Fluoride in water is linked to thyroid problem which causes weight gain, depression and tiredness.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: peck420

originally posted by: SkipperJohn
You work in the water business so you should have access to this data. How much fluoride is coming out of your tap? And how can the average Joe test the levels themselves?

Drinking water test kits are sold at most building supply stores.

Check your local water authority's website for test data. I don't know about your area, but mine offers daily, monthly, and quarterly test reports.

If they don't have anything on their website, call and ask.

Of course you would have to be happy to belive the data that they release.

This is ATS after all. DTA.

You could also send it to independent third party labs, but again, if cost is an issue (and it shouldn't be if people are that afraid of it) then it would cost a bit depending on where you have to send it, as they usually would like the sample kept cold and received within 48 hours.

originally posted by: nonspecific
Of course you would have to be happy to belive the data that they release.

This is ATS after all. DTA.

It costs about $100 to have an independent lab cross check their data. Not exactly an industry that can hide in obscurity and falsifications.

Lol, and beaten to it again!

Superman, slow down a bit for all of us normal folk.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: SkipperJohn
a reply to: superman2012

You work in the water business so you should have access to this data. How much fluoride is coming out of your tap? And how can the average Joe test the levels themselves?

There is a simple test you can perform, just answer the following questions.

1. Are you fat?

2. Are you tired?

3 Are you depressed?

If you score 3 out of 3 there is too much flouride in your water supply.

Not far from the truth. Just one of the worse things about fluoride is this dampering effect on the thyroid---and IMO, the very worst is if this potential develops in a woman who is pregnant. Hypothyroid women give birth to mentally challenged infants. The worse cases in infants result in permanently stunted mental and physical growth, a condition called Cretinism. --- Now for SuperMan--- No, I don't have any papers on connecting Fluoridation to Cretinism---but, we've already seen there is an undeniable (at least to those of us who can reason) link between excess fluoride and hypothyroidism. And there is a definite link already known to Medicine for centuries between maternal hypothyroidism and Cretinism. We need to also remember that TPTB, who likely would have paid shills working on such topics such as this, have a certain interest in lowering the IQ of the general population---but that is another thread.

originally posted by: Tusks

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: SkipperJohn
a reply to: superman2012

You work in the water business so you should have access to this data. How much fluoride is coming out of your tap? And how can the average Joe test the levels themselves?

There is a simple test you can perform, just answer the following questions.

1. Are you fat?

2. Are you tired?

3 Are you depressed?

If you score 3 out of 3 there is too much flouride in your water supply.

Not far from the truth. Just one of the worse things about fluoride is this dampering effect on the thyroid---and IMO, the very worst is if this potential develops in a woman who is pregnant. Hypothyroid women give birth to mentally challenged infants. The worse cases in infants result in permanently stunted mental and physical growth, a condition called Cretinism. --- Now for SuperMan--- No, I don't have any papers on connecting Fluoridation to Cretinism---but, we've already seen there is an undeniable (at least to those of us who can reason) link between excess fluoride and hypothyroidism. And there is a definite link already known to Medicine for centuries between maternal hypothyroidism and Cretinism. TPTB, who certainly would have paid shills working on such threads as this, have a certain interest in lowering the IQ of the general population---but that is another thread.

I am happy for the thread to drift into other areas of possible effects of flouride as long as everyone keeps there heads and does not need the mods to get involved and members getting banned like other threads have done.

I'm not sure as the OP I can do this though?

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Tusks

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: SkipperJohn
a reply to: superman2012

You work in the water business so you should have access to this data. How much fluoride is coming out of your tap? And how can the average Joe test the levels themselves?

There is a simple test you can perform, just answer the following questions.

1. Are you fat?

2. Are you tired?

3 Are you depressed?

If you score 3 out of 3 there is too much flouride in your water supply.

Not far from the truth. Just one of the worse things about fluoride is this dampering effect on the thyroid---and IMO, the very worst is if this potential develops in a woman who is pregnant. Hypothyroid women give birth to mentally challenged infants. The worse cases in infants result in permanently stunted mental and physical growth, a condition called Cretinism. --- Now for SuperMan--- No, I don't have any papers on connecting Fluoridation to Cretinism---but, we've already seen there is an undeniable (at least to those of us who can reason) link between excess fluoride and hypothyroidism. And there is a definite link already known to Medicine for centuries between maternal hypothyroidism and Cretinism. TPTB, who certainly would have paid shills working on such threads as this, have a certain interest in lowering the IQ of the general population---but that is another thread.

I am happy for the thread to drift into other areas of possible effects of flouride as long as everyone keeps there heads and does not need the mods to get involved and members getting banned like other threads have done.

I'm not sure as the OP I can do this though?

OP, we're still talking about Fluoride and Thyroid function. Thyroid hormone has a profound effect on mental functioning. Cretinism is irreversible and is a horrible result of maternal hypothroidism. The amount of fluoride needed to cause observable thyroid problems in mildly iodine deficient population is very low: "Fluoride's suppressive effect on the thyroid is more severe when iodine is deficient, and fluoride is associated with lower levels of iodine.[28] Thyroid effects in humans were associated with fluoride levels 0.05–0.13 mg/kg/day when iodine intake was adequate and 0.01–0.03 mg/kg/day when iodine intake was inadequate." From Wiki

In a 50 kg woman, that would be as little as 0.5 mg---the amount that would be found in one liter of typical fluoridated water.

a reply to: Tusks
Important to note that thyroid problems, not thyroid disease was the issue on this study.

In a 50 kg woman, that would be as little as 0.5 mg---the amount that would be found in one liter of typical fluoridated water.

if she was iodine deficient.
If she wasn't iodine deficient, the levels would have to be 2.5mg to 6.5mg. The equivalent of drinking, and retaining all the fluoride in, 3.5 liters to 9 litres of fluoridated water. In the average person, the stomach can hold about one litre.
Not too many places are iodine deficient. Link

originally posted by: superman2012
a reply to: Tusks
Important to note that thyroid problems, not thyroid disease was the issue on this study.

In a 50 kg woman, that would be as little as 0.5 mg---the amount that would be found in one liter of typical fluoridated water.

if she was iodine deficient.
If she wasn't iodine deficient, the levels would have to be 2.5mg to 6.5mg. The equivalent of drinking, and retaining all the fluoride in, 3.5 liters to 9 litres of fluoridated water. In the average person, the stomach can hold about one litre.
Not too many places are iodine deficient. Link

Absolutely amazing. The dosage is in mg/kg/day. Not all at once in the stomach. Drinking 3.5 liters in ONE DAY would not only be easy, it would be normal. And at 0.7mg F/L, that 50 kg non-iodine deficient woman would still get a dose that is possible to cause effects on the thyroid.

a reply to: Tusks

I am a little uneducated on this subject, would that be aside from other sources of flouride like certain foodsfuffs that contain high levels of flouride and dental hygyne products?

originally posted by: Tusks

originally posted by: superman2012
a reply to: Tusks
Important to note that thyroid problems, not thyroid disease was the issue on this study.

In a 50 kg woman, that would be as little as 0.5 mg---the amount that would be found in one liter of typical fluoridated water.

if she was iodine deficient.
If she wasn't iodine deficient, the levels would have to be 2.5mg to 6.5mg. The equivalent of drinking, and retaining all the fluoride in, 3.5 liters to 9 litres of fluoridated water. In the average person, the stomach can hold about one litre.
Not too many places are iodine deficient. Link

Absolutely amazing. The dosage is in mg/kg/day. Not all at once in the stomach. Drinking 3.5 liters in ONE DAY would not only be easy, it would be normal. And at 0.7mg F/L, that 50 kg non-iodine deficient woman would still get a dose that is possible to cause effects on the thyroid.

Absolutely! I will own that fail for sure. Missed the /day on that one. Geez. Sorry about that.

At .7 mg/L, how much of one litre of that fluoride would not go directly to the thyroid and be passed through. Basically what I am asking is, how much fluoride is retained by the body that would affect the thyroid?

I only ask because you seem to have a better grasp on this subject than I.

Just for reference sake, here is the link to the drug they used in the early 20th century for thyroid problems, known by the name fluorotyrosine.
Link
and a common one in water fluoridation:
Link
We can see they are not the same chemical.

a reply to: superman2012

I am sorry about that but the way you were talking about the adding process and lots of stuff gave me the impression that it was not so foreign to you.

"At .7 mg/L, how much of one litre of that fluoride would not go directly to the thyroid and be passed through. Basically what I am asking is, how much fluoride is retained by the body that would affect the thyroid?" superman2012

I think what you really want to know is how much of an ingested dose of fluoride would be expected to end up in the thyroid.
The answer is--about the same percentage as would be expected for iodine. And what is that percentage? Well, it varies according to diet, gut transit time, hydration, previous iodine ingestion, and state of stimulation of the thyroid gland, amongst other things. When physicians are testing the thyroid gland, one of the tests done is called radioactive iodine uptake. The patient is given an oral dose of radioactive iodine, and then in 12-24 hours, the gland is scanned. Normal uptake is usually between 8% and 25%. People who are hyperthyroid will be making more thyroglobulin and take up a higher percentage. Hypothyroid, less. Ficticious hyperthyroidism (folks taking Thyroid/thyroxine and not telling)--less.
So if the person ingests, say, 2.0 mg F, then we might expect 8-25% to end up in the thyroid. RDA for iodine/iodide is about 12mg, and about half that is used by the thyroid.

Addendum:
Because of the structure of the hexafluorosilicate, I would guess the actual availability of the fluoride is considerably less per mg of total F than per mg of typical iodide compounds/salts.

a reply to: Tusks

Thanks for that!

a reply to: DrChinstrap

The process of adding a chemical isn't foreign to me, just the actual use of fluoride in water treatment plants is.

Just so you know; none of this is fact, I totally made it up as I went...

In hypothyroidism, the link to depression and fatigue is most likely related to reduced levels of serotonin and dopamine, respectively. To the contrary, being hyper might result in elevated levels which might therefore result in somebody being particularly happy and energetic. It is quite possible that children might regularly be diagnosed with ADHD whereas the reality is that they have an over-active thyroid, and vice-versa for incorrectly diagnosing clinical depression.

The primary purpose of the thyroid is related to metabolism. If hyper, one might often feel hungry and eat more frequently. They wouldn't necessarily gain weight because their body is working faster, thus increasing metabolism - in other words there will be a greater demand of fuel. If hypo, the opposite would be true in that food is broken-down more slowly. I'm unsure as to whether or not the phenomenon of feeling hungry or the lack of appetite is perceived, or if the body genuinely does/not require nourishment. Either way, if hyper there should be a good BMI, and likewise obesity would be a risk if hypo.

Problems with either the pituitary or pineal gland will likely have a direct impact upon the regulation of the entire endocrine system. Both of these glands can indeed be affected by elevated levels of fluoride. The thyroid is, of course, a part of that system. If the levels of a hormone is abnormal, a related organ might be adversely affected. For example, with hypothyroidism insulin might be affected and might therefore present the risk of diabetes.

Abnormal hormone levels can directly impact upon metabolism. Paradoxically, one's diet can directly affect how food is metabolised and, therefore, the levels and activity of hormones. Thus, there is potential for a vicious cycle in complicates cases. As an example, if one hormone is affected due to hypothyroidism which in turn affects insulin, the metabolism of carbohydrates and sugars is especially relevant. This is probably why where there is a link between hypothyroidism and obesity, because the body is not able to properly break down and store food.

I cannot say this as a certainty, but I'm considering that the most important hormone when it comes to metabolism is serotonin. I have personally known somebody with hyperthyroidism and, believe me, he was extremely hyperactive. He had no issues with socialising, but could not sit still for 5 minutes. He was like a bunny...happily hopping around all day long. So yeah, he probably had elevated levels of serotonin, and also dopamine. The reason for this would likely be that he was taking in a lot of tryptophan. This essential amino acid is abundant in food, which is firstly converted into tryptamine and then into serotonin. The body cannot produce its own serotonin, which is precisely why tryptophan is such an important part of the diet.

In the event that serotonin levels are abnormal, one's morale and satiety are least concerning. This hormone is especially important with regards to the efficacy of the immune system. Specifically, serotonin plays a major role in the production of inflammation, which is relevant to neutralising toxins and pathogens and also the response to injury (for example, after taking a slight knock the the skin will become inflamed). It cannot be overestimated that serotonin is extremely important regarding immune-response, so any problems could catastrophically impact upon our ability to fight an infection.

Serotonin is also involved in the regulation of blood pressure. Therefore, this will be relevant to people with a heart problem and those whom exercise regularly. This will apply to both, hyperthyroidism in relation to hyperactivity and obesity in hypothyroidism.

Suffice to say, the endocrine system is a very important part of our body and any abnormalities will be noticeable throughout the body. If we are taking in too much fluoride then the risk of health problems is a major concern, especially as our body ages.

In addition to our hormones, because fluoride is a very simple form of an element, that is fluorine, it can also have a considerable effect upon other elements and simple compounds within our body. As an example, there is a link between fluoride and the movement of aluminium within our gut. This makes me think of chelation, which can be very important in relation to treating cancer and metal poisoning. Given that aluminium has no known biological function, there might be places which the body does not expect it to turn up, and maybe the cognitive glands are good examples. It's worth considering that tea contains aluminium and so there must be regard for the safety of the water; not fully-boiling the kettle might increase the risks if fluoride is also present. A similar risk is citric acid, which also acts as a minor chelating agent; given that it is abundant in our diet and might commonly be mixed with cold water either for a beverage or as part of a recipe, this is also a risk with fluoride.

Yes, I honestly made all this up. I actually haven't even bothered to read the below article, but it looks slightly interesting...

Science and Reason - Stuff for Science Nerds
 

Let me throw my hat in on this:

Why put the fluoride in the water at all?

Think about where the water that comes into our homes goes; showers, baths, toilet flushes. Washing the dishes, the laundry and your car, heck, even the dog. We water our lawns & gardens, top up the fountain, the pond and fish tanks. There are floors to scrub and houseplants to water. And sometimes we even drink it and use it in cooking, ice cubes, etc.

My point is an average adult may drink 1-3 liters a day and I'll bet your lucky to get a child to drink 2 or 3 glasses of water. So effectively we are dumping this chemical back into our watershed to be taken up by the livestock, food crops and yes back into the water system to be wasted again on all the things mentioned above. Oh and yes a very small percentage of it being ingested. So think about your household, then your neighbour's, and the rest of your street. How many homes are in a subdivision, a small town, city, county or province/state. People may propose that the level in drinking water is negligible, safe if you will, but how much of this chemical keeps getting recycled back to our environment? I can't imagine that it gets filtered out of the waste water and pretty much any water used outside the home is absorbed back into the ground.

IMHO, if I wanted to get rid of a "product" why not add it to tap water since very little of it would wind up in the human body, but it effectively has disappeared, disposed of in an acceptable manner. Oh and yeah, they convince us that they are doing us a great service by medicating us against our will. "Look ma, no cavities!"

My 2 cents worth (which now is rounded down to nothing).

Namaste,
YogaGinns

ps: and for the record I am against municipal water fluoridation

a reply to: VigiliaProcuratio

Man, I would hate to think what you would come up with if you actually researched the topic.

I admire your honesty.

Namaste,
YogaGinns

a reply to: YogaGinns

Actually, I've done some leisurely research about serotonin as it's something which interests me greatly. I can't say much about the occurrence of fluoride in daily life or the effects it has in our body, but I think it's safe to say that problems with the endocrine system will have profound effects upon cognition, metabolism and immunity.

Now that I think about it, I'll simplify my understanding of this...

Fluoride inhibits secretion of serotonin in the brain and therefore the effects upon the thyroid could be considered a consequence.

Or do I have this completely wrong? I've actually confused myself now...