The number of the beast 666 and the chip used for animal tags

a reply to: ketsuko

Ok. Let me explain myself a bit better since I wasn't entirely clear. The bible says that the mark will be in the forehead or the hand which means that there will be people wondering the earth with the mark on their forehead and there will be people wondering the earth with it on their hand. In other words, they have a choice of placement in either of those two places.

The RFID chip would likely be standardized so that EVERYONE would be wondering the world with the chip in the same spot as everyone else. There will be no choice, because if maintenance needs to be performed on the chip, it helps to know exactly where it is placed in the body.

ETA: Also, keep in mind that if I'm wrong and the chip placement isn't standardized, then people could easily just get them where ever on their body they want to get them. Kind of like piercings.

originally posted by: violet

originally posted by: caladonea
a reply to: violet

Right now...that is not true...people can always use cash.

For now they can yes, but the cashless society is already being phased in.

Exactly how is a cashless society being phased in? What are digital credits?

Right now to pay for things people have debit cards, credit cards, checks, money orders or cash...are you saying all those choices are going to be legally taken away?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ketsuko

Ok. Let me explain myself a bit better since I wasn't entirely clear. The bible says that the mark will be in the forehead or the hand which means that there will be people wondering the earth with the mark on their forehead and there will be people wondering the earth with it on their hand. In other words, they have a choice of placement in either of those two places.

Yeah...except not so much in a literal sense.

The passage about the mark is written in Koine referencing a Hebrew text (or several of them) and thus it's a little blurry after going from Hebrew to Koine to English. However, if you were Orthodox, or if you had been a Jew in the time when John of Patmos wrote this, the reference would have been familiar to you:

"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your being, and all your might. These words that I am commanding you today must always be on your minds. Recite them to your children. Talk about them when you are sitting around your house and when you are out and about, when you are lying down and when you are getting up. Tie them on your hand as a sign. They should be on your forehead as a symbol. Write them on your house’s doorframes and on your city’s gates."

Here's one with the Koine in the middle left out. This is the reference in Deuteronomy 6. John of Patmos, whom one can likely assume is Jewish, or was before conversion to Christianity, is interpreting 'charagma' which is translated as 'mark' in the KJB, as the same thing as a tefillin, which is described here. Deuteronomy 6 is interpreted as meaning literally to wear the word of God on your forehead and hand. So it's an item of common religious wear in this time, called a tefillin, there is also something called a mezuzah which addresses the doorframe issue. A tefillin is two little boxes made in a very specific way, worn in a very specific way, which contain particular verses from the Torah written on special parchment with special ink. And one is worn on the forehead, and the other on an arm, although the Torah passages which dictate this behavior always use the word for 'hand'.

So, the "mark o' beast" is described in the same way as a tefillin. Why would it also be called a 'charagma' (which is the Koine word used by JoP)? Charagma can mean a lot of things. When you say (maybe) that you've made your mark on something, that's derivative from this. It's the same meaning of 'mark'. It can also mean an engraving, or a tattoo, or a binding oath, or something that indicates you belong to a particular group, or something very like a notary's seal, or a contract.

In the context of a tefillin or other phylactery, it's likely that the "mark" is the Beast's version of the Torah verses in a tefillin, the 'mark o' beast' is something metaphorically equivalent to a Jewish tefillin, only for the other side, as it were.

What is the reason for a tefillin, then? It was to announce to everyone a binding commitment to your belief in God, and that you carried his word on your hand (deed) and forehead (thought). The "mark" in this case, being a tefillin for the beast, is similar. A spiritual commitment to the Beast. With maybe some outward sign to show everyone, the way a charagma was for a Roman soldier, which would be something like a unit patch on the shoulder of your uniform. Roman Legion had the same thing - a mark on your shoulder called a charagma that designated your unit.

But it could also be a tat, a physical mark, or just a binding contract. At any rate, you have to understand what JoP was talking about before you wander too far afield in speculation. Go bone up on tefillin and mazuzeh first - then what was a charagma in the time that JoP lived.

a reply to: Bedlam

You just blew my mind so it may not be physical at all? Just a commitment to Satan?

originally posted by: christophoros
a reply to: Bedlam

You just blew my mind so it may not be physical at all? Just a commitment to Satan?

In some contexts, 'charagma' might be a verbal oath. Or an armband. Or a heartfelt total commitment. Or a tat, or a scar, or a signature, or a binding contract. Or a seal on a contract by the State. Or an assignment to a military unit. Or an engraving. Maybe there's a context where you could interpret it as a device stuck into your flesh but that wouldn't be anything I've ever seen.

But, yeah, the original context for the description of the mark is the injunction to keep the Lord's word in your thoughts and deeds. This appears several times in the Torah/OT, with slightly varied wording, and was interpreted to mean literally strapping on Torah verses to your head and hand to signify your sincerity.

Given that JoP put the meaning of charagma in his context as being like a tefillin/phylactery I'd say it's likely more a really gung-ho commitment, with maybe an identifier to announce you're a member of the Beast's group.

originally posted by: caladonea

originally posted by: violet

originally posted by: caladonea
a reply to: violet

Right now...that is not true...people can always use cash.

For now they can yes, but the cashless society is already being phased in.

Exactly how is a cashless society being phased in? What are digital credits?

Right now to pay for things people have debit cards, credit cards, checks, money orders or cash...are you saying all those choices are going to be legally taken away?

I mean paper money and coins will cease to be used. As it stands now they aren't used much. You don't see it phasing out?

Digital credits would be how much money you have. Let's say you've got a 1000 digital credits to your name or a $1000 if you want to use old terms, then you wouldn't open your wallet to buy something, you wave a card or your RFID CHIP over the reader to use your credits. I can't explain it properly. It just means you have credits to use and they would be widely accepted everywhere.

This already exists to some degree. How can you not see it going further?

Further reading on this link

originally posted by: christophoros
a reply to: Bedlam

You just blew my mind so it may not be physical at all? Just a commitment to Satan?

I thought the marks ( forehead or right hand) were to be given to those worshipping the antichrist ?

Either way it's all speculation

Just a thought .....


What if the mark of the beast is actually what it says, a ' mark' , meaning currency.
Since the mark has often been used as a unit of currency in many nations. That might explain all the buying, selling wording.

Then somehow you carry this currency around with you on the hand or forehead. Maybe they're shares in the antichrists stock. He says, here's a bit for you, and for you, for you and so on. It's a gift ( but not really). Greedy ones will take anything.

a reply to: Bedlam

Well that was very educating and I did not know any of that. Your interpretation certainly disproves the OP. As it were, most marks involving technology involve duplicity. One doesn't know they are swearing allegiance to Satan upon getting the chip implanted in them. This interpretation literally says you would know the same way you know if you worship god or not. Basically, the world will become a world of Satanists (real Satanists though, not the atheist Satanists of recent years).

To be honest, I think such readings make the book of revelation impossible. The world has never been united in one religion. Christians lament that the end times are near, but they are currently the religion with the most worshipers in the world. In order for Revelation to happen, that religion needs to be Satanists, and not deceitful, hide in the shadows, Satanists; but Satanists who are proud of their religion so much so that they display it for the world to see. Satanism (even atheist Satanism) is but a blip of the worldwide religions. It's got a LONG way to go to achieve what the BoR wants. It just isn't feasible nor likely.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

There is nothing that says the final one world religion has to be openly Satanist. There is an element of deception involved, enough that even the so-called elect are deceived. The Beast will be able to present himself as a messiah, so people are not going to think of him as an evil man at all, but someone more like Obama was presented, a light-bringer, a transformative man who will solve all our problems.

Then when he has the power he needs, the mask will slip and the ugliness beneath will be revealed. But even then, I don't think he'll start requiring people to go around chanting "Hail, Satan!" It's enough that he will claim himself to be god or a god and demand that we all worship him as he were the only god. And if you refuse, you will be persecuted, even to death.

It would not be beyond someone with that kind of hubris to decide to make access to a cashless system dependent upon a visible mark on someone's head or hand and then to make an RFID chip part of it to further persecute those who refuse to comply.

Yes, the mark is voluntary. Really, it is. Just like Obamacare is voluntary. Really, it is. And no, I don't think Obama is the anti-Christ. It's just easy to use him as a relevant and timely example of how things can be demagogued and people swayed into things that maybe aren't so good for them or as true as they might wish.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Krazysh0t

There is nothing that says the final one world religion has to be openly Satanist. There is an element of deception involved, enough that even the so-called elect are deceived. The Beast will be able to present himself as a messiah, so people are not going to think of him as an evil man at all, but someone more like Obama was presented, a light-bringer, a transformative man who will solve all our problems.

I'm pretty sure the idea that you need the mark to buy or sell anything and the fact that the mark is a symbol of your religious devotion to Satan pretty much says, that yes Satanism will be the one world religion.

Then when he has the power he needs, the mask will slip and the ugliness beneath will be revealed. But even then, I don't think he'll start requiring people to go around chanting "Hail, Satan!" It's enough that he will claim himself to be god or a god and demand that we all worship him as he were the only god. And if you refuse, you will be persecuted, even to death.

It would not be beyond someone with that kind of hubris to decide to make access to a cashless system dependent upon a visible mark on someone's head or hand and then to make an RFID chip part of it to further persecute those who refuse to comply.

But this contradicts EVERYTHING that bedlam just said about the mark. You are inventing your own theocracy to make a stupid story sound more plausible and likely, but that was never in the text.

Yes, the mark is voluntary. Really, it is. Just like Obamacare is voluntary. Really, it is.

That's not how voluntary works.

a reply to: Awen24

Correct, The Mark of the Beast is one of ownership. In bible times a brand was placed on the hands of slaves or on beasts. This mark was to be clear for all to see. The beast is not just *a* country. Its the one world government U.N. The conditions around this is Rev. 6:1 1st. seal). A surprise massive property confiscation to God by an legal act. 2nd seal). A civil war as a responce to the loss. That after results in an invasion by the UN military. 3rd seal). The confiscation of all food. Then controls for its payment. This is where the Mark of the Beast starts. The conditions then may not even support computer chips. 4th. Seal). Rev. 6:8,9. The mass murder of all Christians by beheading. At this time the Vatican takes over. The reaction by God is a pole shift that destroys the USA. The reason the mass murder takes place on only 25% of the earth. Is it is a Kill Zone that were in. Is an long term planned ambush. That in the end traps a person inside it. On this scale. The objective would be to use an economic event to close all banks. Turn the public first on it self.... Because it will become as degraded legally and morally. As Sodom or before Noahs flood.... God starts the Tribulation (not in the flesh as the later 2nd coming). But as just an legal act.