What Individualism Is Not • Frank Chodorov

a reply to: daskakik

Everything and everybody.

a reply to: greencmp

So what are you complaining about?

I doubt that even those at the Mises Institute would agree with this definition of markets, free or otherwise.

a reply to: daskakik

I am at a loss, I hope you figure out what I was trying to say for all of our sakes.

originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: Gryphon66

That is the evidence against their eradication which would be required by any planned system.

I want them and see them everywhere, even in the trading of benefits for sick days or dump rights between towns. States will negotiate for water rights, etc.

Competition is a mainstay of human existence and cannot be subdued.

So, no examples then, even on a neighborhood level?

That's really surprising for such an obviously superior economic system.

a reply to: greencmp

I understand what you are saying but you can't seem to grasp that anarcho-capitalism is pie in the sky.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: Gryphon66

That is the evidence against their eradication which would be required by any planned system.

I want them and see them everywhere, even in the trading of benefits for sick days or dump rights between towns. States will negotiate for water rights, etc.

Competition is a mainstay of human existence and cannot be subdued.

So, no examples then, even on a neighborhood level?

That's really surprising for such an obviously superior economic system.

Neighborhood level is as easy as any to find examples of.

For instance, the children from the town over who have a work ethic and wish to augment their cumulative income will offer to shovel snow at a discounted rate to your own lazy good for nothing rotten kids. (just having fun with the example)

That free market adjustment will put your town's kids out of work for the duration of the snowstorm thus perhaps even creating a "monopoly". But, you got your driveways shoveled at a much more equitable price.

Incidentally, the interventionist solution to this sort of thing is to make some law or set of laws incompatible with the competing market laborers. That is how our distorted market works when government is allowed to make arbitrary determinations, this is the definition of crony capitalist and it has nothing to do with capitalism or free markets.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: greencmp

I understand what you are saying but you can't seem to grasp that anarcho-capitalism is pie in the sky.

It sounds like I have at least been able to communicate my position, thank you.

The last argument against freedom that I can't give an unequivocal answer to is the claim that it just won't work because.

a reply to: greencmp

So, still no significant examples of the Free Market operating on any kind of reasonable scale for any municipality, county, State or nation?

You're still talking about kids? How cute. How many years can the kids sustain themselves on the dollars their enterprise yields? How will they maintain the infrastructure of the very streets that serve as their market-base with their income/profits?

Not something I'd try to convert a national economy to without better operative evidence though.

(BTW, I'd put my theoretical "kids" up against yours any day; they're realists.)

a reply to: Gryphon66

What are you talking about?

If you don't want to have specific down to earth easy to understand simplistic examples that even a child could comprehend, why are you asking for them?

originally posted by: greencmp
The last argument against freedom that I can't give an unequivocal answer to is the claim that it just won't work because.

Right, because despite the AC claim that people will always act right, places with lax laws usually have sights like the one in the following post:
Littered street

originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: Gryphon66

What are you talking about?

If you don't want to have specific down to earth easy to understand simplistic examples that even a child could comprehend, why are you asking for them?

Ah, that's cute. I simply asked you for any concrete, real-world evidence for any successful implementations of the philosophy you're fronting for on any meaningful scale.

Having none, you want to talk about the equivalent of lemonade stands.

It would have been sufficient to state that this is simply theory that has not been proven to work anywhere at any time in the real world.

That would have been quite enough. Although, it's obvious to everyone, I wanted to give you a chance.

Enjoy your theorizing.

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: greencmp
The last argument against freedom that I can't give an unequivocal answer to is the claim that it just won't work because.

Right, because despite the AC claim that people will always act right, places with lax laws usually have sights like the one in the following post:
Littered street

I hope you aren't trying to tell me that Mexico is a libertarian free market.

"In debates between anarchists and statists, the burden of proof clearly should rest on those who place their trust in the state. Anarchy’s mayhem is wholly conjectural; the state’s mayhem is undeniably, factually horrendous."

-Robert Higgs

a reply to: Gryphon66

True enough, I can't produce enough evidence of a stated unknowable.

a reply to: greencmp

No, it is an example of people not acting right on a personal level.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: greencmp

No, it is an example of people not acting right on a personal level.

Usually people don't act responsibly because they think there will be no repercussions. That is not to say that they necessarily would leave trash on the ground if there was no state waste removal authority, I propose that they would not.

It is the presence of a tax payer funded trash service that allows people to just drop it on the ground and believe that the appropriate authorities will take care of it. There happens to be a similar effect in charitable giving when you tax away the discretionary funds which would have been allocated to giving. People think that their taxes have paid for the social services for the needy and make no further effort.

a reply to: greencmp

Guess you didn't read what was in that post. There is no tax payer funded trash service there are only private services. The AC claim that people will always do the right thing without coercion is proven wrong, in the real world.

ETA: And before you waste your time looking up mexican specific situations I would like to point out that that particular picture is only an illustration of what I have seen in many parts of latin america in general and the situation of trash services particular to where I live and some other places I know about.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: greencmp
In the real world humans are a little less perfect than AC needs. Some a lot less perfect.

You have to get everyone to respect everyone elses freedoms. That is the reason no other system works either.

AC has any groupings of people that is voluntary.

Roving gangs have no economic value, and would all be killed in the act of aggression, eventually.

Roving gangs would have been dealt with a long time ago, if we had been AC all along. People growing up in AC would naturally be rational, like the way the brain was made for.

People act on what they believe. Everyone would believe a lot more useful truth growing up in AC.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: greencmp

Guess you didn't read what was in that post. There is no tax payer funded trash service there are only private services. The AC claim that people will always do the right thing without coercion is proven wrong, in the real world.

So, someone has been hired to do a job and has not provided that service, fire them.

I am sure there are plenty of people who would like to be paid to take that trash away.

If it remains, you must ask the question why. Is there an easy way to offer trash pickup services to home owners in that town?

I would imagine it is not or else some one else would pick up the contract and do a better job.

Do you fear your local police?

a reply to: greencmp

You're just making excuses. The service exists but you have to pay. People choose to litter instead of doing the right thing. That is an example of freedom in the real world.

a reply to: Semicollegiate

A whole lot of wishful thinking.

If AC was the norm and it worked so well, why isn't it more common?