after their interment. (good guess on your part:up

As far as me having furthure knowledge on this subject?

Sorry, You now know everything that I know!
Hint: History shows on TV..... Gives a person superficial smarts.

a reply to: TheUsersName

I'm going to say antisemitism plays a part here.

a reply to: TheUsersName

Well I've walked in Orthodox Christian graveyards where suicides were buried 'outside' the fence.
Here's the main info you're looking for I think...
en.wikipedia.org...
Wow Wiki even has a listing for this...crazy!

This Catholic church says suicides are welcome on their grounds...so it is specific to religious beliefs.
www.holycrosscemeteries.com...

Jewish faith also 'separates' suicides from others...and a whole bunch of other technical rules. The suicide issues is mentioned about 1/2 way through this article.
www.ou.org...

a reply to: TheUsersName

How long has the Rev. been there? Perhaps it's a prior Rev. that was exiled in death?

Could it be a pauper's grave?

Please keep us posted on your quest. Good luck!