Ben Carson: Religion is needed to interpret science because ‘maybe it’s just propaganda’

a reply to: olaru12

Considering religion convictions were a driving force behind open criticism of such scientific "miracles" as lobotomies and their chemical (and presently "acceptable") equivalent SSRI/Antidepressants... I think the western world is far too gulible and the present definition of "science" is intentionally too vast for Carson's comments to not be seen as accurate.

I'd happily vote for the man.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Religion convictions are also a driving force behind Climate Change denialism and trying to have science removed from the classrooms.

a reply to: olaru12

Another thing comes to mind. Science is too important to be left to the mercy of the mainstream. It needs to be guided, inspired, and challenged from outside itself.

But, mainstream Christianity is not up to that task, imo.

For the job of guidance and inspiration of science, I nominate the sci-fi / comic-book genre. It has been inspiring scientists for a long time, and it has unexplored dimensions of esoteric meaning.

For the job of challenging mainstream science, I nominate parapsychology.

"I have always seen parapsychology as the "earthing" of the spiritual. In our experiments we explore the psychic in a very logical, rational, exoteric manner. We assign clearly demonstrable proof ratings to the different variables. In such a manner we have inadvertently confirmed many spiritual teachings, for example that one's attitude or belief about something may actually affect the occurrence of that particular matter. Faith, it used to be called, although now it is "the sheep-goat effect," was said to be able to move mountains. Jesus spoke quite extensively on the incredible effect of faith, which has now become transmuted into attitude, and the Hindus have a spiritual path centered around faith called Bhakti Yoga. Our modern terms are more applicable to our present society, but underneath the change in terminology the concept lives on.

Another example of the "earthing of a religious concept" occurs when doing a ganzfeld or other free-response experiment. The first thing the participant is taught to do is to become aware of the content of their mind. This action is what the Christians call contemplation and the Buddhists call mindfulness, and it is the first step in meditation, the first step in learning how to develop one's mind. The state of consciousness that the ganzfeld induces is to be found in quite a number of different religions as well, albeit induced in radically different methods, such as getting up and chanting at 3 a.m. the point in common with all these methods is the aim to create a state of consciousness whereby the conscious mind is stopped, thus allowing one to access material from the collective unconscious."

-Serena Roney-Dougal

👣

a reply to: luthier

freedoms came from christians? uh, christians practiced slavery for centuries, and not just in this country. in fact, the southern baptist church split from the main branch to use the bible to justify slavery!

a reply to: BlueMule

There are actually 2 republicans that are cool, the rest suck. I can see why you feel that way, but look to your left, Hiliary Clinton ? Joe Biden ?eeew. Carson is a terrible speaker, for that alone he is out soon. What he said sounds backwards.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Religion convictions are also a driving force behind Climate Change denialism and trying to have science removed from the classrooms.

*Recognize that I am among those who do not believe the manipulated "science" indicates human-caused climate change. For the record, I am a Civil Engineer, which means a sizeable portion of my education and background is in environmental engineering. That is also why I believe this "consensus" is manipulated and non-existent in reality.

I'd question exactly how much true science is being removed from the classroom and how much of what is being questioned is revisionist agenda-driven "science." (like AGW! )

a reply to: olaru12

I wonder how religious beliefs would stand up to the "scientific method" and investigation rather than just faith? Would Dr. Carson be willing to hold religion to the same standard and allow religion to be tested as well? I doubt it....

Religious beliefs are theological while science claims absolute facts. Something like global warming and drowning polar bears. You know that thingy that Albert the Gore got rich on? Or maybe that other scientific thingy of how we prove that this world was here some billions of years ago. Still working the calendar on that one. The best one for last year was wonder boy Hawking certifying the universe is the creator. That was really a good one. The grants are getting more scarce so you know the spooks will find anything to get another free grant.

I will admit that we are due for another new bible so that the authors can copyright it and make a few million bucks. I have never been controlled by religion so can't really say how that would work but I do hear a lot about this Muhammad guy and how his ole bones will pop up out of a well. Or something like that. Any way Jesus is a thing of the past so don't know what ATS will do when its not fun anymore to crap on Him.

Three pages and no one has said it?

It's all propaganda. Religion, science, government, philosophy, art--all of it. The institutions that define and maintain these aspects of our culture are all incurably corrupt and have had to distract and lie to us about everything for thousands of years to keep us under control.

You're no safer trusting your government than you are trusting your religions (I'm speaking of the institutions here). But here we are, debating it once again, as if they weren't both completely impotent and in fact counterproductive to humanity's development.

It's all propaganda, folks. The preachers are manipulating you. The scientists are manipulating you. The politicians are manipulating you. Your teachers are manipulating you.

It's brilliant how they can get people to focus on only one or two things and never see the big picture.

Science is nothing more then the endevour to understand the laws which God used to make and govern the Universe...


me

a reply to: burdman30ott6

How the Religious Right Is Fueling Climate Change Denial
America's theologians of climate science denial

You may think it isn't real science, but these are the people you keep camp with. People who deny evolution also deny climate change. Evolution deniers don't know science, so I doubt they are familiar enough with the science of climate change to know if it is wrong or not.

originally posted by: olaru12

A possible Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson suggested over the weekend that religion was necessary for testing scientific theories because the science could be “propaganda.”

On Sunday, NBC’s Chuck Todd asked Carson, a former neurosurgeon, how science could coexist with his conservative Christian principles.

I wonder how religious beliefs would stand up to the "scientific method" and investigation rather than just faith? Would Dr. Carson be willing to hold religion to the same standard and allow religion to be tested as well? I doubt it....

“I find, a very good measure of correlation between my religious beliefs and my scientific beliefs — people say, how can you be a scientist, how can you be a surgeon if you don’t believe in certain things?” he continued. “Maybe those things aren’t scientific. Maybe it’s just propaganda.”

Anythings possible but imo most religious beliefs are precisely "propaganda" to control individual thought into a narrow cosmology.
Ben Carson as POTUS could be the first step into a Theocracy. "Burn the Witch"

www.rawstory.com...

There is no difference between science and spirituality. There however a difference between spirituality and religion...

originally posted by: olaru12
I wonder how religious beliefs would stand up to the "scientific method" and investigation rather than just faith? Would Dr. Carson be willing to hold religion to the same standard and allow religion to be tested as well? I doubt it....

As long as you're willing to put them both to the test. Science doesn't hold up to a scientific standard. You can't prove, scientifically, that the basic principles upon which science works actually work. They're just assumptions.

Anythings possible but imo most religious beliefs are precisely "propaganda" to control individual thought into a narrow cosmology.
Ben Carson as POTUS could be the first step into a Theocracy. "Burn the Witch"

Without endorsing Mr. Carson's perspective, what's so far-fetched about this? If religious beliefs can be used to control people, what about scientific ones? Back in the day, "scientific" beliefs about race were used to control people.

originally posted by: StalkerSolent
As long as you're willing to put them both to the test. Science doesn't hold up to a scientific standard. You can't prove, scientifically, that the basic principles upon which science works actually work. They're just assumptions.

I'm willing to put them both to the test, or at least, your claim:

Would you please provide evidence for your claim that "Science doesn't hold up to a scientific standard."

As well, would you demonstrate that:

"You can't prove, scientifically, that the basic principles upon which science works actually work."

originally posted by: Gryphon66

Sure thing. Science uses inductive reasoning to come to its conclusions. But there is no proof or evidence for inductive reasoning outside of inductive reasoning itself. That's circular reasoning, which is a fallacy.

The moral to this story is that, as I believe I mentioned, science rests upon foundational "pre-scientific) principles, if you will.

a reply to: olaru12

This guy sounds perfect for the GOP. I'm surprized he's not already a 'well respected advisor' to Congress on scientific matters. There's no better way to get ahead in this world than to deny things one doesn't agree with. Embarrassing morons that bring us all down.

The first thing that came to my mind was Dr. Zaius.

And before any opportunists say it, no, it's not because he's black and zaius is an ape. If you've seen the movie you know his role in relation to science and religion.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: olaru12

Considering religion convictions were a driving force behind open criticism of such scientific "miracles" as lobotomies and their chemical (and presently "acceptable") equivalent SSRI/Antidepressants... I think the western world is far too gulible and the present definition of "science" is intentionally too vast for Carson's comments to not be seen as accurate.

I'd happily vote for the man.

They were also the force behind the persecution of Galileo. They are said alchemists were sorcerers, and would have prevented it's eventual evolution into chemistry if they had their way. They also believed sickness was caused by discontent in the spiritual realm. They are also standing in the way of stem cell research under the fear that "man is playing god". While Buddhists believe in meditation and have some scientific backing on it's effectiveness, some religious people believe meditation is a gate way for Satan. So whose religion are we going to respect more?

Many great religious scientists also fell victim to the god of the gaps and came up short in their research as a direct result.

I'd rather not have a priest in the lab determining if research is compatible with scripture while scientists try to prevent people from dying.

Please America i beg you DO NOT ALLOW THIS MAN TO BECOME POTUS!!!

I am so outraged, to the point that I need to scream, that not one person in the world believes in the truth.

Every single human being that the media portrays is a sinful obnoxious pitiful prideful devil! And they teach the world to be in the likeness of them! It outrages me so much that the rich people teach the world to be in the likeness of satan! I hate this generation with all of my being because they have been taught to hate me for being human!!!!!!! So I am hated for being a human and that is it!!!!!!! The more free I am in spirit to make my own decisions that are not ruled by their ignorance, pride, and control, the more they hate me!!!!!!!!!! That is how pitiful this generation has become.

a reply to: greyer

Which generation?
Carson's?