Non-Extraterrestrial UFO Hypotheses

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: Tangerine

Alright dude, so we can talk about the means by which they control but not the controllers themselves?

Yea from personal frightening experience they are here.. god knows why. They control through dreams and use archetypes and dream symbology to manipulate daily lives. All these mythologists were half right, these #en things use psychology and sleep with arechtypical imagery to maneuver their next step. Their means I understand their ends scare the living # out of me.

Read the Budden book in my signature line and many of your
questions about 'the Other' will be at least quasi-answered.

What most people don't know, because they are not liminal
enough, is that we all have this 'other self' that is angry with
us, because we have 'abandoned it' - when the rational
hemisphere gained ascendancy. It rants and raves and
pulls out all the stops, even tapping EM energy when
it can from earthquake faults, UAP, etc, to try and get
our attention by materializing UFOs and what not..

it used to materialize folk tale and religious stuff more..

Any shamanic/liminal person who does his/her work right
is in contact with this 'cranky crazy self' and all this stuff
is far less of a mystery than people think.

It all started happening after the events of 'the fall' as
detailed in the other book; that is when the 'so-called
breakdown of the bicameral mind' occurred.

Kev

I read Julian Jaynes' book years ago so mention of the breakdown of the bicameral mind piques my interest. Perhaps you'd like to expand on the breakdown of the bicameral mind as you see it fitting into liminality/UFOS. Thanks for bringing this up.

originally posted by: Erno86
"Non-physical hypothesis" ---- You'll have to figure in TELEPATHY of course...but that's just one small slice of the pie in relation to the UFO enigma.

Sure. How do you see that fitting in? For what purpose or agenda do you think we are being sent messages telepathically?

originally posted by: LiveForever8
Aa a few people have mentioned already, Terence McKenna presents my favourite hypothesis on the UFO phenomenon.

We are part of a symbiotic relationship with something which disguises itself as an extra-terrestrial invasion so as not to alarm us.
-Terrence McKenna

But it does alarm us--greatly.

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

What would be the biological advantage of .....a hard wired delusion? Is it as simple as the best story tellers got the girl?

Great question.

I think we have to distinguish between myths and archetypes. Myths are conscious creations; archetypes are not. As you probably know, Jung argued that myths are made up of archetypes, or somehow generated by them (he was never very easy to understand). So you'd have to ask what evolutionary advantage an archetype possesses. And an archetype is not a delusion; it's an aspect of reality, of life represented as a character or symbol of some sort.

But myths, as I said, are supposed to be made of archetypes. Hardcore Jungians will insist that all culture is; I'm not so sure, though I believe they play their role in all human creations. So what is this 'modern myth of things seen in the sky'? Is it some ancient myth in twentieth-century costume? Pixies turned to aliens, as earlier proposed? Devils turned to slit-eyed Reptilians? There are many myths in play here, as far as I can see, not just one. Before aliens abducted people, fairies did. Before there were flying saucers, there were apparitions of angels and Holy Virgins in the sky. You can draw comparisons like that endlessly. It's a tangled web.

Looking at it from my point of view, the question to be asked would be, 'What evolutionary advantage is conferred by the complex of instinctive behaviour that generates or projects the archetype?' Sadly, I don't feel qualified to answer it.

a reply to: Tangerine

It's very simple.

"Primitive man" stretching to "pagan man" used their brain
in a different way than "post fall" "modern man".

They were more like animals and didn't block out 95% of their
environmental stimuli. There's a scientific term for it.. you
know.. if a train goes by your house daily at noon, eventually
you rarely hear it any longer.

Well, after monotheism destroyed the beautiful Earth, which
was due to the Sahara region drying up (read the 'Fall'),

the 'modern rational' (asshole) mind took over, due to the dog
eat dog survival situation.

What mystics and writers like Brad Steiger, Keel, Vallee call
'the unconscious intelligence' or 'the trickster', etc. was in
fact a large part of the human brain/mind/culture and
RELATIONSHIP with electromagnetic and geomagnetic
forces ---- BEFORE the 'fall'.

So that part of us, which under certain circumstances can
manipulate EM fields strongly enough to cause so-called
paranormal / UFO type effects is VERY annoyed with us
(humans) for abandoning our relationship with 'it',
'post fall'. (fall of the neolithic/pagan way of life).

So it acts out trying to get our attention.. tries to
'materialize itself' in the world, so that we have to
see it and deal with it.. and stop ignoring it.

It's just that simple.

I wish someone would put together the other 30%
of the picture and write about it so that I don't
have to.

I do have 2500 words that Brad Steiger asked me to
write for his new book coming out, which discusses
a tangental part of this subject. It will be out
by October.

Kev

Have you ever conjectured as to why those "haunting" things happened to you as a child?

a reply to: lostgirl

Yes I have, but I can't see any reason for it at all.

Also, did you have any connection to the military? Because in my reading, I've found that most people who experienced 'stuff' as children either had relatives in the service or lived near military bases..

My dad was in the Navy during WWII but he was out long before I was born in the '50s, and my oldest son was Army intel. I never lived on or near any military bases. It's a mystery to me why I was picked on, maybe I was just vulnerable at that time. I was certainly terrified. Back in those days we didn't talk about things we just held it all in. My mom struggled for years with drugs (prescription) and she would mumble under her breath about dad but he never talked about anything of a personal nature. So I suffered silently, that's how I was raised. I think that made it worse, and easier for me to be victimized by it.

Sorry to get off topic, but more on topic and also related to this, I just happened to think about one specific event that happened when I was something like 5-7 years old. I remember sitting on my side porch steps and just looking down at my leg. There was a pinkish scooped out area of raw flesh mid right thigh. It wasn't bleeding and I don't remember there being any pain, but it was raw looking. About the size of a large pea. I just sort of found myself there looking down at it with no memory of how I got there or what I was doing. I didn't say anything about it of course, but I still have a scar on my thigh. It feels hollow underneath as if a flap of skin just grew over the hole but it never filled in. Kind of white looking too. Have no idea what that was all about either.

The last thing I remember before that was being chased around by some teenagers who came into the yard my sister and I were playing in. They just came in across a tall field of grass beating on pots and pans and singing some song I don't remember right now, maybe America the Beautiful or something like that. They chased us around and said that they were doctors and needed to check out our rear ends. My sister wouldn't give in but fought like a tigress but I wasn't so brave, I just stood there and let them pull my pants down and check me out. I don't remember anything after that except sitting on the side porch steps looking down at my leg. I often wonder if the whole memory was just something my mind made up to try to deal with something that I couldn't handle at the time but I am afraid to poke at those memories too much.

I know how much that all sounds like some kind of 'abduction' experience, but I don't mean to suggest such a thing at all. In fact, I don't believe that anything like that happened, but if you think about it, say I went to a hypnotist and this hypnotist was a true believer in ET being responsible for these things, it's easy to see how I could be led to believe that explanation and voila, another alien abductee.

a reply to: Astyanax

'What evolutionary advantage is conferred by the complex of instinctive behaviour that generates or projects the archetype?' Sadly, I don't feel qualified to answer it.

Stories allow us to compare ourselves to others, sometimes archetypal others, by giving us a field within which to exercise Theory of Mind reasoning.

Stories function as problem solving guides, or maybe archetypal topographies that we can compare our own maps to.

We are in a way able to "couple" with the protagonist of a story neurologically and learn from experiencing their story wioth them.

The Role of the Theory-of-Mind Cortical Network in the Comprehension of Narratives

a reply to: Bybyots

I wonder. It sounds to me as if you could boil all that down to 'we can learn from stories'. Well, of course we can, though we don't always learn things that are good for us.

a reply to: Tangerine

Hey tangerine...

Humans have a problem with terminology. Our lexicon is limiting. This is a big part of why debates dont always end.
What is the difference between magic and divinity? physical and metaphysical? normal and paranormal? myth and logic? etc etc etc.....

Arthur C Clarke once said "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"... I say the same goes for all those above topics that you deem appropriate for discussion since it is not ET.

You see.... you have already categorized the topic of discussion (in this case UFO's) in to 2 optional outcomes - ET and non ET related hypotheses. All im saying is, what if the UFO's in question dont actually apply to those rules?

I guess what i should be asking is - Into which category does 'divinity' fall? ET or non-ET? Maybe its more on the multidimensional side... so what does that have to do with the terrestrial atmosphere of planet Earth? In fact, what does any of this have to do with the Earth's atmosphere?

P.S. the nature of what im talking about theoretically is hard for the mind to fathom, hence our limited human grammar... basically, its harder to explain in words, than it is to think it. so sorry if some of what i write doesnt make sense.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Tangerine

It's very simple.

"Primitive man" stretching to "pagan man" used their brain
in a different way than "post fall" "modern man".

They were more like animals and didn't block out 95% of their
environmental stimuli. There's a scientific term for it.. you
know.. if a train goes by your house daily at noon, eventually
you rarely hear it any longer.

Well, after monotheism destroyed the beautiful Earth, which
was due to the Sahara region drying up (read the 'Fall'),

the 'modern rational' (asshole) mind took over, due to the dog
eat dog survival situation.

What mystics and writers like Brad Steiger, Keel, Vallee call
'the unconscious intelligence' or 'the trickster', etc. was in
fact a large part of the human brain/mind/culture and
RELATIONSHIP with electromagnetic and geomagnetic
forces ---- BEFORE the 'fall'.

So that part of us, which under certain circumstances can
manipulate EM fields strongly enough to cause so-called
paranormal / UFO type effects is VERY annoyed with us
(humans) for abandoning our relationship with 'it',
'post fall'. (fall of the neolithic/pagan way of life).

So it acts out trying to get our attention.. tries to
'materialize itself' in the world, so that we have to
see it and deal with it.. and stop ignoring it.

It's just that simple.

I wish someone would put together the other 30%
of the picture and write about it so that I don't
have to.

I do have 2500 words that Brad Steiger asked me to
write for his new book coming out, which discusses
a tangental part of this subject. It will be out
by October.

Kev

Thank you for a far more succinct explanation of the breakdown of the bicameral mind than I could have managed. Patrick Harpur also argues that the daimonic realm is trying to get our attention. In the modern world, that pretty much requires a slap in the face. I look forward to reading your contribution to Brad Steiger's book. Do remind us when it is released.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: ZetaRediculian

...
Looking at it from my point of view, the question to be asked would be, 'What evolutionary advantage is conferred by the complex of instinctive behaviour that generates or projects the archetype?' Sadly, I don't feel qualified to answer it.

Stepping slightly outside of Jung for a minute, is it possible that something is manipulating or simulating these archetypes for whatever agenda?

originally posted by: Bybyots
a reply to: Astyanax

'What evolutionary advantage is conferred by the complex of instinctive behaviour that generates or projects the archetype?' Sadly, I don't feel qualified to answer it.

Stories allow us to compare ourselves to others, sometimes archetypal others, by giving us a field within which to exercise Theory of Mind reasoning.

Stories function as problem solving guides, or maybe archetypal topographies that we can compare our own maps to.

We are in a way able to "couple" with the protagonist of a story neurologically and learn from experiencing their story wioth them.

The Role of the Theory-of-Mind Cortical Network in the Comprehension of Narratives

But why do we need to learn the same thing over and over thousands of times?

a reply to: Tangerine

We don't actually 'learn anything'.

We keep making the same mistakes endlessly,
only since we have the same basic neurology
as any other human, we can discuss our failures
and understand each other.

Only if humans can return to relatively 'unlimited'
and easily obtainable resources (like 'pre-fall')
can the cycle of madness end.

Or we go extinct, probably by creating AI which
replaces us.

We are victims of our environment; and if we
destroy our environment, we destroy ourselves.

Sorry.

Kev

a reply to: Tangerine

Actually...

Human brains are like analog electro-chemical computers,
which are networked through 'the unconscious mind'.

WE are our OWN demons.

There are vast collectives of electromagnetic critters
out there, most of which have been created by unconscious
human activity.

For example if your religion believes in demons and hell,
then, in concert with others, (under the right conditions
anyway) you create those demons and hell, which then
torment you.

Most people don't fantasize about unicorns and faeries
any more.. which is too bad.

So we are plagued with demons and 'evil aliens' who
abduct us and anally probe us.

Humans have failed to tell themselves good stories..
that's the tragedy of this species.

Are there 'real' beings out there besides us? I plead
the 5th on that.. I don't want to feed back into the
control loop any more than I already have.

Kev

a reply to: Tangerine

I think you’re referring to what they call Ultraterrestrails from another dimension rather than beings from other worlds in space

There’s an old spiritual maxim: Speak to people according to their understanding

This whole ET, UT reality may be including such a maxim


SO we see beings and flying objects within our personal experiential reality


MAYBE


Strange, the other day I was writing a short few words on Phillip Corso

Inside my kitchen, very far away from where I was writing, some objects( by themselves) flew out of my kitchen cabinet onto the floor. I, with a bit of trepidation, went to the kitchen and saw a bowl and a saucer on the floor!

The bowl was cracked and the crack was pretty perfect.

I had to go to Google to figure out what it might be and it turns out it is either an antenna or

A mushroom cloud

That’s a true story

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: Tangerine

Hey tangerine...

Humans have a problem with terminology. Our lexicon is limiting. This is a big part of why debates dont always end.
What is the difference between magic and divinity? physical and metaphysical? normal and paranormal? myth and logic? etc etc etc.....

Arthur C Clarke once said "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"... I say the same goes for all those above topics that you deem appropriate for discussion since it is not ET.

You see.... you have already categorized the topic of discussion (in this case UFO's) in to 2 optional outcomes - ET and non ET related hypotheses. All im saying is, what if the UFO's in question dont actually apply to those rules?

I guess what i should be asking is - Into which category does 'divinity' fall? ET or non-ET? Maybe its more on the multidimensional side... so what does that have to do with the terrestrial atmosphere of planet Earth? In fact, what does any of this have to do with the Earth's atmosphere?

P.S. the nature of what im talking about theoretically is hard for the mind to fathom, hence our limited human grammar... basically, its harder to explain in words, than it is to think it. so sorry if some of what i write doesnt make sense.

It does make sense but I agree that our limited human grammar makes it more difficult to explain in words than it is to think. Spoken and written language is very limiting. I take your point that the "magical" topics I've selected for this thread may be indistinguishable from advanced technology but I've chosen to move out of the ET rut because it invites the same low-level literalist conversation loops that we commonly see. It's not that it couldn't move beyond that, it's that it doesn't.

Divinity is a designation and, as such, I suppose we could designate anything divine. I lean toward multi-dimensional hypotheses in general so I'm happy to put it there. I'm not sure what you mean by the Earth's atmosphere. If you mean it in a non-literal sense, anything we perceive or imagine has something to do with us.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Tangerine

We don't actually 'learn anything'.

We keep making the same mistakes endlessly,
only since we have the same basic neurology
as any other human, we can discuss our failures
and understand each other.

Only if humans can return to relatively 'unlimited'
and easily obtainable resources (like 'pre-fall')
can the cycle of madness end.

Or we go extinct, probably by creating AI which
replaces us.

We are victims of our environment; and if we
destroy our environment, we destroy ourselves.

Sorry.

Kev

I think I understand the sense in which you mean we don't learn anything but we have learned to perpetuate this madness. Does that serve the interests of someone or something other than our pitifully deluded selves?

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Tangerine

Actually...

Human brains are like analog electro-chemical computers,
which are networked through 'the unconscious mind'.

WE are our OWN demons.

There are vast collectives of electromagnetic critters
out there, most of which have been created by unconscious
human activity.

For example if your religion believes in demons and hell,
then, in concert with others, (under the right conditions
anyway) you create those demons and hell, which then
torment you.

Most people don't fantasize about unicorns and faeries
any more.. which is too bad.

So we are plagued with demons and 'evil aliens' who
abduct us and anally probe us.

Humans have failed to tell themselves good stories..
that's the tragedy of this species.

Are there 'real' beings out there besides us? I plead
the 5th on that.. I don't want to feed back into the
control loop any more than I already have.

Kev

What practical advice would you give people who want to tell themselves good stories to break this cycle of madness?

Yes, I get what you mean about not wanting to feed into the control loop. Many of us who have gone down this path of exploration have danced with the Trickster. People who recommend it haven't been there.

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: Tangerine

I think you’re referring to what they call Ultraterrestrails from another dimension rather than beings from other worlds in space

There’s an old spiritual maxim: Speak to people according to their understanding

This whole ET, UT reality may be including such a maxim


SO we see beings and flying objects within our personal experiential reality


MAYBE


Strange, the other day I was writing a short few words on Phillip Corso

Inside my kitchen, very far away from where I was writing, some objects( by themselves) flew out of my kitchen cabinet onto the floor. I, with a bit of trepidation, went to the kitchen and saw a bowl and a saucer on the floor!

The bowl was cracked and the crack was pretty perfect.

I had to go to Google to figure out what it might be and it turns out it is either an antenna or

A mushroom cloud

That’s a true story

I believe it.

Yes, ultraterrestrials is a good term. I was trying to be careful not to create a box that was too limiting while intentionally excluding a few things.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Tangerine

It's very simple.

"Primitive man" stretching to "pagan man" used their brain
in a different way than "post fall" "modern man".

They were more like animals and didn't block out 95% of their
environmental stimuli. There's a scientific term for it.. you
know.. if a train goes by your house daily at noon, eventually
you rarely hear it any longer.

Well, after monotheism destroyed the beautiful Earth, which
was due to the Sahara region drying up (read the 'Fall'),

the 'modern rational' (asshole) mind took over, due to the dog
eat dog survival situation.

What mystics and writers like Brad Steiger, Keel, Vallee call
'the unconscious intelligence' or 'the trickster', etc. was in
fact a large part of the human brain/mind/culture and
RELATIONSHIP with electromagnetic and geomagnetic
forces ---- BEFORE the 'fall'.

So that part of us, which under certain circumstances can
manipulate EM fields strongly enough to cause so-called
paranormal / UFO type effects is VERY annoyed with us
(humans) for abandoning our relationship with 'it',
'post fall'. (fall of the neolithic/pagan way of life).

So it acts out trying to get our attention.. tries to
'materialize itself' in the world, so that we have to
see it and deal with it.. and stop ignoring it.

It's just that simple.

I wish someone would put together the other 30%
of the picture and write about it so that I don't
have to.

I do have 2500 words that Brad Steiger asked me to
write for his new book coming out, which discusses
a tangental part of this subject. It will be out
by October.

Kev

Thank you for a far more succinct explanation of the breakdown of the bicameral mind than I could have managed. Patrick Harpur also argues that the daimonic realm is trying to get our attention. In the modern world, that pretty much requires a slap in the face. I look forward to reading your contribution to Brad Steiger's book. Do remind us when it is released.

That was also part of Jung's theory. The UFOs represented the other portion of our psyche trying to break through as we aren't integrated anymore. His premise was that the more sober minded non-spiritual people were most likely to have this happen though it doesn't seem like that has held true.