Non-Extraterrestrial UFO Hypotheses

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: Tangerine

I'm referring to my own personal experience, what more denotes life?

Nothing more. Tell us about it.

a reply to: Tangerine

No he was glorifying jungs position, and applying it to mythology but reasonably what part of the collective would be tempted to destroy and or harm the collective? That's counter intuitive unless you believe humans have a self destruct? These archetypes are primitive, innate,possibly genetic.With such an
Exploit your logically asked, who benifits;and certainly its not the mind of man kind? Thats rather flat earth society and dense

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: Tangerine

I'm referring to my own personal experience, what more denotes life?

Nothing more. Tell us about it.

OK will do, my first experience with these #ers was at the age of five. My brother was visiting my G ma and it was hard to sleep we had bunk beds . So I'm laying there alone awake,reflecting,and I am over come with this itching feeling to look out my bedroom window(which is on the first floor in our back yard)

After watching strange lights and the blinds sway, and dealing with the ominous pressure of opening the blinds , I do. And WTF do I see a #en short grey skinned hugged black eyed alien grey staring right back at me. Never herd of them #s but I knew what it was and ran,light speed to my parents room. That's the first experience the seconded still makes my hair stand and happens 6 years ago in my early 20s.

Great topic!

I have been researching and investigating the not-so-physical aspect of the UFO phenomena and other paranormal phenomena for about 10 years now. My interest truly began after an encounter my ex-fiancee and I had during a total lunar eclipse in the fall of 2004. Anywhere I post this story it is not taken seriously, but hopefully those here can at least remain open to it. It was real enough that I have been searching for answers for the past 10 years.

On a lark, my then fiancee and I decided to attempt to conjure/contact elves. We were dabbling pagans then, we are not now.

We gathered together some simple items and drove off into the State Forest. We set-up a ritual circle and did what we were supposed to do and called for the elves, asking them to come and join us. To both of our amazement "something" (many somethings) answered us and came and joined us. We never "saw" them, only heard them clear as daylight. It actually scared the crap out of both of us. I wrote a detailed description of the events and had my now "ex" do the same. There is more to the story, but for now I'll only state what I have.

Ever since that experience I have been interested in the elf and faerie phenomena, which only naturally led me to UFOs. I had never seen a UFO until last summer (again with a girlfriend). I am convinced there is a connection between these two phenomena, dimensions, and consciousness. I think all of the alternative theories for UFOs have something to bring to the table, but no one has quite got it figured out.

I think we are dealing with otherworldly non-physical (at least according to our understanding) beings here. The elementals of old, perhaps? In a panpsychic world, all things would have some level of consciousness - I think this is where my research is landing me.

And just to add some food for thought... Angels, elves, djinn, faeries, and even gods have all had serious associations with trees. Even UFOs tend to be described sometimes gliding across treetops and making them move, etc. The plant kingdom and even fungi kingdom have been around for a really long time. If people claim they can astral project...Well, you get the point!

I think consciousness is a lot larger of a thing than anyone is prepared to accept. If everything which exists must necessarily also contain consciousness, then the universe could be a very strange and interesting place indeed.

You cannot, through logic, conclude that "something can come from nothing." So what about consciousness? What if "I think therefore I am" does not create a duality problem but spells out the necessity for both to exist in order for anything to exist, right there in plain text?

a reply to: TechniXcality

What does your gut tell you it was (ie. the nature of it)? Has your feeling about what it was changed over the years?

I am firmly in the interdimensional alien camp. I don't think these are nuts and bolts craft coming from a planet far away. The book that sealed the deal for me was Rick Strassman's '___' The Spirit Molecule and his subject's reports. It is just too much coincidence. Vallee, Jung, Terence McKenna, they have to be on the right track as opposed to those more traditional theorists.

I think the phenomena has always been happening and our culture provides the lens through which we experience and describe it. Fairies = Aliens = '___' self transforming machine elves.

P.S. This thread has the best collection of avatars.

originally posted by: HillbillyHippie1
Great topic!

I have been researching and investigating the not-so-physical aspect of the UFO phenomena and other paranormal phenomena for about 10 years now. My interest truly began after an encounter my ex-fiancee and I had during a total lunar eclipse in the fall of 2004. Anywhere I post this story it is not taken seriously, but hopefully those here can at least remain open to it. It was real enough that I have been searching for answers for the past 10 years.

On a lark, my then fiancee and I decided to attempt to conjure/contact elves. We were dabbling pagans then, we are not now.

We gathered together some simple items and drove off into the State Forest. We set-up a ritual circle and did what we were supposed to do and called for the elves, asking them to come and join us. To both of our amazement "something" (many somethings) answered us and came and joined us. We never "saw" them, only heard them clear as daylight. It actually scared the crap out of both of us. I wrote a detailed description of the events and had my now "ex" do the same. There is more to the story, but for now I'll only state what I have.

Ever since that experience I have been interested in the elf and faerie phenomena, which only naturally led me to UFOs. I had never seen a UFO until last summer (again with a girlfriend). I am convinced there is a connection between these two phenomena, dimensions, and consciousness. I think all of the alternative theories for UFOs have something to bring to the table, but no one has quite got it figured out.

I think we are dealing with otherworldly non-physical (at least according to our understanding) beings here. The elementals of old, perhaps? In a panpsychic world, all things would have some level of consciousness - I think this is where my research is landing me.

And just to add some food for thought... Angels, elves, djinn, faeries, and even gods have all had serious associations with trees. Even UFOs tend to be described sometimes gliding across treetops and making them move, etc. The plant kingdom and even fungi kingdom have been around for a really long time. If people claim they can astral project...Well, you get the point!

I think consciousness is a lot larger of a thing than anyone is prepared to accept. If everything which exists must necessarily also contain consciousness, then the universe could be a very strange and interesting place indeed.

You cannot, through logic, conclude that "something can come from nothing." So what about consciousness? What if "I think therefore I am" does not create a duality problem but spells out the necessity for both to exist in order for anything to exist, right there in plain text?

Very interesting. There's something about your experience in the woods that rings true. In think you've stumbled across a group of people who take these sorts of experiences seriously. A friend of mine swore that he pulled into his driveway (he lives in a rural area) late one night and the headlights of his car illuminated "elves" playing in his apple tree. He was so taken aback that he went directly into his house and didn't pause to watch. He said he felt that he wasn't supposed to have seen them but as long as he pretended he hadn't, everything would be OK.

I like your notion that in a panpsychic world, all things would have some level of consciousness.

Can you expand on the association between trees and angels, elves, djinn, faeries, gods and UFOs? It's very true that the plant kingdom has been around a very long time. It's something we tend to overlook.

Perhaps your thoughts about consciousness are akin to the Hermetic principle: The ALL is Mind; The Universe is Mental.

a reply to: Tangerine

Would be nice if you would offer a little more meat to the thread, instead of just bread about the subject. I understand the context and where the thread wants to go about Ufos being non-terrestrial, trying to understand there very nature, and its ok if you want to keep some notes to yourself and all. I mean, magicians never reveal there secrets right, I mean that's what usually get associated with very ghostly group of Jack O lanterns, or some silvery, singular white version of Satan, or a dark Baphomet for that matter, hell he was pretty popular a few years ago.

I see this, and I saw that.

Buts that all folklore and gossip really.

You could try looking into inter/extra dimensionals, what ever the real difference between the two is, but the main problem with that is that were not sure as to how space and time works, dimensions and quantum entanglement too.

As for a control system, well wouldn't time it self be just that?

originally posted by: entermemo


I am firmly in the interdimensional alien camp. I don't think these are nuts and bolts craft coming from a planet far away. The book that sealed the deal for me was Rick Strassman's '___' The Spirit Molecule and his subject's reports. It is just too much coincidence. Vallee, Jung, Terence McKenna, they have to be on the right track as opposed to those more traditional theorists.

I think the phenomena has always been happening and our culture provides the lens through which we experience and describe it. Fairies = Aliens = '___' self transforming machine elves.

P.S. This thread has the best collection of avatars.

I suspect that you're right about the extant culture providing the lens through which people experience and describe these beings/events. This brings up the question of whether individual's experiences have changed over their lifetimes. Wouldn't the paranormal experiences of people who have immersed themselves in other cultures change? Has anyone experienced or studied this?

originally posted by: Specimen
a reply to: Tangerine

Would be nice if you would offer a little more meat to the thread, instead of just bread about the subject. I understand the context and where the thread wants to go about Ufos being non-terrestrial, trying to understand there very nature, and its ok if you want to keep some notes to yourself and all. I mean, magicians never reveal there secrets right, I mean that's what usually get associated with very ghostly group of Jack O lanterns, or some silvery, singular white version of Satan, or a dark Baphomet for that matter, hell he was pretty popular a few years ago.

I see this, and I saw that.

Buts that all folklore and gossip really.

You could try looking into inter/extra dimensionals, what ever the real difference between the two is, but the main problem with that is that were not sure as to how space and time works, dimensions and quantum entanglement too.

As for a control system, well wouldn't time it self be just that?

Because the thread is new, I thought I would just act as a facilitator, at least initially, to see where it goes. These conversations tend to have lives of their own (that's a topic!) and I don't want to discourage valuable input and fresh approaches from new participants by plunging into the deep end before everyone's gotten their toes wet. I don't object to others plunging into the deep end, though.

Are we, ourselves, multi-dimensional by nature or are we fixed in one dimension? Certainly, the illusion of a time is a control system of sorts, but I guess it depends on what you mean by control system. Is the control system purely illusion? Is it purely external? Is it external in origin but intended to manipulate us? Are we the controllers or are we being controlled, perhaps by inter- or intra-dimensional beings?

It seems that many people's take on UFOs and, for lack of a better word, paranormal entities is that they have intent to mold and control us. If I see a deer or bear in the woods, I don't perceive that their intent is to control me or interact with me in any way despite the fact that I think of them as individual beings and never refer to one of them as an it. If I encounter a dog or a human, I sometimes perceive that they are trying to control me -- usually in a pretty benign way (ie. "Like me". "Pet me". "Leave me alone.") I'm pretty sure they perceive that I'm trying to do the same to them. Dogs, in particular, seem to pick up on "vibes". When it comes to paranormal entities, most people seem to interpret the encounter as initiated by the paranormal entity and thus, there is an intent to control in some way. This is frightening enough, but the notion that "they" can control us through dreams and archetypes seems even more disturbing. Perhaps the tendency to perceive these entities as literal physical beings is a coping mechanism on our part. I may be on guard or even afraid when I encounter a bear but at least I know what I'm dealing with. We're used to dealing with physical "reality" so perhaps, as a defense mechanism, we misinterpret more amorphous experiences. Perhaps our poor interpretation and perception skills make us especially vulnerable to manipulation. If an interdimensional entity wished to control our thoughts and behavior and wished to control the thoughts and behavior of dogs, how would the entity's technique differ?

What about UFOs with photos, videos, radar tracks. Some appear to be physical objects which emit visible light and cause radar and visible light to bounce off them. UFOs as some kind of human psychic projection? Then why doesn't Godzilla appear in Japan. There could be various types, some the traditional physical objects and some something else like suggested in the thread. And advanced technology could enable capabilities such as invisibility in the human visible spectrum, enabling some to disappear.
Humans have observed strange lights in the sky for a very long time, not just after 1947, they just didn't use the term UFO.

originally posted by: JimTSpock
What about UFOs with photos, videos, radar tracks. Some appear to be physical objects which emit visible light and cause radar and visible light to bounce off them. UFOs as some kind of human psychic projection? Then why doesn't Godzilla appear in Japan. There could be various types, some the traditional physical objects and some something else like suggested in the thread. And advanced technology could enable capabilities such as invisibility in the human visible spectrum, enabling some to disappear.
Humans have observed strange lights in the sky for a very long time, not just after 1947, they just didn't use the term UFO.

Entirely possible, but this thread is devoted to discussing the non-physical hypotheses. You're right, humans have observed strange lights in the sky for a long time and have reported encounters with strange entities, too--and we still don't know what they are. Ideas abound.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I have an offer from a major celebrity in this field to
endorse 'my book' if I write it

I sort of "crashed" the MUFON pow wow this past summer. I convinced my wife to drop in as we drove past the hotel where it was being hosted. I was like oooo! there's Linda Moulton Howe! and she was like "who?" Yeah, I wouldn't know one of those Kardashian "major celebrity" girls either from any other stripper I guess.

Looks like you can download The Fall for free? But you have to sign up.

a reply to: Tangerine

Dimensional a possibility, but I would be thinking that it would lead to inter-dimensional where as still bound to reality but could probably toy with it somehow, like technology that could allow it to pass through walls, or even teleportation whereas it would probably needs to be connected at to points over a distance but are still flesh and blood. Or even have a better knowledge at harnessing energy like dark energy for example.

Time could probably both external and internal, where the external could just be backdrop scenery, and we are the by products of it, while internally, our thoughts and decisions are still bound by time. Its 50-50.

Dogs, cats, and a lot of other animals can pick a lot of things, like how a pack of wolves can smell fear, where it just pheromones being released by the body. Then theres scenarios where large groups of anima migrate, and some kind of event happens like a small earthquake. Also dogs, cats, and parrots are heavily influenced by us humans. Also male deer during mating season are more likely to kill then bears.

Thats the thing with most humans though, is its the feeling of being control and secure. A madman or warrior won't fear what he kill with their weapon, while he would be afraid of something that their weapon would have on an enermy with no effect. However, that warrior or madman ever finds a way to hurt something or someone, they would take the chance. Like dealing with ghosts in exorcisms for example.

As for something extra, intra, or even inter, wanted to control something, there could be different methods involved. Where some could just be basic bait and making, gambling predictions, or to the possibility of a Darth Vader force choke, but that would be heavily physical. More like the idea Voodoo witch craft with dolls, but Darth Vaders a powerhouse in that respect, but can the dead really touch the living?

Mental domination could work like hacking, where one would force their way if they knew how, but would it be neurological, or done through some type of communication, like a prank caller telling you your refrigerators running, and the more you pick up, the more giggles the caller gets. However, some of these dominating perceived entities could be disorders, where just summed up thoughts accumulating in the back of the mind, and somehow gets triggered.

a reply to: JimTSpock

UFOs as some kind of human psychic projection? Then why doesn't Godzilla appear in Japan.

The thing with Godzilla is that he leaves a lot of evidence when he shows up. Thousands usually die and he leaves a string of dead giant monsters in his wake that take years to clean up. So there is no mistaking Godzilla. UFOs and aliens are fleeting, neither here nor there and are on that "periphery" of being real. That's where the magic is. We all know Godzilla is a fantasy but he is no less an archetype than aliens.

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

My point was if UFOs are some kind of human psychic projection then why doesn't something else appear like Godzilla? And you are correct Godzilla so far has failed to materialize and kill Japan lol.

IF in fact some UFOs are ET craft with advanced technology and capability which we don't understand, then this is about what I would expect. Like a monkey or caveman trying to catch a jet fighter. No chance. We can't catch a suspect UFO and bring it to the lab for examination, we don't have the means to. Maybe it's difficult because it's the only area where we are not the most intelligent technologically advanced beings, they are. Like monkeys don't capture us and study us, we capture them and do experiments on them and have all the control of the situation.

originally posted by: JimTSpock
a reply to: ZetaRediculian

My point was if UFOs are some kind of human psychic projection then why doesn't something else appear like Godzilla? And you are correct Godzilla so far has failed to materialize and kill Japan lol.

IF in fact some UFOs are ET craft with advanced technology and capability which we don't understand, then this is about what I would expect. Like a monkey or caveman trying to catch a jet fighter. No chance. We can't catch a suspect UFO and bring it to the lab for examination, we don't have the means to. Maybe it's difficult because it's the only area where we are not the most intelligent technologically advanced beings, they are. Like monkeys don't capture us and study us, we capture them and do experiments on them and have all the control of the situation.

This is not the thread for discussing ETs. That's been made perfectly and repeatedly clear. Please respect that. It's not like there's a shortage of threads where discussion is welcome.

a reply to: JimTSpock

My point was if UFOs are some kind of human psychic projection then why doesn't something else appear like Godzilla?

I think J. Allen Hynek brought up something like "why don't people hallucinate pink elephants in the sky?" Well if we did, we would know right away that what we saw was a hallucination. Who is going to tell their friends about that? What we are talking about is something that we can't quite make out. "Something" is really there it seems. Sometimes we find out that what was seen turns out to be something explainable. But does that make the experience any less real or less profound? Lets say this "something" turns out to be ET, we still have the same experience and perceptions. There is nothing distinguishing the two. So far ET has not turned up though but it seems like he could. That's the difference.

IF in fact some UFOs are ET craft with advanced technology and capability which we don't understand, then this is about what I would expect.

And that is also the flip side of it! Since that is what is expected then that is what is seen. that is why Godzilla does not appear. We can also expect that is how some extra dimensional thing would act that we don't understand and that is how we would expect some psycho-something to act that there is no name for yet. Its unknown and we don't understand it so it acts how we expect.

a reply to: Tangerine

This is not the thread for discussing ETs.

Damn Non ET disinfo agents!

a reply to: Astyanax

Thanks for the compliment Astyanax, your perspective is one I always pay attention to.

But being a vulgar mechanist myself, I have always been drawn to the idea that myths and the archetypes that form them are a projection of our evolved instincts in action.

Wryly, I aspire to be a 'vulgar mechanist' and find that it's a peak that's narrowly out of reach. I've spent a lot of time studying the evolutionary dynamics of storytelling. Actually, that's inaccurate, I've spent some time studying and a lot of time thinking because it's an area that hasn't been fully explored just yet.

In the light of evolutionary biology, the archetypes and mythic elements might be hard-wired into us at a genetic level. It makes more sense than a speculative outside agency or elusive Intelligence. Certainly folkloric stories of monsters serve the purpose of protecting children from drowning (water monsters) or becoming prey (forest monsters and boundary beasts). Maybe societies expand and parts of them require a 'wolf at the door?' Perhaps social animals will create a source of threat or anxiety when none exists? It's certainly been riffed upon by successful leaders as they play upon that instinct of fear and characterise their opponents as existential threats to *us.*

In spite of feeling secure that science will have all the answers one day, the experience of living has left some liminal features. For example, I've experienced some unusual things over the years that naturally instil an uncertainty. Not to the point of populating my world with a pantheon of magical critters or thinking that the world is run by magic. Not at all. My judgement remains heavily influenced by rational, critical thinking and yet there's also a nagging doubt that something undefined exists at some remove to us.

I'm well aware of the absurdity of this and it's socially embarrassing on an intellectual level. Nevertheless, the idea continues that there is something undiscovered in our reality.

'Mythology rules at a level of our social reality over which normal political and intellectual action has no power.' — Jaques Vallée

Vallee's interest in unusual areas began in the midst of the French UFO wave of 1954. He and his mother reportedly watched an archetypal 'flying saucer' above their local church. Since then, he's become an ambassador for the scientific exploration of whatever constitutes the UFO phenomena. I have one, private question that I would like to ask him.

Many people who've seen such unidentified objects find their perspective on the world shifts out of synch with the rest of society - it's inherently liminal again. It introduces a state of mind that's anticipatory in the sense of a question that will never have an answer. Induced uncertainty? Currently, 'seeing a UFO' is amongst the symptom list for diagnosing a constellation of mental illnesses. Whilst there's no doubting the validity of that inclusion, it rather renders constructive discussion moot in such cases that include more than one witness or single witnesses with no history of psychological disorders.

I'll leave it there before I outstay my welcome. All the best