Numbers Station UVB-76 (AKA MDZhB). Part of the Russian Perimeter System?

a reply to: Darkblade71

Lol.. yes. I couldn't get enough of the speculations. The theories as to what and why the numbers station is for? So I'm glad it was brought back into the light. I almost forgot about it.

originally posted by: tom.farnhill
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

i don't know about fail safe , its more like fail death because if a nuclear war does break out we will all be in danger .

it would take hundreds of years for our planet to recover if ever, hundreds of thousands would die with the fall out
and starvation .

what is the point of fighting a war that no one can win.

lets put all the government people in an arena and let them fight to the death , then shoot the winner .
i think that is the only way we will ever have world peace .

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

No problems at all, thanks for the OP, I believe there is actually more then one Station operating in Russia last I heard but that was about 2 years ago so they may only be operating 1 now, but if I remember the second station was very on & off so god knows if it's deactivated or just in standby mode.

originally posted by: AUSTEOReClassified
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

No problems at all, thanks for the OP, I believe there is actually more then one Station operating in Russia last I heard but that was about 2 years ago so they may only be operating 1 now, but if I remember the second station was very on & off so god knows if it's deactivated or just in standby mode.

I haven't heard a Russian numbers broadcast in a few months. Mostly it's been either spanish or german/dutch, and a lot of english.

Oh and I heard a polish one a few nights ago. I don't record this stuff down or anything, just casual listening. Though, maybe I should start. I wonder what the membership requirements of ENIGMA2000 are.

originally posted by: tom.farnhill
a reply to: Guenter

i know just what you mean , its like when the children are playing in another room and things suddenly go quiet
then you know they are up to some mischief .

Right on! You bitch when they are noisy but worry when it gets "quiet". We seem never to be content, either "with noise" or the "silence".

originally posted by: Guenter

originally posted by: tom.farnhill
a reply to: Guenter

i know just what you mean , its like when the children are playing in another room and things suddenly go quiet
then you know they are up to some mischief .

Right on! You bitch when they are noisy but worry when it gets "quiet". We seem never to be content, either "with noise" or the "silence".

Silence from UVB-76 would be truly terrifying, I think. Especially if The Pip and The Squeaky Wheel went dark as well. I think I'd have a full-blown panic attack.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I just checked out the Enigma 2000 site, i had never heard of it before, but does look like a good start for you as they have a forum, I'm not sure how you could be a member apart from maybe signing up with a yahoo account I guess. I do have a folder list i was given of Stations, Identification, sites, frequencies & times of broadcasts. But usually need to be kept in date every now and then. I will try dig it up again and confirm afew details to add to the discussion.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Perhaps the recent resurgence has something to do with this.
Russia has lost its ability to detect incoming nuclear missiles from space

Russia just lost its early-warning system for detecting ballistic missiles because of delays in the launch of its new "Tundra" advanced early-warning system. According to Russia's Kommersant newspaper, the system was due to replace ageing satellites launched as part of the Oko programme that had already exceeded their expected life span of five to seven years. The system had been beset by technical problems, and in January this year the last two satellites, which were operational for only a few hours each day, finally went offline. The Tundra satellites, designed to be capable of tracking tactical as well as ballistic missiles, were first scheduled for launch in 2013. But technical problems delayed the programme, with its revised launch date in 2014 already having been missed. It is now scheduled to be launched "no earlier than June 2015," according to Kommersant. The loss of geostationary satellites risks weakening Russia's early-warning system for missile launches. Sources at the Russian Ministry of Defence say the loss is being compensated for by radar systems on the ground located in the Kaliningrad, Leningrad, Irkutsk, and Krasnodar regions of the country. However, it is impossible to verify those claims. What we know is that in September last year Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu said the creation of the Unified Space System Tundra was "one of the key areas of nuclear deterrence." The repeated delays to the programme will be an embarrassment for a government that has pledged to boost high-tech industry in Russia and to the minister in particular, who has taken a personal interest in the project.

originally posted by: AUSTEOReClassified
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I just checked out the Enigma 2000 site, i had never heard of it before, but does look like a good start for you as they have a forum, I'm not sure how you could be a member apart from maybe signing up with a yahoo account I guess. I do have a folder list i was given of Stations, Identification, sites, frequencies & times of broadcasts. But usually need to be kept in date every now and then. I will try dig it up again and confirm afew details to add to the discussion.

There's also a primarily Slavic group of Number Station hunters named Pryiom. They have a pretty up to date listing of known stations and their ENIGMA designations.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Cheers I'll check them out and have a good read through they're stuff. Would be good to update myself with the ongoings with what others have discovered. Thanks again.

a reply to: Guenter

my lads are grown up now and with children of their own, and now they have learnt the subtle difference of silence and play noise .

i used to say to the lads when they were misbehaving , stop that or i will pull your ears off joking of coarse,
but i have heard my lads saying the very same thing to their children . the apple does not fall far from the tree ..lol

a reply to: joho99

That could very well be related, thanks for the information! Very telling.

I think that it makes perfect sense for this station to be a rudimentary warning/communications system between Moscow and nuclear launch facilities. Although I would hope, for everyone's sake, that this is not the primary system for detecting a nuclear strike, considering that a technical failure somewhere along the line is much more likely than a coordinated nuclear strike on Russia. In my opinion this system would be used in the event that systems failed. Such a thing occurred during the Cold War, when a nuclear launch facility's systems malfunctioned and said that nuclear missiles were incoming. Protocol would have been for the facility to launch their nuclear missiles in response. So one way of preventing this from occurring is to check the numbers station. But I'm sure everyone can see the problem with such a system...namely that the missiles would have to actually strike before the station went off-line. You would want to launch a retaliatory strike before the missiles hit your country. However, there are nuclear launch sites that are located far away from cities that would be targeted, and these sites are kept as secret as possible precisely so they will not be targeted.

So it is a system that would be useful, although it is primitive. It might be especially useful because of its primitive nature, in the event of some type of technical failure of more complicated systems. That is the best explanation that I have heard anyway. Another potential explanation involves communication with espionage operatives. If you've got agents working in another country, especially when the agent is not under the protection of official cover, official cover meaning they hold a government/diplomatic position such as an embassy worker and thus are immune from prosecution, you need a way to covertly communicate with the agent. Spies have been caught in the past with radio communications equipment, which is somewhat of a giveaway. Anyway, so if the agent can listen to the numbers station they can receive their orders or other information by applying the numbers to a coding system that was setup before they entered the field. This eliminates the need for the agent to make contact with another agent, which is something that could potentially expose them.

So either of these possibilities seems plausible. In fact, there is no reason that the stations couldn't serve a dual purpose. Both of the explanations I discussed above could be carried out with a single broadcast station. The nuclear facilities need not know what the station is saying, only that the station is operational, which means that the actually numbers being broadcast would only have meaning to non-official cover operatives in another European country. Although it would depend on how far such a broadcast could be detected, or the energy and type of the electromagnetic wave being broadcast. If it is not far-reaching then an agent would be located in a nearby country for instance. IF they are used to communicate with field agents at all. It would be a relatively covert system though, but it would also be open to cryptanalysis I suppose.

a reply to: JiggyPotamus

You make some excellent points, especially that it could be a backup system if other missile detection systems malfunction or are taken out by a some other means. The Russians have long had a tradition of having rather rudimentary systems as backups, very simple usually analog things that can function even if all digital means are taken down. A famous example was a Russian defector who brought a fighter jet with him to the United States. The American scientists dissected the aircraft and started laughing when they discovered vacuum tubes instead of transistors in it's components. Well the laughing stopped when they discovered this was a very clever way of protecting the system from EMPs.

The Russians are incredibly resourceful and I wouldn't be surprised in the least to discover that this station is dual use as you suggest.

ETA: Though the cryptoanalysts would have a VERY difficult decrypting any messages transmitted. The "One Time Pad" method of encryption is a nearly unbreakable way to transmit messages to field operatives.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

If you are worried about nuclear war

I would suggest you email Washington pentagon and CIA

And ask them to stop drinking neocon and Zionist koolaid whose policy is now attacking nuclear powers

a reply to: PizzaAnyday505

Respectfully, this thread isn't about your delusions that the U.S. is out to destroy the world. It's about UVB-76 and the Russian Perimeter System. If you have something to add on that topic, I'd be delighted to hear your opinion.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Shortwave radio wouldn't work for submerged submarines. And surfacing at a given time would give away positions. So I think that could be a hiccough in your idea. In fact, to travel through water you need longer wavelength.

Cool idea though.

a reply to: cmdrkeenkid

ELF and SLF radio waves in the transmission range of roughly 3-300 Hz is sufficient enough to penetrate hundreds of meters below the ocean surface, making communication with Ballistic Submarines viable. There was a Russian radio transmission system called ZEVS that could transmit in this range installed at the Kola Peninsula near Murmansk that was noticed by an Antarctic U.S. station in the early 90's. Since The Buzzer and it's sister stations operate in the kHz range, I would image that should the need arise, automatic or manual military communication systems will utilize the ZEVS system to relay orders to missile submarines submerged around the world.

You do make a very keen observation though, only a surfaced submarine can receive and transmit in the kHz range.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

These numbers status don't transmit in VLF out ELF, but in shortwave. I'm not sure what point you're making.

originally posted by: cmdrkeenkid
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

These numbers status don't transmit in VLF out ELF, but in shortwave. I'm not sure what point you're making.

Right, what I'm saying is the stations won't transmit to the Submarines directly, but something (either manual or automatic) will relay orders to the ZEVS station, which then transmits in ELF/SLF to the submerged subs.