Alternative solutions for Welfare, Social Security, Food stamps

So I get caught between the idea of responsibility and a persons role within the community. I understand that in order to change your life that you need to understand what your doing wrong and correct that action. I also believe that there are times that no matter what you do you need to seek help from the community.

I don't think our current social programs really help people get on their feet. They are more like support systems. What we need is to enable individuals to create their own business's. Maybe we could create programs that eliminate taxes on small business's and fund small smaller business's for individuals with no resources rather then pay wealth-fare.

This will eliminate the lazyness from the system. We can then help people get what they need to survive themselves and make their own choices.

Why aren't we doing this as a nation for ourselves?

Stronger communities create stronger people. We need to work together and we need to do it in a way that works.

a reply to: onequestion

S&F for the call for mutual strenght.

Ever heard of crowdfunding?

a reply to: onequestion

Oddly I agree with what you said. Perhaps that would also provide a boost to the economy and get some of the unemployed back to work.

Maybe they should get rid of the welfare workers...that would free up enough cash so that anyone who needs some could simply draw from an automated system every month.....
The few workers who would be needed to deal with special needs could administer those not capable of availing themselves of the support....
Then the welfare workers could get off welfare, get off their fat asses, and do something constructive with their miserable lives....

a reply to: onequestion

Sounds great but how does that really address the underlying employment issues? Small businesses need paying customers, paying customers need jobs to make money to pay small businesses for whatever and so on.

IMO, what we're looking at is the predictable product of globalization, advancements in technology (primarily automation) and the shift in the sources of income for the very wealthy (growth of the finance sector, shift to capital gains, etc) and since none of those things are likely to come to an end, we're going to need to get far more creative than helping people to start small businesses because there are only so many rungs on the ladder.

I'd start this discussion with what are we going to do we do about global wage equalization, skyrocketing income inequality, etc.

First off, I think that aid payments should be needs based and a hand-up. It should not be an all or nothing system like it is today because that disincentivizes people who try to get out of their hole.

I also think that instead of simply disbursing subsidies, the government should make the payments directly to those who need the aid. There should be a requirement to attend budgeting classes, but simply put, the rest of us have to learn how to manage our money, so why should government aid be any different? If we want people on aid to get off of aid, they need to learn how to manage their money anyhow. Besides, they real costs of things ought to serve as an eye-opener. I sometimes wonder how many of those people who pay with their EBT while wearing their fancy acrylic nails and name brand clothing have any idea what the real costs of some things actually are. This way, they might gain an appreciation for it.

Also, if we did the above, we could dramatically cut the federal work force. You don't need nearly as many bureaucrats to administer the subsidies if they are no longer subsidies.

I also think that we should move to get people a means of taking ownership of something as quickly as possible. People value more what they earn for themselves. Perhaps programs where the prospective tenants of a project come together to work to refurbish that project with the end result being part ownership of their unit? Then build schools in partnership with the community of the project. Kids need to sign agreements to work and achieve academically and follow certain rules, and maybe over time, local businesses can come into partnership with the schools to provide internship/apprenticeships to students in order to expose them to both the professional world and a variety of potential trades and future career outlets.

a reply to: theantediluvian

I second this point.

I disagree. I feel the needy should be better educated. There is always around the fact, and there is always a path to happiness, it just depends on what paths you know. Funding education , as Obama has, while funding helathcare, seems to me to be the safest and more steadforth course.

a reply to: onequestion

Workfare.

20 hours a week at the recycle center, daycare, whatever.

At least have some return on the crutch.

a reply to: ChefSlug

The problem is that we've been throwing ever more money at education since we founded the Dept. of Ed back during Carter's admin. Since then, there have been no real measurable gains made for he extra money thrown at it.

Money in and of itself is NOT a solution only a means, and without an end, there is no real productive outcome with the means.

originally posted by: ChefSlug
I disagree. I feel the needy should be better educated. There is always around the fact, and there is always a path to happiness, it just depends on what paths you know. Funding education , as Obama has, while funding helathcare, seems to me to be the safest and more steadforth course.

Yeah,

Only Education that is worth a crap is needed. Educating people with useless skills that does not lead to employment but rather is a jobs program for more teachers (who have useless degrees and can't find any other job) is futile.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

ObamaCare... really, would have been easier to just expand medicade.

originally posted by: ketsuko
First off, I think that aid payments should be needs based and a hand-up. It should not be an all or nothing system like it is today because that disincentivizes people who try to get out of their hole.

I also think that instead of simply disbursing subsidies, the government should make the payments directly to those who need the aid. There should be a requirement to attend budgeting classes, but simply put, the rest of us have to learn how to manage our money, so why should government aid be any different? If we want people on aid to get off of aid, they need to learn how to manage their money anyhow. Besides, they real costs of things ought to serve as an eye-opener. I sometimes wonder how many of those people who pay with their EBT while wearing their fancy acrylic nails and name brand clothing have any idea what the real costs of some things actually are. This way, they might gain an appreciation for it.

Also, if we did the above, we could dramatically cut the federal work force. You don't need nearly as many bureaucrats to administer the subsidies if they are no longer subsidies.

I also think that we should move to get people a means of taking ownership of something as quickly as possible. People value more what they earn for themselves. Perhaps programs where the prospective tenants of a project come together to work to refurbish that project with the end result being part ownership of their unit? Then build schools in partnership with the community of the project. Kids need to sign agreements to work and achieve academically and follow certain rules, and maybe over time, local businesses can come into partnership with the schools to provide internship/apprenticeships to students in order to expose them to both the professional world and a variety of potential trades and future career outlets.

Perhaps the government could take a few budget lessons as well, seeing as it is the biggest borrower and in the hugest debt...?
The entire monetary system is obsolete....it doesn't work anymore because its slanted in favour of the old monied class....
The rest of us get to eat #...

a reply to: onequestion


I once helped a couple get off the welfare system . It didn't require a lot of ingenuity but just helping them find their calling ,so to speak . It worked out great for them and they thanked me many times after for the little push . I also tried to get my family members involved in a joint effort in a business .That was a disaster and really caused more harm then any good . The money I lost was really not the issue but it was the trust that was broken that took it's toll .

I think it may be a difference between people wanting to contribute to a cause and people wanting to take advantage of it .Most of the shared ventures I have been involved with would have been nice to ,just not loose my shirt in the deal . There seems to always be that one person that can throw a wrench into the process that stops the engine from running .

It would seem that even people in the group that cant carry their own weight is not the real problem but the ones that will eventually drop the ball they know how to carry it. Then there is always those ones outside that probably dew to envy , will work hard to see it fail .If you can come up with a winning formula that eliminates big business and Govt then you can expect problems .

Our western civilization has many stories that would make any sane person to scratch their head and ask why that is so .I think it's all about conforming to the status quo what ever flavor of the day may be instead of transforming to a better way .I mean lets face it that if a group does not need Govt and doesn't need police or army's or needs to rush out to buy the newest wig-it it will be rejected and scorned . We as a society are forced to participate in many things we disagree with just to be a part of because this is where we are .

a reply to: onequestion

Okay I can agree with the basic idea,but how about for those of us that had to retire under a disability? I have paid into Social Security since I was 19,now at 55 I have no choice but to draw on it ahead of time due to my auto immune disease. I worked as long as I could and didn't put myself out of work,my company did by refusing to honor my restrictions from my doctor. I was told that I was to TELL my doctor to lift that restriction. The doctor refused due to the seriousness of my condition and I ended up through no fault of my own on disability. This is not an entitlement,this is something I have paid in on for years. So just where do I fit in and others like me,who are truly no longer able to work?

Genocide ,Eugenics and liberal spraying of chemtrails , never going to happen

It never failed before

a reply to: stirling

Well, part of my idea is that we used to have tight knit communities who relied on and helped each other out.

Through working together to refurbish and rebuild a place for themselves, I was hoping you could take a group of people and teach them pride of place through making it their own, construction skills which are basic trade skills, and how to help each other and begin to form community relationships.

Then you make a community school. Hopefully, those community relationships carry over and the parents stay involved with their kids throughout the educational process and they can actually get them through with an education which tragically does not happen for way too many of them.

Then, you pull in the business community which gives them a place to see and explore real world work opportunities at all levels. This goes beyond rapper and sports star and gives them a base to work with and aspire toward.

Of course, you are also going to need some heavy mentoring programs and other things because this is aimed at breaking the cycle of single parent homes and teen pregnancy leading to yet more single parents and poverty and crime.

a reply to: Dimithae

You may be selling yourself short in to where you could fit in . Teaching or at least passing along some of what you learned is very valuable to a group that wants to break free from the system . Plus it would make your contributions as small as they might be rewarding to you .

The best answer that comes to mind IMO after reading all of the above is to repeal
NAFTA.
We can't compete with no regulations, poverty slave wages, etc.

That's OK though, our time will come again, when we are broken and have nothing, then environmental and other regulation laws are repealed, they pay us desperado wages, workers rights eliminated and the water cooler is spiked with stims.

A glorius future where we work 6.5 days per week/12 hours per day at wages that can get you that can of tent dry for your cardboard box. At least it's comfortable at work, despite all the sweating.

Getting back to today, I wonder if my bank account is closer to black, luckily, I pay for overdraft protection.
Hang on, let me think and ponder for a minute.
I work full time.
I pay MONEY to protect myself from the banks POVERTY PENALTY!

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Science fuels innovation and technology.

As a guy in science myself, I find that there are so much misconceptions in this field that proper science education could by itself trigger technological inventions. People have imagination, they just need to couple it with knowledge.

And technological innovation is friend to a more efficient and sustaining society...

a reply to: Dimithae

I'd say in the community like I envision, you are a mentor and teacher. It is your job to help the young learn compassion as well as to pass on your wisdom. You yourself say you are not unwilling to do what you should, you are merely unable. Your work ethic is still there and you can pass that on.