Atheist, Politics and God

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Atheism is the best thing that can happen to a country despite the crap the OP is trying to sell everyone.

Krazy, krazy, krazy...

It's been tried, my friend. No; atheism is exactly the worst thing that could happen to a country. Secular? Sure. Atheistic? Never. I mean look at Russia. It's more orthodox now than it ever was. Despite years and years of promoting atheism, it's now worse off in terms of orthodoxy than it was before. The same with Cambodia. The same with Albania. Atheism, in political practice, actually creates more orthodoxy.

a reply to: undo

not only that, many scientific breakthroughs arose from christian scholars and scientisits.

Yes, and they were not using Christianity when they made those 'breakthroughs'. They were using science. Additionally, let's not downplay say the stem cell research issue. This area of research has tremendous potential and is largely opposed not by sound science but with religious belief.

As one example:

In 2001, President George W. Bush restricted federal funding for research on stem cells obtained from human embryos because the technology required the destruction of human life. “At its core, this issue forces us to confront fundamental questions about the beginnings of life and the ends of science,” Bush said.

“My position on these issues is shaped by deeply held beliefs,” he said. “I also believe human life is a sacred gift from our creator.”

a reply to: undo

Hey the data doesn't lie, your political rhetoric not withstanding.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I mean look at Russia. It's more orthodox now than it ever was.

Yeah the Christian kind of orthodoxy.

Survey conducted in 2012 shows 41% Russian Orthodox, and atheists at 13% Link

a reply to: AinElohim

I'm not sure what you are complaining about here with your rant. Regardless of how you feel you are being oppressed, you live in one of the most accessible countries in the world. You can go anywhere, do anything, with few limitations. Yes, some of that is more expensive than it should be, but nothing is perfect. Not to mention we are always trying to improve on it. The benefits that secular nations offer FAR outpace the freedoms theocracies have been known to offer.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Krazysh0t


can you explain the "fiery" hole that opens in the sky in ezekiel, which appears in the distance at first, as a whirling cloud mass? or what about enoch's account of a super massive black hole? they just making this stuff up off the top of their heads?

Possibly. Can you prove that it is anything but that?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Krazysh0t


can you explain the "fiery" hole that opens in the sky in ezekiel, which appears in the distance at first, as a whirling cloud mass? or what about enoch's account of a super massive black hole? they just making this stuff up off the top of their heads?

Possibly. Can you prove that it is anything but that?

have you read the enoch account?

mouse on the fritz

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

who said christians weren't interested in science? there's a difference between a scientific dictatorship where only one group gets to say what is and isn't relevant (holy roman empire) and what happened after the doors of science flung open for everyone to enter and study. then they were slammed shut once again by yet another scientific dictatorship. you should know better than anyone in this thread, that just because the mainstream says so, doesn't make it fact. isn't that what we've been discussing this entire time? that position is not isolated to just one world view.

originally posted by: AinElohim
They want to destroy the relationship that the individual has with God, and that which is the individuals highest moral authority. A relationship so special that it is the one thing we have which helps us keep governments in check.

Oh ye of little faith.

For tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of years, Humanity has revolved around God, through simplistic, innocent, primordial shamanism/animism. Tribes of people immersed in fully-functional mythologies revolving around the archetype, the mythologem, at the center of the human psyche. The relationship of the individual to God and nature was at it's peak for untold millennia.

It was great. I ache for those days.

But it's all meaningless stagnation without contrast. Which this age of alienation from God and nature provides. Meaning.

Don't worry. The creative principle will never run dry. So put up with this painful age. It's worth it. This age wouldn't be, unless God wanted it.

👣

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I think you are cherry picking examples where it was carried out to an extreme conclusion. As a means of looking at things in perspective, name ONE theocracy that was a pillar of morality, peace, social mobility, freedom, and progressive ideals. Even during the Renaissance, Christians were oppressing Jews.

Here's the thing, you can find a few bad atheist countries, but literally ALL theocratic countries are bad. Progress of freedoms traditionally comes in SPITE of religion.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I think you are cherry picking examples where it was carried out to an extreme conclusion. As a means of looking at things in perspective, name ONE theocracy that was a pillar of morality, peace, social mobility, freedom, and progressive ideals. Even during the Renaissance, Christians were oppressing Jews.

Here's the thing, you can find a few bad atheist countries, but literally ALL theocratic countries are bad. Progress of freedoms traditionally comes in SPITE of religion.

depending on the pharaoh and the timeframe, some of those dynasties seemed pretty fair and equitable.

argh this mouse double click issue is driving me bonkers.
sorry double post

originally posted by: undo

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Krazysh0t


can you explain the "fiery" hole that opens in the sky in ezekiel, which appears in the distance at first, as a whirling cloud mass? or what about enoch's account of a super massive black hole? they just making this stuff up off the top of their heads?

Possibly. Can you prove that it is anything but that?

have you read the enoch account?

I didn't start on ATS yesterday... Of course I am familiar with that account. I asked if you can prove that it is anything but something thought up in someone's mind. Just because it is similar to an actual scientific concept doesn't implicitly rule out that the guy just imagined it.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: undo

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Krazysh0t


can you explain the "fiery" hole that opens in the sky in ezekiel, which appears in the distance at first, as a whirling cloud mass? or what about enoch's account of a super massive black hole? they just making this stuff up off the top of their heads?

Possibly. Can you prove that it is anything but that?

have you read the enoch account?

I didn't start on ATS yesterday... Of course I am familiar with that account. I asked if you can prove that it is anything but something thought up in someone's mind. Just because it is similar to an actual scientific concept doesn't implicitly rule out that the guy just imagined it.

every key description is there - the ascending and descending radiation jets (he called columns of heavenly fire, ascending and descending for as far as the eye could see), the abyss lacking a firmament (no stars), earth or water or animals (just a black hole)) , surrounded by the fiery rotating disk over which stars were rolling that were caught in the gravity well of the black hole, which is described in the text as the prison house of the stars. lol

a reply to: undo

I know. I get it. I still can't accept it is anything more than a coincidence until you can produce contemporary evidence that shows he was privy to information that other people of his time didn't have.

originally posted by: AinElohim
Show me christians killing in the name of god conquest style or to suppress science.

Here is that thread I was working on:

Adolf Hitler's Views on Origins and Evolution

You will see that Adolf Hitler, and many high ranking officials were Christians.

Albeit, their own crazy interpretation of what that meant.

borggg, borggg.

Is the OP unwilling to address that which he asked for and was provided?

Christian conquests after the 18 century?