Fluoride in water is linked to thyroid problem which causes weight gain, depression and tiredness.

Without wanting the thread to get sent straight to the skunk works is it too crazy to suggest that the USA which does implement artificial fluridation has an obesity epidemic and also has a health system where illness makes big pharma big bucks?

a reply to: superman2012
Your suggested link:

cof-cof.ca... luoride-2005-382-151%E2%80%93161.pdf

"The hormonal status of the 90 sample children indicated that 49 (54.4%) had welldefined
hormonal derangements. In the remaining 41 children the findings were
borderline. The hormonal deviations among the affected 49 children fall into the
following five categories: (1) high TSH with normal FT4 and FT3 (46.9%); (2) normal
TSH and FT4 with low FT3 (32.7%); (3) high TSH and FT3 with normal FT4 (14.3%); (4)
high TSH with normal FT3 but low FT4 (4.1%); and (5) high TSH with normal FT4 but
low FT3 (2.0%). In control I and control II, similar hormonal deviations were detected
in as many as 50% and 45.4% of the children, respectively.

Even the control children nearly all had elevated levels of fluoride, and they nearly all had evidence of hypothyroidism---either elevated TSH or decreased T3 or T4 or all of the above.

By this study there appears to be a definite correlation between elevated fluoride and hypothyroidism.

Do you not even understand what you post?? You just post stuff that you claim proves the safety and effectiveness of fluoride, when it does no such thing.

a reply to: superman2012

The authors note theirs is an observational study, so no definitive conclusions can be drawn about cause and effect.

so no definitive conclusions can be drawn about cause and effect.

So you shouldn't be running around telling people how wonderful it is. It would be more ethical for the government to hand out tooth paste then to force it on people. Like I said in your other thread " put fluoride water on the shelf at the store." the entire argument here is not to force it on us..

Do you not even understand what you post??

Yes I do, maybe you started posting before my edits?? I meant to say that water fluoridation has not been shown to be the cause of any disease...not overdoses of fluoride.

By this study there appears to be a definite correlation between elevated fluoride and hypothyroidism.

Right, but not at levels of current water fluoridation. The levels were MUCH higher. I would expect some sort of showing of sickness at levels that high. The Harvard study already covered much of that. I'm actually surprised that only 49 of them had well-defined hormonal derangements!

What I post isn't meant to show that fluoride is safe at ANY level, it is meant to sift out the BS and fear that the uneducated spread because they saw a meme that scared them, or big words were used that they didn't understand.

originally posted by: SkipperJohn
a reply to: superman2012

The authors note theirs is an observational study, so no definitive conclusions can be drawn about cause and effect.

so no definitive conclusions can be drawn about cause and effect.

So you shouldn't be running around telling people how wonderful it is. It would be more ethical for the government to hand out tooth paste then to force it on people. Like I said in your other thread " put fluoride water on the shelf at the store." the entire argument here is not to force it on us..

So if I claim it will cause rheumatoid arthritis you will believe it until someone proves otherwise? I agree that there should be a better way, but this is the best way for now. This thread isn't about a choice, perhaps you missed the title so here it is again:

Fluoride in water is linked to thyroid problem which causes weight gain, depression and tiredness.

originally posted by: nonspecific
Without wanting the thread to get sent straight to the skunk works is it too crazy to suggest that the USA which does implement artificial fluridation has an obesity epidemic and also has a health system where illness makes big pharma big bucks?

If that were the case, why would they lower the acceptable limit?

I see you are not new to this debate Superman!, a few questions if I may as it looks as if you know your onions on the subject.

You mention that levels in the water are not high enough but what about when combined with other sources, does this make a difference.

Also do you not think it strange that scientists are still performing research on the subject if it has been proven safe enough to add to the water?

It does not bother me personally as I live in a naturally low flouride area.

a reply to: superman2012

originally posted by: superman2012

originally posted by: nonspecific
Without wanting the thread to get sent straight to the skunk works is it too crazy to suggest that the USA which does implement artificial fluridation has an obesity epidemic and also has a health system where illness makes big pharma big bucks?

If that were the case, why would they lower the acceptable limit?

Well as a conspiracy nut I would have to say either to throw you off the track or that they are sneaking it into other things as well

a reply to: nonspecific

I see you are not new to this debate Superman!, a few questions if I may as it looks as if you know your onions on the subject.

I'm sure as we run into eachother on here that you'll find I have opinions on everything! Some I just have more knowledge about than other subjects.

You mention that levels in the water are not high enough but what about when combined with other sources, does this make a difference.

Other sources of chemicals in the water or other sources of fluoride in daily life?

Also do you not think it strange that scientists are still performing research on the subject if it has been proven safe enough to add to the water?

Not at all. I can understand why they add it/added it while still believing that education and giving access to healthcare/dentalcare to people that need it would be better than adding it to the water. For now, it is the best way. I'm sure they'll come up with a better way..much like when someone discovered the wheel.

It does not bother me personally as I live in a naturally low flouride area.

Same, and what little there is in the water, our reverse osmosis water treatment plant takes out. That being said, it doesn't bother me one bit that there is fluoride in bottled water, food, soda pop, etc.

a reply to: superman2012

Sorry I meant the additional flouride found in toothpaste, mouth wash and whatever else they might be sticking it into?

a reply to: nonspecific
I'm not sure as I haven't come across a study that shows how much gets absorbed into the body by toothpaste, mouthwash, bottled water, soda, food, etc.

All I know is it would take around 50 cups of water to equal the fluoride found in a cucumber. I have links and the math shown in another thread if you would like me to post it here...I'll just have to find it.

a reply to: superman2012

I saw the thread it looks pretty big, I will go through it with a few beers this evening.

I did not know about cucumbers but tea has high levels of flouride, theres an interesting NHS link on a study here

a reply to: superman2012

Nm, misinterpretatation.

a reply to: superman2012

So if I claim it will cause rheumatoid arthritis you will believe it until someone proves otherwise?

No that would be a opinion. Not even a theory. For sure not even a study.. BUT!!! If you make a you tube video saying it will then it has to be true!

originally posted by: SkipperJohn
a reply to: superman2012

So if I claim it will cause rheumatoid arthritis you will believe it until someone proves otherwise?

No that would be a opinion. Not even a theory. For sure not even a study.. BUT!!! If you make a you tube video saying it will then it has to be true!

LMAO! It is already being embraced by the anti-fluoride group!
Link
I think a more appropriate question should be; What disease do they NOT link to fluoride!? lol What about people dealing with arthritis that don't live in cities with fluoride added?

I love the fear they spread.

To our SuperMan2012


From the CDC:
"This new information led HHS to propose changing the recommended level for community water systems to 0.7 milligrams per liter. The current recommended level is a range of 0.7 to 1.2 milligrams per liter."

The water concentrations of Fluoride from the India study you were quoting as erroneously showing no links of fluoride to hypothyroidism:
"The drinking water fluoride of the 90 children in the sample (dental fluorosis) group ranged from 1.1 to 14.3 mg F–/L (mean 4.37 mg F–/L)
The drinking water fluoride of the control 1 group (n = 10) ranged from 0.14 to 0.81mg F–/L (mean 0.23 mg F–/L) and that of the control II group (n = 11) ranged from 0.14to 0.73 mg F–/L (mean 0.41 mg F–/L).

The kicker: Even the kids that were drinking water with lower levels of fluoride than recommended by the CDC still had biochemical evidence of hypothyroidism.

" In control I and control II, similar hormonal deviations were detected in as many as 50% and 45.4% of the children, respectively"

It is impossible to look at this data and not realize that fluoride certainly appears to be linked to hypothyroidism--even at lower concentrations in drinking water than recommended.

a reply to: superman2012

I love how you keep on trying to justify a practise that most countries around the world find unjustifiable, regardless of potential health issues.

Is it a coincidence that someone who works at a water treatment plant, adding fluoride to the water, is trying to justify his job?

a reply to: Tusks
What were the deviations? I have been unable to find it in the control groups.

It's not impossible, but until all available information is actually available (all deviations) and any other factors eliminated from this study by observation, and then repeated, neither side can claim anything with 100% certainty. That's the crux with any claim, it has to be proven or dis proven. They haven't proven it, but that doesn't mean it is dis proven. All evidence so far says it isn't the case, but I'm not aware of any study that tries to prove the opposite of this claim.

originally posted by: DrChinstrap
a reply to: superman2012

I love how you keep on trying to justify a practise that most countries around the world find unjustifiable, regardless of potential health issues.

Is it a coincidence that someone who works at a water treatment plant, adding fluoride to the water, is trying to justify his job?

Is this true superman? Do you put fluride in the water for financial gain?

If so I think you should have mentioned that

originally posted by: DrChinstrap
a reply to: superman2012

I love how you keep on trying to justify a practise that most countries around the world find unjustifiable, regardless of potential health issues.

Is it a coincidence that someone who works at a water treatment plant, adding fluoride to the water, is trying to justify his job?

If you decided to follow the other threads or just do a little bit of ATS research on me, you should have realized that I don't work in a water treatment plant that fluoridates the water...

They don't find it unjustifiable, the people either voted it out or they fluoridated other products. As I have said many time, if they find a better practice, I'm all for it. For now, this is the best way to get it to people that can't afford proper dental care.